If Plasma is superior to LCD, and cheaper, why is it not selling well?

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tegeril

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2003
2,906
5
81
This about sums it up. Really image burn was the most important one for the longest time. Now it is all about weight and thickness, which is really to the detriment of LCD image quality as well if you ask me. Nothing has hurt image quality more than LED edge lit LCD panels. The uniformity of the backlight is horrible, the color spectrum took a hit as white LEDs are not actually white, but more on the blue side, and the edge lit doesn't allow you to perform localized dimming (which was the biggest image quality advantage of using LEDs in the first place).

Image burn was largely solved but there remain temporary retention problems in modern plasmas.

I completely agree with backlight uniformity issues and steer clear of hyper-thin displays as a result. While I am in the LCD camp, my LCD is backlit LED and has local dimming and watching new models keep coming out that are edge lit I am just glad I bought when I did as the new top shelf local dimming TVs are way more expensive.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I looked at plasma before recently purchasing an 55" LCD (not LED) and I found the plasma picture quite unpleasant to look at, mostly due to the screen door effect. I found it very noticeable, even from a normal watching distance.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
the panel isn't the problem. the cheap shitty circuitry in the tv will die far before anything else.

you buy a sh!tty display and it will have sh!t components.

I have a 2006 panny plasma still running strong.
a couple 9G kuro pioneers from 2009 going strong
and a cheapo 2010 panny plasma still going strong...

heck my mother in law has a, I don't know how old, maxent 420p plasma... from 2002 maybe, still going strong...
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I looked at plasma before recently purchasing an 55" LCD (not LED) and I found the plasma picture quite unpleasant to look at, mostly due to the screen door effect. I found it very noticeable, even from a normal watching distance.

backlighting, off axis, clay face, among other issues are less distracting than the screen door effect? you do know that the screen door effect was due to mainly due to matte overlays, and really only affected a few displays?
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
I honestly think that's what pushes people away from plasma. the image DOES have that crt look to it, which is technically better then lcd, but lcd just appears so steady that people seem to prefer it.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
what? obviously not, because most people are choosing lower power, weight, and size over a better picture.

Power consumption = Absolutely minimal difference, certainly not enough influence a decision.

Weight = What, are you in the market for a portable TV?

Size = Yes, if you want a crappy little TV, an LCD is a good choice. I wouldn't consider anything smaller than 50". Now if you want a larger TV than say a 65", yes, plasma may not be a good option given that the next size (85") is pretty pricey. But then again you mentioned weight, and even an 80" LCD isn't light.


And yes, most people are morons too, so popular opinion isn't really a good argument point.
 
Last edited:

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
I know everything has a limited life. What I can't stand is things which are unnecessarily designed with a hard limit to their life. I avoid SSDs, memory sticks, CDRW DVDRW, et cetra for the same reason when I can.

Then you must live a rather dull life. Nothing lasts forever. Your spinning hard drive is more prone to failure than an SSD, and an SSD will predictably degrade and can easily be tracked to see when the failure is likely to occur. I've had spinning disks just go; I've watched my SSDs life drain in a simple way I can match to my usage and predict when I should replace it to avoid data loss.And why is it a limited life? Because you can only write to NAND blocks so often. It's a tech limitation, and one I am MORE than willing to accept given the practical upshots of the technology.

Plasmas have a halflife of 100,000 hours, and that's the degredation of the phosphors used to create the image. You run current through the gas in the panel, which gives off UV light; the UV light is absorbed by phosphors emitting visible light. Those phosphors just degrade over usage. Black levels get "bad" (but are still better than the best LCDs) around 1000-2000 hours, then get a little better and level off. It's a proven tech. If the back light in your LCD goes out, you might as well throw it out. And that can happen in less than 100,000 hours.

These aren't things being designed with limits, these are things being created that have inherent limits. They try to engineer them out - heaven forbid you go buy an OLED, they degrade too. Plasmas USED to have major burn in issues. So did CRTs (with the image being etched onto the glass. CRTs never really fixed it.) You name the thing, I'll name a way in which it's lifetime is limited.

the panel will likely outlast the back lighting used in an LCD panel. Longevity is more than acceptable in both technologies.

This. Absolutely this.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
Power consumption = Absolutely minimal difference, certainly not enough influence a decision.

Weight = What, are you in the market for a portable TV?

Size = Yes, if you want a crappy little TV, an LCD is a good choice. I wouldn't consider anything smaller than 50". Now if you want a larger TV than say a 65", yes, plasma may not be a good option given that the next size (85") is pretty pricey. But then again you mentioned weight, and even an 80" LCD isn't light.


And yes, most people are morons too, so popular opinion isn't really a good argument point.

um... wow dude... I don't even know what to say. youre being delusional
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
um... wow dude... I don't even know what to say. youre being delusional

No, he's not. He's applying this crazy thing called logic to his buying of a TV. You might disagree with his choice of a 50" TV (I don't. I like 50") but unless you're wall mounting and don't trust the studs, weight means NOTHING at the end of the day. As I said on page 1, my plasma is near 80lb last I looked. But I have only cared about that TWO times: when I bought it and put it on its mount because I lifted it up myself and had to align it (talk about something being a *(&%), and now because I move on saturday.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,475
3,591
126
Yay for more unfounded rumor and speculation...

