If liberals care more for the little guy, why do conservatives give more to charity?

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jrenz
This probably has a lot to do with the other study which showed overwhelmingly that Republicans are generally happier, and have a more positive outlook on life, than Democrats. When you don't view yourself as a victim of everything in the world, you're probably more likely to be charitable toward others.

Ignorance is bliss, is the explanation. How are democrats supposed to not be concerned with the fact the repubs have been in charge six years and the harm they've caused the nation?

Is it all partisan hackery with you? The DNC is no more what you think it is than the GOP and Bush admin were what the Pubs thought they were getting. The on-going stategy of the 2 major parties is to represent themselves as the only possible choices, and then have power switch back and forth between them every decade or so on rising currents of public discontent, so that the public is always voting in fear and anger against the other guys as opposed to actually for anyone. If you can't see this obvious fact, and the purpose behind the strategy, then by your own logic you must be the most blissful person in the world.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.


 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.



No, but we all chipped in on that school, those roads and bridges, and of course the whole freaking stable society that let you grow up to be such a sheltered selfish minded adult.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jrenz
This probably has a lot to do with the other study which showed overwhelmingly that Republicans are generally happier, and have a more positive outlook on life, than Democrats. When you don't view yourself as a victim of everything in the world, you're probably more likely to be charitable toward others.

Ignorance is bliss, is the explanation. How are democrats supposed to not be concerned with the fact the repubs have been in charge six years and the harm they've caused the nation?

Is it all partisan hackery with you? The DNC is no more what you think it is than the GOP and Bush admin were what the Pubs thought they were getting. The on-going stategy of the 2 major parties is to represent themselves as the only possible choices, and then have power switch back and forth between them every decade or so on rising currents of public discontent, so that the public is always voting in fear and anger against the other guys as opposed to actually for anyone. If you can't see this obvious fact, and the purpose behind the strategy, then by your own logic you must be the most blissful person in the world.



So, all dems are far left fools, yet you are a libertarian whackjob whos party cannot even beat the greens.

Whatever vic, you are a far out there wingnut, far far more then any dems you call socialists luckily you represent noone but yourself and a few other bigmouths pounding away from their their moms basements about how you do not owe the world anything..

Freedum!! rugged induhvidualists! Stop fighting the power and THE MAN/evil socialists already and go take out the trash.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Corbett
Watch what happens to all these "giving" peoples donations if they cant leech it back.
It will dry right up.

So then i guess that "loophole" is there on purpose then eh? It promotes giving!



No it promotes a welfare state for religious institutions with all of our tax monies, if you want a church(s) build your own, not on my dime.

You make it sound as if government money is given to churches. Which is clearly false.

Churches are built from donated by members, not government funds.

Many people don't even itemize their deduction. Hence, there is no "deduction" for charitable contributions.

Even for those who do, most are in the 15% tax bracket. So, there is no way to be "greedy" as far as donating. You're still "out" for 85 cents on every dollar donated.

If we had a tax structure like Europe in the late 70's and early 80's (IIRC) where the tax rates exceeded 100% only then would it actually pay to donate.

Money given to churches basically goes to 3 places:

1) Preacher salary etc. This IS taxable, like in any for-profit business. No diff here.

2) Building the church. Why should you have pay the governemnt to build a church? I see no good reason. Anyway if you did, the cost building would then be depreciated (expensed) like it is for any for-profit business. So, at the end of the day there is no difference (other than perhaps the time value of money).

3) Give away type programs for the poor. I see absolutley no reason why the government should garb part of this. It would essentially be a tax on the por.

BTW: If the give away program goes to a specific family etc (instead of a class of people - think Katrina victims) it IS taxable to that family/person.

Otherwise the Vic v. Steeplerot exchange is most enjoyable.

-----------------------------
As to the original title:
If liberals care more for the little guy, why do conservatives give more to charity?

Responses from those like Craig234 clearly demonstrate that they believe YOUR money should be donated (Raise taxes on the rich - who are all Repubs.). They enjoy making YOU donate and THEM having control (via the government) over how YOUR donation is spent.

Fern

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Kwaipie
I wonder what Cheney's charities were.

Well we know Barbara Bush donated a large sum to her son's company and took a tax deduction for it. Such generosity just humbles me. :laugh:

Not possible unless Jr was running a 501(c)(3) or similar type org. Which I've never heard of.

