If possible: Forced birth control for those on welfare to stop the next generation of poor

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Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
Where does any of what you quoted mention poor people as a single reason for my stand. I think that you are missing what I'm typing, poor people who continue to do things to limit the possibility to get out of where they are. You guys continue to ignore that huge part of the argument and attempt to change what I'm typing. WHEN do you say enough is enough? Is a person having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare OK with you?
You can't reason with the unreasonable and nobody wants to speak of personal responsibility in this matter. These very same people would be raising holy hell if they got hit by someone with no car insurance while out driving around town.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
Where does any of what you quoted mention poor people as a single reason for my stand. I think that you are missing what I'm typing, poor people who continue to do things to limit the possibility to get out of where they are. You guys continue to ignore that huge part of the argument and attempt to change what I'm typing. WHEN do you say enough is enough? Is a person having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare OK with you?
I didn't say poor people were the only reason for your stand. I said you are worried about what benefits poor people get. I said there are more important things to worry about and that is still my answer. It's certainly not important enough to restrict reproduction rights or implement policy that will create more hungry children than we already have.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
Where does any of what you quoted mention poor people as a single reason for my stand. I think that you are missing what I'm typing, poor people who continue to do things to limit the possibility to get out of where they are. You guys continue to ignore that huge part of the argument and attempt to change what I'm typing. WHEN do you say enough is enough? Is a person having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare OK with you?

People are having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare?!!!

Shit! You better call up trump and have his voter fraud commission jump on this immediately! I'm sure what you are talking about is happening at such an alarming rate, just like voter fraud!

I'd ask for a citation but you and I both know that would be a complete waste of time because you and I both know that you haven't once bothered researching anything before you started posting. Its just a habit stupid people fall into.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,283
8,201
136
Poverty is a function of the economic system, reduce the numbers of the existing poor and more poor will be created to take their place.

I'd rather see forced birth-control for the rich, who consume far more of the world's resources.
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
202
106
I didn't say poor people were the only reason for your stand. I said you are worried about what benefits poor people get. I said there are more important things to worry about and that is still my answer. It's certainly not important enough to restrict reproduction rights or implement policy that will create more hungry children than we already have.
So your not gonna answer? Is a person having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare OK with you?
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
202
106
People are having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare?!!!

Shit! You better call up trump and have his voter fraud commission jump on this immediately! I'm sure what you are talking about is happening at such an alarming rate, just like voter fraud!

I'd ask for a citation but you and I both know that would be a complete waste of time because you and I both know that you haven't once bothered researching anything before you started posting. Its just a habit stupid people fall into.
If you actually read the posts you would see where I get my info from. Care to go back and actually read before opening mouth?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
So your not gonna answer? Is a person having kids for the sole purpose of staying on welfare OK with you?
If that is how they want to spend their life, go for it. Way more important things to worry about.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
You can't reason with the unreasonable and nobody wants to speak of personal responsibility in this matter. These very same people would be raising holy hell if they got hit by someone with no car insurance while out driving around town.

Oh were we supposed to be talking about individual cases or a policy that affects millions of people?

Lets us know which facts you've used to come to your conclusion that this would make good policy.

How long should we wait for those facts?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
If you actually read the posts you would see where I get my info from. Care to go back and actually read before opening mouth?

Hmmm...I read your posts again and I still didn't find any citations or facts to back up your claims. Maybe we are having a communication issue; do you know what a fact and a citation is?
 

Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,778
2,333
136
This is the sort of thing China (used to) like. Ask them how the "1 kid" policy worked.

As others have said, we really want the government engaged in population control? Is overpopulation even a problem in this country?

One thing is correct, as wealth continues to concentrate at the top something will have to give. I guess this would be one way that the ultra-rich could keep the hordes away from their gates (for a while). Gee, sounds like a great country to live in. More like the world of Elysium or any number of other future dystopias from stories.
 