This word - I do not think it means what you think it means. Speculation? certainly. Unfounded? Hardly given that they halted development of new plasmas and have, apparently, planned to end manufacturing in their main production plant in 2014 and have already written off the equipment there.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
This word - I do not think it means what you think it means. Speculation? certainly. Unfounded? Hardly given that they halted development of new plasmas and have, apparently, planned to end manufacturing in their main production plant in 2014 and have already written off the equipment there.

shhh, people are stupid so public opinion doesn't matter.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
backlighting, off axis, clay face, among other issues are less distracting than the screen door effect? you do know that the screen door effect was due to mainly due to matte overlays, and really only affected a few displays?

After looking at a lot of TVs, I found plasmas to have a pretty poor picture. I found low to mid level LED TVs to be pretty crappy too. And before you make any comments about how you get what you pay for, there's your answer to this thread. You can get an adequate LCD set for under $1,000. If the plasmas in that range suck, that's why they're going away. Not everybody wants to spend $2,000 on a TV so they can be picture snobs on the internet.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
After looking at a lot of TVs, I found plasmas to have a pretty poor picture. I found low to mid level LED TVs to be pretty crappy too. And before you make any comments about how you get what you pay for, there's your answer to this thread. You can get an adequate LCD set for under $1,000. If the plasmas in that range suck, that's why they're going away. Not everybody wants to spend $2,000 on a TV so they can be picture snobs on the internet.

Huh? My G25 - which was middle of the line for Panasonic in 2010 - cost me $1000 or so.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
You can get an adequate LCD set for under $1,000. If the plasmas in that range suck, that's why they're going away.

at a given price point, the plasma display will be better in terms of picture quality than an LCD. You will have to spend more money to get a comparable PQ LCD to a plasma. You can get a nice plasma for under a grand... so I guess you are partially correct that you can get an adequate LCD for under $1000.

Not everybody wants to spend $2,000 on a TV so they can be picture snobs on the internet.

a "picture snob" will spend 5+ times that amount on a display. My first Kuro was 4800, my second was 3500. and I spent over 400/each to have them calibrated.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
After looking at a lot of TVs, I found plasmas to have a pretty poor picture. I found low to mid level LED TVs to be pretty crappy too. And before you make any comments about how you get what you pay for, there's your answer to this thread. You can get an adequate LCD set for under $1,000. If the plasmas in that range suck, that's why they're going away. Not everybody wants to spend $2,000 on a TV so they can be picture snobs on the internet.

picture quality where? at best buy?


my 800 buck sammy plasma from 2009 still looks better than most of my friends TV's, except the guy with the 55" LED DLP, oh and my 65" LED DLP.....

a properly setup plasma kills most LCD's, which end up looking washed out and drab


box stores push LCD's because they are told to.

if you are too lazy to deal with lighting, then a plasma can be a PITA due to reflection. I have nice blinds, and am willing to turn the light off that backlights my unit to watch tv enjoyably.
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
box stores push LCD's because that's what sells. people compare all of the factors and they buy LCD. its not an argument, there is plenty of reasons why plasmas are losing and we already went over it.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Then you must live a rather dull life. Nothing lasts forever. Your spinning hard drive is more prone to failure than an SSD, and an SSD will predictably degrade and can easily be tracked to see when the failure is likely to occur. I've had spinning disks just go; I've watched my SSDs life drain in a simple way I can match to my usage and predict when I should replace it to avoid data loss.And why is it a limited life? Because you can only write to NAND blocks so often. It's a tech limitation, and one I am MORE than willing to accept given the practical upshots of the technology.

Plasmas have a halflife of 100,000 hours, and that's the degredation of the phosphors used to create the image. You run current through the gas in the panel, which gives off UV light; the UV light is absorbed by phosphors emitting visible light. Those phosphors just degrade over usage. Black levels get "bad" (but are still better than the best LCDs) around 1000-2000 hours, then get a little better and level off. It's a proven tech. If the back light in your LCD goes out, you might as well throw it out. And that can happen in less than 100,000 hours.

These aren't things being designed with limits, these are things being created that have inherent limits. They try to engineer them out - heaven forbid you go buy an OLED, they degrade too. Plasmas USED to have major burn in issues. So did CRTs (with the image being etched onto the glass. CRTs never really fixed it.) You name the thing, I'll name a way in which it's lifetime is limited.



This. Absolutely this.

How do you do this? What software do you use?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
How do you do this? What software do you use?

Among other things you can watch the SMART data. I'll grab a snapshot of what I use tonight. It's just a basic "this drive has ___ much life left" type metric. It's not a clear 100% way to do things, but it does give you a very good idea of when it's running down and might be time to start pricing new drives.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,252
5,698
146
until you can get a 50 inch OLED TV for 1500$ they are not going to squash anything

and they wont hit that price anytime soon, considering you cant really even but the 10000$ 55inch ones yet

Yes because as we know perfectly well technology doesn't change at all and prices will stay the same for the life of it too!

OLEDs still have shitty color reproduction.

Yep, might as well switch to grayscale its so f-ing awful, right?

And yep, CRTs, plasmas, and LCDs were flawless from the start and still are to this day!
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |