If Plasma is superior to LCD, and cheaper, why is it not selling well?

[Meghan54]

Why did Beta lose to VHS? ... The answer to your question isn't simple and there are multiple factors but the shortest version is this: The consumer is (largely) ignorant.

Sorry, but your revisionist history is largely incorrect about Beta's demise.

Even blind, ignorant consumers could easily see BetaMax's superior picture quality vs. VHS. There never was any argument, marketing, etc., that changed that fact.

What killed BetaMax was a combination of shorter tape recording times, higher cost for machines and tapes, and one lone supplier of Beta vs. longer tapes/recording time, much lower cost recorders/players and tapes, and darned near everyone else except Sony producing/selling VHS.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you have a proprietary technology and you won't license it to anyone (Sony's Beta), artificially keep prices high, while at the same time you've got a competing technology that is cheaper, much more widespread in production, and looks good enough (VHS), it's no wonder VHS won that battle.

Now, if Sony had done with Beta what JVC did with VHS...give the licenses away for nada, the end may have been completely different. But the death of BetaMax was pretty much all due to Sony's arrogance and lack of understanding that people will take "good enough" over "superior" when the price and utility on the "good enough" tech/product vastly undercuts the "superior" tech/product.

 

[Midwayman]

Actully no its the LG http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-60LA8600-led-tv

I'll trust Consumer reports more then Cnet thank you. CRs has an extensive testing facility for TVs and has been spot on for over 30 years but the final rating is for overall value not just the PQ.

But here is the other problem I have is brand loyalty and smugness towards other "lesser" brands. I remember back in the DAy when only Sony could be a good TV which was utter crap and you paid about 20% more just for the name.

CR is a joke. Their reviews are so far off a lot of the time as to be almost worthless. They also go way too far into the 'generic consumer' mode to be useful if you are even a small enthusiast about what you're buying.

 

[alcoholbob]

Large screen plasmas tend to be a bit noisier than LCDs which can be a concern, due to cooling fans.

 

[Drako]

Large screen plasmas tend to be a bit noisier than LCDs which can be a concern, due to cooling fans.

LOL, cooling fans. The hilarity never ends.

This is exactly why plasma displays fail to sell - morons like this spreading FUD.

C'est La Vie.

 

[LegendKiller]

Large screen plasmas tend to be a bit noisier than LCDs which can be a concern, due to cooling fans.

It should be illegal to be this stupid.

 

[Midwayman]

LOL, cooling fans. The hilarity never ends.

This is exactly why plasma displays fail to sell - morons like this spreading FUD.

C'est La Vie.

Some Plasmas do have cooling fans. The tspXXvt60 panasonic for instance was modified mid-year due to excessive fan noise on some sets.

 

[rockfella79]

Samsung gives hard to beat dealer deals to retailers. This is why you will notice salesmen pushing SAMSUNG in every corner of the world. Customers just believe what salesmen tell them and while selling margin are the only thing that drive sales guys / companies period!

Sales people are to blame, as well... I went in to a dedicated TV store to buy a new one few weeks ago, and the first thing that two different sales people took me to is a Samsung LCD. Even after telling them that I wasn't interested in Samsung, and that I wanted to look at plasmas, they still brought me back to the Samsungs.

I found a Panasonic 65" Plasma stuck back in the corner (and ended up bringing it home), but they never voluntarily showed me any plasma models.

 

[Triumph]

Looks like plasma is a dying breed; Panasonic is ending their production of plasmas next month due to poor sales:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/panasonic-will-stop-producing-plasma-tvs-december-8C11505322

I've had my 50" Panasonic for 3 years now and I don't know how many thousands of hours of use. Picture still looks great. Never had any burn in problem despite A: playing games on it and B: often falling asleep in front of it with the Netflix screen or DVD menu on static display for hours and hours.

Oh, it's also mounted next to 1 full length bay window and a 3-door-wide patio door where it gets direct sunlight in the morning hours and bright light most of the day. I have never had a problem seeing the picture. The brightness washout is completely irrelavent.

Who cares about thickness once its mounted anyway? So it's 2" thicker than the thinnest LCD, what do I care? I can't see that from my viewing point.

People are dumb, and the rest of us have our buying choices limited because of it!

 

[Anubis]

LOL, cooling fans. The hilarity never ends.

This is exactly why plasma displays fail to sell - morons like this spreading FUD.

