If possible: Forced birth control for those on welfare to stop the next generation of poor

[Jaskalas]

Capitalism swimming in a global market has already crushed American wages compared to their former values. Soon automation will deliver a final blow to the fantasy of a zero tax state, as greater shares of wealth are generated in production without the costs of labor. Without benefit to the consumer. Today you play a child's game of fighting over scraps. How dare they receive welfare?! Tomorrow you WILL join them on it.

Production must be taxed, and the resulting value distributed to the consumers, or capitalism will utterly collapse.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

While I agree that forced birth control is extreme not doing anything except providing more benefits only encourages the problem to continue. We do not have infinite resources for this so a solution must be enacted that provides help while discouraging the practice. I posted those videos about Angel Adams earlier because she is the epitome of this issue.

Someone mentioned earlier we have much bigger fish to fry, that is my POV as well. It troubles me that the poor are so often targeted, mostly because they are an easy target.

Someone else mentioned something to the effect of, we have thrown trillions at the issue and not solved it. I prefer my tax dollars help the poor, rather than finance unnecessary wars that break far more than they fix. How much have we spent on Iraq this century? It has a dynamic that reminds me of bullying. The bigger, more powerful bully the weaker, then that weaker individual finds someone even weaker to bully. It's some serious bullyshit mate.

 

[SlowSpyder]

While I wouldn't be for forced birth control, I do think we need to take measures to stop things like this.

 

[cytg111]

I'm all for equal opportunity for everyone. Didn't know that was part of the discussion. I dont see why you cannot do both.

If you cannot take care of yourself and need gov. assistance then you should be expected to not exacerbate your situation by making it harder on yourself and the person trying to help you. It does nobody any good by allowing this behavior and saying its okay.

Ill leave the thread at this. Its pointless debating with people who have already made up their minds and cannot see how this is bad behavior to endorse.

I dont think anyone is debating that it is a suboptimal position I think people is arguing the proposed counter measure is worse, much worse. That is all.
Assuming your line of thought, what makes a good parent? Are you qualified just because you got money? What about all the pedos and similar freaks that lives seemingly normal lives, all the psychological fucked up people that is going to pass on their shit to their kids?
The only true way to travel this path is to require people to obtain a license, to go through a number of tests, before they can engage in putting more people on this earth. You could argue anyone who is born out of "license" is an illegal of sorts, lesser privileges-something.
I guess that is the point, once you begin down this road, where does it end?

 

[cytg111]

While I wouldn't be for forced birth control, I do think we need to take measures to stop things like this.

Stop to think that this woman is raising 15 kids by herself on no money. That is god damn impressive.

 

[Puffnstuff]

While I wouldn't be for forced birth control, I do think we need to take measures to stop things like this.

I posted Angel Adams already in #98.

Stop to think that this woman is raising 15 kids by herself on no money. That is god damn impressive.

No we raised her 15 kids through tax dollar provided assistance.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Stop to think that this woman is raising 15 kids by herself on no money. That is god damn impressive.

It isn't "no money", its just none of her money being used to raise them.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I posted Angel Adams already in #98.

No we raised her 15 kids through tax dollar provided assistance.

I missed it, my bad. Here is an update (17 kids now).

 

[DrunkenSano]

Stop to think that this woman is raising 15 kids by herself on no money. That is god damn impressive.

Sorry but my opinion is if a woman has no money and has 15 kids, she is retarded and a drain on society. Raising a kid in a good environment costs money, a lot of money. It is very irresponsible to raise a kid, not even mentioning 15 kids, in a financially unstable state. So I have no issues with birth control being mandatory for those choosing to be on welfare.

However, as many have stated, we also have other major problems we can and need to handle. Over the years, more and more problems are left to be solved and they are costing more and more to solve.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I missed it, my bad. Here is an update (17 kids now).

No problem brother I've done it too. Even President Obama spoke out against endless welfare. You should listen to this welfare queen's responses to some simple questions about benefits as she is not motivated at all to change her circumstance and this thinking is not mutually exclusive to any one ethnicity..