SNC

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2001
2,166
202
106
Hmmm...I read your posts again and I still didn't find any citations or facts to back up your claims. Maybe we are having a communication issue; do you know what a fact and a citation is?
So 5 years of living it is not enough for you, got it.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
So 5 years of living it is not enough for you, got it.

You'll have to work on your English if you want people to understand what it is you are trying to communicate. I can help though. Do you need me to explain what a fact is? What about a citation?
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
136
That isn't it at all. If a person has fallen upon demonstrably hard times shouldn't they also bear some part in mitigating their own circumstances?

Good luck talking to liberals who think breeding and having others support them is a good idea. As someone who is left leaning libertarian its one of the few things i disagree with them on. I dont have a single problem with welfare in general. Just the way it is handled and how we let people abuse it and continue to breed on tax payer money as if that is ok.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
So 5 years of living it is not enough for you, got it.
Anecdotal evidence shouldn’t be enough for anyone. Your experience is representative of one thing. Your experience. Much like your individual experiences since then would not be representative of anything either.

There is statistical evidence that contradicts what you state you experienced as being representative of the majority. In fact it states that it’s a small small percentage of the overall group.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
This reminds me of what happened here in FL after the 2004 hurricane season where the state assessed a storm fee on all property owners even if we weren't a part of the state insurance pool. I had my own policy that I paid in full each year but now I'm being forced to pay for another separate insurance pool in addition to my own which wasn't right.

Those policy holders should've had to pay for the shortfall of their own insurance plans but instead everyone had to pay it for them. They didn't contribute to my property insurance costs yet I'm being forced to pay for theirs in addition to my own. This issue is similar in that folks are asking for assistance for their current circumstance and I, as well as many others, believe they shouldn't be allowed to escalate this need during that time.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
for women, there's a birth control shot that lasts at least a month.
let's say there's a birth control shot for men that make them sterile for a month at a time?

would making those on public assistance (welfare/food stamps/section 8 housing/etc) receive these shots greatly reduce the next generation of poor?

less poor = better for society overall?
ie: less resources to prop them up and less crime

Negative. No one should be forced to take pills or injections just because they're poor.

Looking at human beings fundamentally as liabilities is very dangerous.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
136
This is the sort of thing China (used to) like. Ask them how the "1 kid" policy worked.

As others have said, we really want the government engaged in population control? Is overpopulation even a problem in this country?

One thing is correct, as wealth continues to concentrate at the top something will have to give. I guess this would be one way that the ultra-rich could keep the hordes away from their gates (for a while). Gee, sounds like a great country to live in. More like the world of Elysium or any number of other future dystopias from stories.

You seem to be missing the actual argument being made. No one is talking about 1 kid policies or permanently sterilizing people. The topic is should people on government welfare type programs be allowed to continue breeding or should they be on some form of TEMPORARY birth control until they can support themselves and kids.

Liberals seem to think its fine to let them keep breeding and someone else will pay of it no matter what. I think its fine you need temporary help from a social program, but not letting you dig our hole deeper by allowing you to add to the problem already at hand.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
136
Negative. No one should be forced to take pills or injections just because they're poor.

Looking at human beings fundamentally as liabilities is very dangerous.

It's not because you're poor. Its because you are on the tax payers dime. Do those two things happen to go hand in hand a lot? Sure, but not always. But the issue isnt that you are poor in and of itself.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
Look the simple, and far less invasive, option here is to just not increase benefits if new children are born into the recipient family. Get away from the entire force anything argument.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
You seem to be missing the actual argument being made. No one is talking about 1 kid policies or permanently sterilizing people. The topic is should people on government welfare type programs be allowed to continue breeding or should they be on some form of TEMPORARY birth control until they can support themselves and kids.

Liberals seem to think its fine to let them keep breeding and someone else will pay of it no matter what. I think its fine you need temporary help from a social program, but not letting you dig our hole deeper by allowing you to add to the problem already at hand.
David Koch: Hey soulcougher! Look over there! That poor person is wasting your tax money!
 
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