C'est La Vie.

umm they do have fans, i think anything 60" or larger does and some 55s, they are generally very quiet however this years VT series from panasonic was kinda loud but they fixed it mid year as someone pointed out.

 

[JimKiler]

Looks like plasma is a dying breed; Panasonic is ending their production of plasmas next month due to poor sales:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/panasonic-will-stop-producing-plasma-tvs-december-8C11505322

I've had my 50" Panasonic for 3 years now and I don't know how many thousands of hours of use. Picture still looks great. Never had any burn in problem despite A: playing games on it and B: often falling asleep in front of it with the Netflix screen or DVD menu on static display for hours and hours.

Oh, it's also mounted next to 1 full length bay window and a 3-door-wide patio door where it gets direct sunlight in the morning hours and bright light most of the day. I have never had a problem seeing the picture. The brightness washout is completely irrelavent.

Who cares about thickness once its mounted anyway? So it's 2" thicker than the thinnest LCD, what do I care? I can't see that from my viewing point.

People are dumb, and the rest of us have our buying choices limited because of it!

The lack of Plasma deals as well for black friday is also omnious. But without anyone planning 4K plasma it would be a waste to keep plasma going in a couple years.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Looks like plasma is a dying breed; Panasonic is ending their production of plasmas next month due to poor sales:
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/panasonic-will-stop-producing-plasma-tvs-december-8C11505322

I've had my 50" Panasonic for 3 years now and I don't know how many thousands of hours of use. Picture still looks great. Never had any burn in problem despite A: playing games on it and B: often falling asleep in front of it with the Netflix screen or DVD menu on static display for hours and hours.

Oh, it's also mounted next to 1 full length bay window and a 3-door-wide patio door where it gets direct sunlight in the morning hours and bright light most of the day. I have never had a problem seeing the picture. The brightness washout is completely irrelavent.

Who cares about thickness once its mounted anyway? So it's 2" thicker than the thinnest LCD, what do I care? I can't see that from my viewing point.

People are dumb, and the rest of us have our buying choices limited because of it!

Sad, because IMO LCD will never be as good as Plasma, and I'm not convinced OLED will, either.

They certainly won't be as good if there's not a lot of high-quality 4K content out there......and hell, there is little to no 1080p content that is available on cable or satellite NOW.....the vast majority is still 1080i oir 720p. No way they'll have bandwidth to squeeze 4k through even in the next 10-15 years, and that's IF all the studios and networks convert everything to 4K in the first place!

And there's no point to 4K on regular sized TV's, unless you're going to sit closer, and unless there's going to be some 4K content.

 

[Aithos]

Actully no its the LG http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-60LA8600-led-tv

I'll trust Consumer reports more then Cnet thank you. CRs has an extensive testing facility for TVs and has been spot on for over 30 years but the final rating is for overall value not just the PQ.

But here is the other problem I have is brand loyalty and smugness towards other "lesser" brands. I remember back in the DAy when only Sony could be a good TV which was utter crap and you paid about 20% more just for the name.

I would never trust anything from Consumer Reports, they have to be one of the worst, least accurate and most biased sites I've seen. They blatently favor certain brands even when every other source available shows the product to be inferior. CNET is much better as a whole, but still isn't perfect. They are a marketing site that like magazines make money by promoting products.

Your best resource is still expert opinions on enthusiast forums like AVS when the poster has a long track record or proven credentials (like being a calibrator for 15+ years). That's where I went for knowledge on panels when I wanted to bone up, even "company reps" are a joke because they get hired to rep for multiple companies (yay outsourcing) and often know almost nothing about their actual products. LG is worse than most, Bose and Monster were the only reps that actually knew anything...

 

[Anubis]

Sad, because IMO LCD will never be as good as Plasma, and I'm not convinced OLED will, either.
.

im not sure about that, granted there are not many available and they cost a lot. but based on the reviews of this one things actually dont look so bad

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493578/lg-55ea9800-55-oled-owners-thread/0_100

Compared to the best plasmas, namely the Pioneer Elite Kuro and the Panasonic VT/ZT60, the EA9800 is significantly superior in most areas, especially smoothness and clarity. Contrast is superior also, with the EA9800 maintaining that contrast even in dark movie scenes. It's greater light output capability means that, provided reflections are minimized, the EA9800 will look punchier and more exciting in rooms with moderately bright ambient light. Color accuracy is very good, though this is one area where the EA9800's measured performance could not quite match that of the reference plasmas. Thankfully, any measured color accuracy deficiencies were so minor that they were not visible with normal programming, which always had beautiful color in ISF Night mode. In comparison with arguably the best LED LCD, the Sharp Elite, the EA9800 displays visibly better color, no blooming around white objects, and better purity in moving white objects such as hockey rinks. In short, the EA9800 is the best of the best, handily surpassing previous reference displays.

