If you believe in heaven, I have a question for you

[adwilk]

Makes sense to me trevelyan... only i dont think the connection with others will be necessary due to the need to worship God...

 

[UglyCasanova]

The way I've heard it (can't remember where, but I know I've heard it) is that heaven is like everyone sitting around a giant bowl with fruit and giant spoons and everyone is helping everyone else out getting the fruit and eating it, while hell is the same situation except no one is helping one another out. I'm not sure what the fruit has to do with it, but that is how I remember and I have done a lot of drugs since then. Hell is not fire and eternal physical torture though, but maybe rather a mental anguish that one goes through.

Either way I don't think heaven and hell fit the very basic descriptions like "You sit around praising God 24/7" that some are saying, so no need to fret and think wow who wants that kind of heaven anyways. I think of it as an eternal acid trip: amazing things and complete bliss and you finally become close to God/the Universe/and everything.

Ok that said I'm an atheist (probably it would be more accurate to describe myself as an agnostic, but whatever) and I don't believe in God or an afterlife, but I do like to think that I have a spiritual side, just not the way you think of it usually.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: lozina
If you believe in heaven, I have a question for you

No, you're not invited. Go find your own eternal resting place.

-God

Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually in the Christian view of heaven, think of heaven as been a giant slave place, were you are the slave and god is the master. Think of hell as a place were you are tortured forever, and god is doing the torturing.

I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of typing things like that, because no one ELSE on this forum pays any attention to those sort of posts.

 

[Baked]

Is the heaven you speak of as segregated as the mortal world?

 

[JDrake]

You cant relate heaven to things that occur in live thats why its heaven... itll be better than your wife and kids, and if its heaven than its w/e you want sorta so you'd both get what you want.....

 

[Penth]

Well, i must say that i'm intrigued. The only problem i have with it is, either you believe the bible in its entirety and thats its complete, or you dont. I dont believe that there is any supplement or complement to it. Thats not to say that there is no other truth, but any variance of the scripture would be considered to be in error. That said, i too have studied many religions and this sounds like an excellent perspective on things i've chosen to discredit.

Are you saying you believe the bible in its entirety and that it is complete or you don't believe it at all? I believe that the way the Bible came together certainly leaves room for errors. I believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. After many centuries of translations by people who were not acting by the power of God (i.e. not his Prophets or Apostles), there are bound to be mistakes. Also, I think it is very likely that sections were removed because they weren't understood by those in charge, or in order to make things more difficult for others to understand so that they could maintain power.

And in response to Matthew 22:30 - At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven - I think that means that in the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage, meaning that this life is the time for that to happen. In the resurrection it will be too late for marriage.

To the OP:

Ok let's say my idea of heaven is to be with my wife and kids forever in peace and happiness and then I die.

This is one of the core beliefs of my faith. In Matthew 16:19 Christ gives Peter the power to make this possible. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Not everyone has this power and thus most marriages are "'til death do you part." This power was taken from the earth when the last of the Apostles were killed.

Now let's say my son lives on and starts his own family and has kids and now his idea of heaven is to be with his wife and kids forever...

So what it really becomes is that each "family" is a husband and wife. You would still be tied to your children in the same relationship you are now, only your children are grown, as will your children's children be grown, and so on. Just as it is in this life.

Or let's say I have a wife and at a young age I die. After years of mourning my wife finds a new man and falls in love. Now I'm still waiting in heaven for the love of my life while this new guy also loves the same woman. What happens when they pass away? In who's heaven does my wife go?

This is definetly more complicated than the other situations. Depending on if you were married by someone who had the power to bind things on earth and in heaven and someone with that power didn't loose that marriage here and in heaven, you would still be married to her in heaven. She and her second husband would then know that their marriage would only be for the duration of this life.

Of course all of this assumes that you all live well enough to go to heaven and that you are able to find one who holds this authority to marry or seal you together.

 

[adwilk]

I agree with jagec...

 

[Cattlegod]

i love it that when a logic flaw is pointed out in religion. instantly the formulate some "idea" that fits.

