If they are attacking you, how do you know how much force they are going to use?
MotionMan
Yes. But not if that involves the person dying.
If they are attacking you, how do you know how much force they are going to use?
MotionMan
You don't, if you are sure they will kill you then kill them first, if not don't. you don't have the right to decide what they may or may not do, until you are sure they will kill you.
But you use enough force to neutralize the threat, and as he escalates to deadly force, then you do, too.
MotionMan
Yes. Exactly. What's your point?
But if you are not sure he is going to use deadly force, you do not?
MotionMan
Well I disagree, people get car jacked in the UK all the time without guns involved.
Regardless of the believability of the OP the point is that for the purposes of this thread the question is would you kill someone trying to steal your car while you are directly involved in the theft.
Even if the guy does assault you, punching you in your face I would argue it doesn't warrant lethal force.
Exactly.
if he assaults me thats endgame. im defending. im really sorry to hear theres a lot of carjacking in the UK, especially with no weapons used. mebbe the crooks are more bold knowing theres no chance of getting shot/ hurt badly for their attempt. carjacking here in AZ is pretty rare now, people here can carry a concealed weapon without a permit here.
But, by the time you realize he has escalated to deadly force, it would be too late for you.
Why is the attacker's life worth more to you than your own?
MotionMan
But, by the time you realize he has escalated to deadly force, it would be too late for you.
Why is the attacker's life worth more to you than your own?
MotionMan
It isn't, why would it be too late? If someone is running at me with a knife screaming or aiming a gun at me, kill them, these are just two examples of someone trying to kill you.
You don't, if you are sure they will kill you then kill them first, if not don't. you don't have the right to decide what they may or may not do, until you are sure they will kill you.
But what if he pulls out a syringe with a poison that will kill you in a year?
MotionMan
and when is that? when they pull a weapon on you? by then its to late for you to do anything.
you have a duty ot protect yourself and family. Someone attacks me i will do everything in my power to be the one going home. if that means i shoot the fucker i shoot him.
by that token i want to live to a ripe old age. So i try not to put myself in situations where that happens. so i do not go to bad parts of town, and i do not carjack cars. that way i increase my chances of living to a ripe old age.
He's trying to kill you, kill him.
Well I don't mean that there's a lot of car jacking over here, I just know that the majority of it doesn't involve a gun.
The thing is, I agree defend yourself, but that doesn't have to involve killing them.
i agree. i was a security officer and a bouncer at different points in my life, i have been licensed and bonded to carry a concealed weapon for the govt. ive placed myself in between total strangers that were fighting because i knew how to handle that kind of altercation. there isnt rampant violence and attacks where i live, but i feel like people that have had the training should step up and help in situations where others may need a hand. ive rarely had to use much force to help stop the incidents, and ive always had the control to stop before killing someone. i have broken some bones on people that wouldnt stop, the worst was a drugged up "fratboy" type that thought hitting his girlfriend was the right thing to do in a parking lot. he ended up with a broken knee, smashed hand (he missed me and hit a wall lol) and a dislocated jaw. he also got arrested for 3 counts of assault (his gf, the cashier at the store and me) as well as domestic violence and some cop charge of disturbing the peace. ive never been charged or accused of assault when helping someone else.
if someone is stealing my car he's got a weapon and threatening my life, otherwise he's not getting my car. your question is stupid and setup to make yourself look better.
fail.
OK, so the guy walks up to you, you are in the car at traffic lights, you aren't paying attention the guy opens your door (it is unlocked) grabs you pulls you out of the car, drops you on the road gets in the car, and attempts to drive away, This is the situation.
The sad thing is I know for a fact if many of you if you saw a 12 year old kid jump into your backyard to retrieve an errant ball you would probably gun them down and claim self defense from an unarmed 12 year old.
Sickening that you place no value on another humans life. Your mind desires a lawless society were people rape, pillage, and steal from each other without any remorse.
So, since we are in Fantasyland, I would simply whistle and my car would turn around and return to me, but not before ejecting the car thief from the car and into the nearest county jail, waking the deputy who was sleeping with his feet on the desk.
MotionMan
He's stealing your car to leave you in the middle of the desert and you will die in a few days. The only way to stop him is to kill him. Do you kill him to keep him from taking the car?
MotionMan
i agree. i was a security officer and a bouncer at different points in my life, i have been licensed and bonded to carry a concealed weapon for the govt. ive placed myself in between total strangers that were fighting because i knew how to handle that kind of altercation. there isnt rampant violence and attacks where i live, but i feel like people that have had the training should step up and help in situations where others may need a hand. ive rarely had to use much force to help stop the incidents, and ive always had the control to stop before killing someone. i have broken some bones on people that wouldnt stop, the worst was a drugged up "fratboy" type that thought hitting his girlfriend was the right thing to do in a parking lot. he ended up with a broken knee, smashed hand (he missed me and hit a wall lol) and a dislocated jaw. he also got arrested for 3 counts of assault (his gf, the cashier at the store and me) as well as domestic violence and some cop charge of disturbing the peace. ive never been charged or accused of assault when helping someone else.
1. When I am at an intersection, I am never not paying attention;
2. My car door is always locked unless I am entering or exiting the car;
3. My seatbelt is always on unless I am entering or exiting the car.
Also, 4. If I am sitting at a light, presumably it is red. If he takes off in my car against a red, the traffic will probably take care of him for me.
So, since we are in Fantasyland, I would simply whistle and my car would turn around and return to me, but not before ejecting the car thief from the car and into the nearest county jail, waking the deputy who was sleeping with his feet on the desk.
MotionMan