 

[McWatt]

umm they do have fans, i think anything 60" or larger does and some 55s, they are generally very quiet however this years VT series from panasonic was kinda loud but they fixed it mid year as someone pointed out.

Worse than fan noise is the plasma buzz. I returned a bunch of Panasonic and Samsung plasmas a couple years ago before I realized I was in the very large group of people with a hearing range wide enough to pick up that buzz. Whenever the tv was on I could hear the buzz from any room in my rather large, sound-absorbing house. If you're able to hear things like CRT or capacitor whine there's a good chance the plasma buzz will make the technology unusable.

 

[GoSharks]

LOL, cooling fans. The hilarity never ends.

This is exactly why plasma displays fail to sell - morons like this spreading FUD.

C'est La Vie.

Um, my Panasonic TH-42PX80U (42" 1080p from 2008) has a set of 4 80mm fans running mounted on the back near the top of the TV. They don't make any noticeable noise, but they are there.

 

[Anubis]

Worse than fan noise is the plasma buzz. I returned a bunch of Panasonic and Samsung plasmas a couple years ago before I realized I was in the very large group of people with a hearing range wide enough to pick up that buzz. Whenever the tv was on I could hear the buzz from any room in my rather large, sound-absorbing house. If you're able to hear things like CRT or capacitor whine there's a good chance the plasma buzz will make the technology unusable.

ive owned 3 plasmas and ive never heard the Buzz unless i stuck my head behind the TV. everyone is different on this, CRTs had a buzz as well, some people can hear it, some can not

 

[sdifox]

ive owned 3 plasmas and ive never heard the Buzz unless i stuck my head behind the TV. everyone is different on this, CRTs had a buzz as well, some people can hear it, some can not

I can hear the plasma buzz, and it changes pitch depending on what is on the display

 

[Aithos]

You can only hear the Plasma buzz if you are too close to the TV or your volume is set too low. The only exception to this is if you have a defective panel, some of the earlier Samsung and Panasonic plasma's had issues with this but recent models are completely quiet. Even my Pioneer which is a bit louder than most (and heats up) is completely un-noticable and I have better than average hearing (I'm also an audiophile).

 

[Makaveli]

Well I just read this whole thread and there is alot of interesting pieces of information littered with utter nonsense lol.

Some of you clearly know what you are talking about the others not so sure.

I recently did a fairly large jump from a 46' Samsung LNT4669FX (2007) to a 64' Samsung PN648000E (2012)

The picture on this plasma is stunning to my eyes, I watch alot of sports also NHL/NFL/NBA and the movement and clarity really destroys my old tv. Granted that is a older LCD model and new sets are far better.

I did go into a few stores before I settled on this model.

Best Buy/Future shop Big outlet stores do make LCD looks better with the insane lighting most people don't have when viewing at home. However when you see the plasma's that are setup properly in a real A/V store its visible from the from door when you walking in how good the picture is.

This is the most expensive tv I have purchased I can clearly see the different when I go to other people's houses and come back to my own unless they have a highend plasma it just doesn't compare.

My Plasma is wall mounted and doesn't produce alot of heat, and its pretty thin for its size so alot of those complaints I saw are just for older gen stuff.

At the end of the day you buy that suits you and your budget and living situation. I have no children and live alone girlfriend hasn't moved in yet so I have full control of my Tv, its viewing, how many hours its on, what content is being viewed etc etc.

Some people don't have that luxury.

However for picture quality there is no doubt which is better any professional installer or calibrator will tell you the same thing.

 

[flimsy]

rip plasma

 

[sdifox]

You can only hear the Plasma buzz if you are too close to the TV or your volume is set too low. The only exception to this is if you have a defective panel, some of the earlier Samsung and Panasonic plasma's had issues with this but recent models are completely quiet. Even my Pioneer which is a bit louder than most (and heats up) is completely un-noticable and I have better than average hearing (I'm also an audiophile).

I think it has less to do with audiophile and more to do with frequency sensitivity. I can hear old CRT high voltage coils once in a while while 10 ft away from the tv. Same with the plasma buzz, I am 10 ft or so away.