Got a Link for this assertion?

Fern
 

Caminetto

Senior member
Jul 29, 2001
821
49
91
Doesn't anyone question the findings of this so-called expert?
While I think it's true that conservatives are more likely to tithe 10%, I certainly think there are problems with statements such as "liberals give less than conservatives in every way imaginable, including volunteer hours and donated blood".
I volunteered for 10 years twice a week in a homeless shelter and neither I, nor my fellow volunteers, (100% liberal) were ever asked about political persuasion. (And it was not something I could take off my taxes, so how is this determined)?
When you gave blood did they ask you "conservative or liberal"?
Did he include a liberal?s investments in socially responsible funds rather than better returns with "Phillip Morris".
Way too many problems here!

 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.

So you've gone to private schools and universities your entire life w/o any financial assistance? Did you have parents who were able to afford it or did you have a job at the age of 5 to pay for your private school?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Here you go, USA Today: Barbara tax dodge

Technically legal since the money was laundered as a Katrina donation earmarked for her son's company.

Deductible to her, taxable to him (or his company). Nets out to zero, i.e., no effect. It's the same for salary or other expense paid by for-profit business - wage is deductible by business, taxable to person.

Sounds suspect, but because it nets to zero, not much to be done. If re-classesd as a "gift" from her to him (which is not likley even if he owned 100% of the stock), she would have no tax deduction, the company would have no taxable income - back to a "zero net effect", notwithstanding any possible gift tax ramifications (again unlikely if only because a class of third parties recieved the benefit of free software).

IMHO, this can only be considered "scandalous" by those who lacking sufficient understanding and/or are strongly partisan. Similar to the Harry Reid "land sale" which, notwithstanding the "undue" influence/corruption/favoritism of the re-zoning, seems a normal corporate distribution based upon info available-to-date.

Edit: Thanks for the link

Fern
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: jrenz
This probably has a lot to do with the other study which showed overwhelmingly that Republicans are generally happier, and have a more positive outlook on life, than Democrats. When you don't view yourself as a victim of everything in the world, you're probably more likely to be charitable toward others.

Ignorance is bliss, is the explanation. How are democrats supposed to not be concerned with the fact the repubs have been in charge six years and the harm they've caused the nation?

Is it all partisan hackery with you? The DNC is no more what you think it is than the GOP and Bush admin were what the Pubs thought they were getting. The on-going stategy of the 2 major parties is to represent themselves as the only possible choices, and then have power switch back and forth between them every decade or so on rising currents of public discontent, so that the public is always voting in fear and anger against the other guys as opposed to actually for anyone. If you can't see this obvious fact, and the purpose behind the strategy, then by your own logic you must be the most blissful person in the world.



So, all dems are far left fools, yet you are a libertarian whackjob whos party cannot even beat the greens.

Whatever vic, you are a far out there wingnut, far far more then any dems you call socialists luckily you represent noone but yourself and a few other bigmouths pounding away from their their moms basements about how you do not owe the world anything..

Freedum!! rugged induhvidualists! Stop fighting the power and THE MAN/evil socialists already and go take out the trash.

Where did I say anything like what you portraying here? Oh, that's right, I didn't.

I said that YOU are a left wing tool, and that you are not representative of the democrats or the democratic party.
Once again, you distract with lies whenever the truth about you is revealed.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.

So you've gone to private schools and universities your entire life w/o any financial assistance? Did you have parents who were able to afford it or did you have a job at the age of 5 to pay for your private school?

I always went to public schools, but your argument here doesn't make sense. Being locally funded for the most part, public schools are paid for by the parents of the children who go there. Just because your parents didn't cut the check directly doesn't mean they still didn't pay for it.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.

So you've gone to private schools and universities your entire life w/o any financial assistance? Did you have parents who were able to afford it or did you have a job at the age of 5 to pay for your private school?

Correct, the only financial assistence I have had was through athletic scholarship. Something leechlerot didnt help me attain either.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.

So you've gone to private schools and universities your entire life w/o any financial assistance? Did you have parents who were able to afford it or did you have a job at the age of 5 to pay for your private school?

I always went to public schools, but your argument here doesn't make sense. Being locally funded for the most part, public schools are paid for by the parents of the children who go there. Just because your parents didn't cut the check directly doesn't mean they still didn't pay for it.