 

[cytg111]

I posted Angel Adams already in #98.

No we raised her 15 kids through tax dollar provided assistance.

Yea, something is wrong with her, up to 17 and wants more.
She, singular, is crazy and the reaction and proposed solution to her problem is? Cut all their nuts off? Sorry forgot, we gents dont have a nut in this game .

 

[SlowSpyder]

Sorry but my opinion is if a woman has no money and has 15 kids, she is retarded and a drain on society. Raising a kid in a good environment costs money, a lot of money. It is very irresponsible to raise a kid, not even mentioning 15 kids, in a financially unstable state. So I have no issues with birth control being mandatory for those choosing to be on welfare.

However, as many have stated, we also have other major problems we can and need to handle. Over the years, more and more problems are left to be solved and they are costing more and more to solve.

She now has 17 kids. How many of those kids will contribute to society, how many do you think will repeat the cycle, have a bunch of kids they cannot care for and depend on the government? This woman is a drain on all of us and a terrible role model for her children.

 

[cytg111]

Sorry but my opinion is if a woman has no money and has 15 kids, she is retarded and a drain on society. Raising a kid in a good environment costs money, a lot of money. It is very irresponsible to raise a kid, not even mentioning 15 kids, in a financially unstable state. So I have no issues with birth control being mandatory for those choosing to be on welfare.

However, as many have stated, we also have other major problems we can and need to handle. Over the years, more and more problems are left to be solved and they are costing more and more to solve.

Another problem with this is the responsibility of the father.
Until you have a fool proof method of always identifying the father, to me, this makes it another non starter.
Also, "birthcontrol" is not without side effects, in ten-twenty years the "gov game me cancer" lawsuits is gonna trickle in.
I argue that this is SO SMALL potatoes that it is not worth invading personal freedom for. Is there some cases that makes you facepalm, yea, sure. The cost of preventing it? Not worth it IMO.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Another problem with this is the responsibility of the father.

Lets get it right....fathers! Who dat babies daddy....LOL This is a social issue where these types of behaviors have been deemed to be acceptable and it needs to be addressed through improved education. Angel is an extreme case of abuse but there are many others too that mirror her thinking.

Angel has made a life out of laying down spreading her legs for whomever she pleases and then expects for all of us to pick up her tab. Hey I'd like a new Tesla model X so are you guys willing to make my payments for me including insurance?

 

[dainthomas]

It's not that we want to endorse the behavior. It's that the proposed solutions are worse than the problem they are trying to solve. As a libertarian, I would not expect you to be so flippant about giving the government the power to decide who can reproduce and when just because you found a case where you think that power might be justified.

However, this does raise a significant question now that I think about it and I'd like @Jaskalas to weigh in on it while I am thinking about it. As a proponent of universal income myself, I wonder how many people would choose to just sit home and reproduce as much as possible. I can imagine that being a pretty popular mindset. How would this issue be addressed?

Every study I've heard of says that the better off a population is, the lower the rate of reproduction. I've not heard one that says when you give people money, they reproduce more.

Seems like if soulcougher really wanted to address his phantom problem, universal income and (optional) gov't provided birth control would be the way to go.

 

[EduCat]

This thread is disgusting. Stop a few welfare queens to fix poverty. LOL w0wz0rs!

 

[Paratus]

Yea, something is wrong with her, up to 17 and wants more.
She, singular, is crazy and the reaction and proposed solution to her problem is? Cut all their nuts off? Sorry forgot, we gents dont have a nut in this game .

Well since so many want forced birth control, which mainly means women, what if instead the answer was to have the government forcibly surgically sterilize any man (including husbands) who gets a woman pregnant who did not wish to be.

Should take care of the unintended pregnancy problem pretty quick and it gets the government involved in procreation which many of the authoritarians here seem to be hot for. Win-win. /s

 

[Puffnstuff]

As a working father with two sons I paid for them from birth until they went out on their own. There were times I worked upwards of 80hrs a week to earn overtime so I could give them the things they needed in life.