My head tingles when I pass under the hydro transmission lines.

 

[Makaveli]

I think it has less to do with audiophile and more to do with frequency sensitivity. I can hear old CRT high voltage coils once in a while while 10 ft away from the tv. Same with the plasma buzz, I am 10 ft or so away.

My head tingles when I pass under the hydro transmission lines.

+1

Some people have better hearing than others.

Frequency sensitivity varies from person to person and age.

 

[Pacfanweb]

+1

Some people have better hearing than others.

Frequency sensitivity varies from person to person and age.

When I was a kid, I could hear any CRT when it fired up from anywhere in the room. They changed as they warmed up, too, and also the noise was different on different channels.
It would fade into the background after a minute or so, though.

Can't hear that now, and I still have a couple of CRT's in the house.

 

[Makaveli]

When I was a kid, I could hear any CRT when it fired up from anywhere in the room. They changed as they warmed up, too, and also the noise was different on different channels.
It would fade into the background after a minute or so, though.

Can't hear that now, and I still have a couple of CRT's in the house.

Same for me but it hasn't dropped off for me I can still hear it.

And I notice plasma buzz also.

Granted i'm only 33 so maybe in a few more years that will change.

 

[destrekor]

im not sure about that, granted there are not many available and they cost a lot. but based on the reviews of this one things actually dont look so bad

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493578/lg-55ea9800-55-oled-owners-thread/0_100

Yep. Considering these are first-generation living room sets (I don't count 11" Sony models, and phones/tablets are tech demos/production tests/etc), there will be some hiccups. Typical for consumer display devices in general, the default settings, combined with some slight manufacturing "issues", leads the colors to be probably slightly over-saturated.
I wouldn't want to buy a first generation OLED display anyhow, because pixel life for each color is different. I think Blue has always been the worst of all OLEDs for lifespan, and green has always been the weakest color in terms of light output. That is... if I am remembering that correctly.

There appears to be an interesting point of comparison between the LG and Samsung:
LG is using a white pixel layer with four sub-pixels per pixel. Three sub-pixels are covered with RGB filters, and the fourth is left uncovered. So, the panel is made entirely of WHITE OLEDs and color is produced using filters. I'll have to dig into the filter design/tech, curious if it's a phosphor approach.
That could help with some areas OLED has been week in, but I have a feeling it leads to color accuracy questions. That white OLED and thus white subpixel also have to be very carefully manufactured, because the color temperature of that white will mean everything. Seeing as it's roughly $10k, I'd hope they have that dialed in correctly, but as things get cheaper I'd be afraid of that trend.
The Samsung, in contrast, goes they typical OLED route - they use the true sub-pixel matrix of Red, Green, and Blue OLEDs.
The biggest concern still, and a quick search reveals nothing for the absolute latest tech: just how long will those OLEDs last, especially the Blue OLEDs? Previously, Blue OLEDs only had a 10-15,000 hour lifespan/MTBF (technically, I'm not sure which - lifespan, or MTBF.. real-world impact is a little different for each word ). If I'm paying $10k for a TV, it's not becoming junk in 15,000 hours. That's weak.

That's a major hurdle for OLED right now. I think the rest, especially color accuracy, gamut, evenness, brightness... those will easily continue to improve with manufacturing stability and diode research... and as long as lifespan and uniformity can be improved/maintained, OLED will easily become THE dominant and best-rated display tech... ever.
It can be out-done with new tech, easily... but OLED is already right on the line of thoroughly outclassing Plasma.
I absolutely love PDP, but, OLED panels are going to easily outshine the best any other display tech has to offer, so long as the rest of the circuity driving the displays remains up to standard. Will refresh rates remain smooth, input lag remain minimal, everyday performance keep up with the best TVs of today? I imagine those 55" OLEDs probably already match the other displays out there - it's just up to the OLED tech itself to mature just a little more.
I cannot wait until OLED is in the price bracket of affordable displays today - because by that time, the picture quality of an OLED set will leave us Plasma owners picking our jaws up off the floor. I alone cannot wait for that pure inky black level. I already am beyond impressed with my PDP's black level, but jesus - OLED will be insanity in comparison. I'm pretty sure OLED black can be measured to absolutely match the best CRT black levels. The whole idea of OLED blacks is, well, zero voltage applied (and no black light), so the only thing that exists is minor light bleed from any surrounding pixels/phosphors. Which is to say, the same as CRT.