Public schools are paid for by the parents of the children who go there as well as everyone else. You don't get to opt out of property taxes if you send your children to private school or if you don't even have any. Basically, public schools survive on subsidies not only of the people who use them. You received the benefit of that.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Genx87

Translation, I wont leech off my family, Ill leech off the rest of society.
Your selfishness showing through again.

Some people see society and community as a family, not just people out to get you.

Guess it depends, if society is filled with people like you who admit to wanting to steal my money for personal gain. Then how can people not think certain aspects of society are out to get them?



Nothing you have or ever earned is due to yourself alone, if you don't like it, could I interest you, the concerned "libertarian" types one this winters glamourous new line of teepees?

Go liberate your mom's trash from the can you rugged individualists.

I am pretty sure society and the govt and especially you didnt get me into college, get a degree, and get a job.



No, but we all chipped in on that school, those roads and bridges, and of course the whole freaking stable society that let you grow up to be such a sheltered selfish minded adult.

And so did I you toolbox lol. This line of thinking is rather, shall I say, weak?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Is it all partisan hackery with you? The DNC is no more what you think it is than the GOP and Bush admin were what the Pubs thought they were getting. The on-going stategy of the 2 major parties is to represent themselves as the only possible choices, and then have power switch back and forth between them every decade or so on rising currents of public discontent, so that the public is always voting in fear and anger against the other guys as opposed to actually for anyone. If you can't see this obvious fact, and the purpose behind the strategy, then by your own logic you must be the most blissful person in the world.



So, all dems are far left fools, yet you are a libertarian whackjob whos party cannot even beat the greens.

Whatever vic, you are a far out there wingnut, far far more then any dems you call socialists luckily you represent noone but yourself and a few other bigmouths pounding away from their their moms basements about how you do not owe the world anything..

Freedum!! rugged induhvidualists! Stop fighting the power and THE MAN/evil socialists already and go take out the trash.



Vic is not alone in seeing this all as big "distraction" by the two parties to fool Americans. And judging by your response - it is working.

E.g., I suppose you think the Dems will get rid of "pork", insteading of just shifting it to their constiuents?

Fern
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Originally posted by: Vic
Is it all partisan hackery with you? The DNC is no more what you think it is than the GOP and Bush admin were what the Pubs thought they were getting. The on-going stategy of the 2 major parties is to represent themselves as the only possible choices, and then have power switch back and forth between them every decade or so on rising currents of public discontent, so that the public is always voting in fear and anger against the other guys as opposed to actually for anyone. If you can't see this obvious fact, and the purpose behind the strategy, then by your own logic you must be the most blissful person in the world.



So, all dems are far left fools, yet you are a libertarian whackjob whos party cannot even beat the greens.

Whatever vic, you are a far out there wingnut, far far more then any dems you call socialists luckily you represent noone but yourself and a few other bigmouths pounding away from their their moms basements about how you do not owe the world anything..

Freedum!! rugged induhvidualists! Stop fighting the power and THE MAN/evil socialists already and go take out the trash.



Vic is not alone in seeing this all as big "distraction" by the two parties to fool Americans. And judging by your response - it is working.

E.g., I suppose you think the Dems will get rid of "pork", insteading of just shifting it to their constiuents?

Fern

We shall see, they are not in power yet, I am sure plenty of people are mad atm, problem is vast majority vote in reps and dems, and the ones b1tching nowdays looking for a third party are the losers, these neo-libertarians should fix their real party first before they try to hijack a third party with the same greed mongering BS that ruined the reps, it is the mindest that is flawed, like the old saying goes: "Those that hate government the most are the worst at running it."

Bigmouths like Genx, Vic and Daniel are marginalized,they can rant all they want, but this country is pretty middle of the road and that is not a bad thing in the long run.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
I wonder how charities would fare if we followed this example when we give by not publicizing it or claiming it on our tax returns?

Matthew 6

1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.