When I look at people who don't even try yet expect for me to give them what I've earned I'm disgusted if not angered by it. If you want them to live this way then give them access to your personal bank account and pay for them.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yea, something is wrong with her, up to 17 and wants more.
She, singular, is crazy and the reaction and proposed solution to her problem is? Cut all their nuts off? Sorry forgot, we gents dont have a nut in this game .

She's an extreme case. Who the hell cares about cherry picked examples meant to prove a larger point? Seriously?

 

[cytg111]

Lets get it right....fathers! Who dat babies daddy....LOL This is a social issue where these types of behaviors have been deemed to be acceptable and it needs to be addressed through improved education. Angel is an extreme case of abuse but there are many others too that mirror her thinking.

Angel has made a life out of laying down spreading her legs for whomever she pleases and then expects for all of us to pick up her tab. Hey I'd like a new Tesla model X so are you guys willing to make my payments for me including insurance?

Education. Check, agreed.
I can see you got it in for her. Fry her if you must, cut her balls off or whatever it takes to rebalance the scales of justice.
What a fucked up life she is living, this is not a well balanced happy person. Lets fuck her up.
I mean I get your point, what if this gets out? Anyone can do it then! (well not us nutters, but the bitches), just pop out 17 people through your pussy and your golden, showering in mooooney and living the high life, cocaine and crack all the way to the bank... Yea buddy, light weight, we got it made now!

 

[brycejones]

She's an extreme case. Who the hell cares about cherry picked examples meant to prove a larger point? Seriously?

But its simple, we can cure poverty by being more controlling over people.

 

[cytg111]

As a working father with two sons I paid for them from birth until they went out on their own. There were times I worked upwards of 80hrs a week to earn overtime so I could give them the things they needed in life.

When I look at people who don't even try yet expect for me to give them what I've earned I'm disgusted if not angered by it. If you want them to live this way then give them access to your personal bank account and pay for them.

If she had your upbringing she probably would have been a responsible parent and a hard worker and earner like yourself.

 

[Younigue]

Ok, I admit to not wanting to read all 8 pages of posts on this so if someone has already suggested this well, I'm doing it again.

Rather than force Birth Control how about spending money on actually educating people? It should include correcting where the education system failed them, motivation to get off assistance but also teach about self-esteem and self-worth as well as explicit education on how their bodies work (there is a lot of misinformation out there).

That being said, if someone told me I had to be on birth control, I'd break the law every day (There was almost a zero % chance I'd ever be able to have children due to an accident I had at the age of 2 but there was a slim chance and my family was poor. We were brought up to be embarrassed to use the system but if I had used the system there is no way I would allow any one to tell me I had to use birth control)! What country do you think you live in? If we're going to do something like that why don't we just go ahead and instead limit all families to just 1 child and even for that they MUST pass a psyche evaluation, health screen, drug test, and have an acceptable financial standing AND an application to the State for permission? Hmm, those things sound familiar. I'm not sure it would be America any more but at least MAGA would no longer be a country motto!

 

[Puffnstuff]

If she had your upbringing she probably would have been a responsible parent and a hard worker and earner like yourself.

It just bothers me because this isn't a partisan issue yet people try to make it into one. Even President Obama spoke about it on several occasions acknowledging that its a problem.

 

[Jaskalas]

Someone else mentioned something to the effect of, we have thrown trillions at the issue and not solved it.

Solved, as if it's a one time issue needing to be "fixed"?

The cost of living is an annual, reoccurring, cost. We currently subsidize it for people, and if there's an honest complaint it is that we have failed to do enough. With Basic Income I'd "throw" nearly $4 trillion at it every year. Because that's a sum people can actually make use of to maintain their place in the world, and in our economy as consumers.

It's not an expense so much as a necessary part of economic liquidity.