 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,556
50,731
136
Originally posted by: daniel49
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: daniel49

.2 is not much of a gain and there have been a lot of claims of inflated subscriber bases/
In addition it is still way behind usa today and wall street journal
http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0004420.html

liberal bias? even the NY times admits that

[edit] Self-examination of bias
In summer 2004, the newspaper's then public editor (ombudsman), Daniel Okrent, wrote a piece on the Times' alleged liberal bias.[28] He concluded that the Times did have a liberal bias in coverage of certain social issues, gay marriage being the example he used. He claimed that this bias reflected the paper's cosmopolitanism, which arose naturally from its roots as a hometown paper of New York City.

Okrent did not comment at length on the issue of bias in coverage of "hard news", such as fiscal policy, foreign policy, or civil liberties. However, he noted that the paper's coverage of the Iraq war was, among other things, insufficiently critical of the George W. Bush administration (see below). In May 2005 Okrent was succeeded by Byron Calame.

Additionally in a post-Jayson Blair report to Bill Keller,[29] a committee of Times employees noted:

Nothing we recommend should be seen as endorsing a retreat from tough-minded reporting of abuses of power by public or private institutions. In part because the Times ' editorial page is clearly liberal, the news pages do need to make more effort not to seem monolit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times#Self-examination_of_bias

I'm not sure how your post is relevant to what I wrote. I suggest you read it again, this time for comprehension. I never said that the NYT was the largest paper in the country. I only took issue with the fact that you said that it's subscription base was shrinking, I cited a reputable third party that said it wasn't.

I also never said that the NYT was not a leftist paper. (although I do think that reports of its bias are greatly exaggerated). I said that newspaper circulation was shrinking by and large due to fundamental changes in the ways that Americans get their news, not due to people being turned off by the editorial slant. This is supported by the broad based, 20 year decline of newspapers regardless of editorial ideology.

I know that as soon as you see a posting defending something about the NYT, your brain probably immediately jumps to that argument that's been had a million times over the possibility of editorial bias there. Unfortunately for you, that's not what's being talked about today. In fact, while its not relevant to what I said its REALLY not relevant to this thread.

My original point (that was relevant) was that people don't want to read about that sort of news... because it is boring. It's the same reason why good news usually ends up on page 5, and the missing baby is front page. Bad things are interesting, good ones... usually not so much.

Edit: Oh yeah, and no matter what your ideology Dick Cheney shooting an old man in the face was insanely hilarious.

now your boring me am cancelling you from thread

I'll take that as "I don't want to get owned anymore."
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
.....like the old saying goes: "Those that hate government the most are the worst at running it."

Hmmm... I think it would be more accurate if it said ""Those that hate government the most are the worst at expanding it."


Fern
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
.....like the old saying goes: "Those that hate government the most are the worst at running it."

Hmmm... I think it would be more accurate if it said ""Those that hate government the most are the worst at expanding it."


Fern

Sorry, mine is more historically accurate in the past 30 years of this conservative trainwreck.

Right-wing and now neo-libertarianism are both anti-civil society and anti-progress looking to flush all we have worked for, sure the govt needs to be FAR more transparent and accountable, but the dems chance to live up to it is now to be seen, can't be much worse.

If it came down to it, I would rather live with smelly hippies in the woods at a rainbow gathering then live in some utopian libertarian society of greed and non-cooperation, thanks.
 

BlancoNino

Diamond Member
Oct 31, 2005
5,695
0
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
What part of John Stossel is a tool/fool don't you get? I really don't see how I can be more specific then that. I think he's trying to be the next Rush.

Stossel =! Limbaugh. Different parties, different ideologies, different work. Limbaugh is an echo of the Republican party and Stossel isn't even a Republican himself.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Thats good news but Charities are fairly localized meaning well-to-do areas get excellent charity and poor areas get poor charity. Thats the whole reason government charity was created in the first place after those rich North Eastern liberals like FDR, JFK and stuff went down to the south and could'nt beleive people lived like that and started programs to address it. No one is heartless, conservatives just want thier monies directed to thier own and/or be able to control who gets it. Verses liberals who are a more equal opportunity giver and forced collection. No right or wrong way really just different perpective.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
What part of John Stossel is a tool/fool don't you get? I really don't see how I can be more specific then that. I think he's trying to be the next Rush.

Stossel =! Limbaugh. Different parties, different ideologies, different work. Limbaugh is an echo of the Republican party and Stossel isn't even a Republican himself.


neo-con neo-libertarian whatever, it's a new name to hide the same stench of right-wing BS.
 
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