 

[kongs]

Yeah this kind of stuff is interesting, but the God is supposedly so divine that man cannot ever understand how "good" he is which means we could never understand (while on earth) what heaven or God is like.

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: joedrake
You cant relate heaven to things that occur in live thats why its heaven... itll be better than your wife and kids, and if its heaven than its w/e you want sorta so you'd both get what you want.....

So if you're a racist in the mortal world, you suddenly love black people when you go to heaven?

 

[adwilk]

Do i think the bible has errors? No... Do i think that there are some questions as to how it could be translated? Absolutely... Thats exactly what makes christianity christianity. We are given choice as to what the bible means... if we have a personal relationship with God the way He intended, then even if the bible means "red sea" or "reed sea" then the lesson learned from divine influence remains the same. Thats like the scripture that talks about a camel through the eye of the needle, thats an odd interpretation and probably should have been rope through the eye.... but, you see, a follower doesnt look for or try make the bible work, he just knows that it does.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: lozina
If you believe in heaven, I have a question for you

No, you're not invited. Go find your own eternal resting place.

-God

Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually in the Christian view of heaven, think of heaven as been a giant slave place, were you are the slave and god is the master. Think of hell as a place were you are tortured forever, and god is doing the torturing.

I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of typing things like that, because no one ELSE on this forum pays any attention to those sort of posts.

Just saying what is in the bible. Funny how christians and other god believers get mad when you point out the evils in their book.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i love it that when a logic flaw is pointed out in religion. instantly the formulate some "idea" that fits.

To be fair, science and philosophy do exactly the same thing.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: lozina
If you believe in heaven, I have a question for you

No, you're not invited. Go find your own eternal resting place.

-God

Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually in the Christian view of heaven, think of heaven as been a giant slave place, were you are the slave and god is the master. Think of hell as a place were you are tortured forever, and god is doing the torturing.

I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of typing things like that, because no one ELSE on this forum pays any attention to those sort of posts.

Just saying what is in the bible. Funny how christians and other god believers get mad when you point out the evils in their book.

How old are you? Just curious.

 

[adwilk]

There is nothing about heaven being a slave place... actually, going back to the marriage thing, the resurrected actually become married to Christ...

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i love it that when a logic flaw is pointed out in religion. instantly the formulate some "idea" that fits.

To be fair, science and philosophy do exactly the same thing.

i agree with philosophy, but not necessarly with science. the only assumption that is made is that our observations are real.

 

[DVK916]

Originally posted by: UglyCasanova

Originally posted by: DVK916

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: lozina
If you believe in heaven, I have a question for you

No, you're not invited. Go find your own eternal resting place.

-God

Originally posted by: DVK916
Actually in the Christian view of heaven, think of heaven as been a giant slave place, were you are the slave and god is the master. Think of hell as a place were you are tortured forever, and god is doing the torturing.

I hope you get a lot of pleasure out of typing things like that, because no one ELSE on this forum pays any attention to those sort of posts.

Just saying what is in the bible. Funny how christians and other god believers get mad when you point out the evils in their book.

How old are you? Just curious.

22

I have studied religion extensivly.

 

[Penth]

Originally posted by: adwilk
Do i think the bible has errors? No... Do i think that there are some questions as to how it could be translated? Absolutely... Thats exactly what makes christianity christianity. We are given choice as to what the bible means... if we have a personal relationship with God the way He intended, then even if the bible means "red sea" or "reed sea" then the lesson learned from divine influence remains the same. Thats like the scripture that talks about a camel through the eye of the needle, thats an odd interpretation and probably should have been rope through the eye.... but, you see, a follower doesnt look for or try make the bible work, he just knows that it does.

I think the eye of the needle in your example was talking about the gates that they had to go through to enter the city of Jerusalem. A camel barely fit through these gates and usually had to be stripped of whatever it was carrying in order to fit through. Showing that one had to be willing to be stripped of their possesions in order to enter the city.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Originally posted by: DVK916
22

I have studied religion extensivly.

Sounds like it.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: DVK916
22

I have studied religion extensivly.

spending hours on the "christianitysucks.com" forums doesn't count as research.

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i love it that when a logic flaw is pointed out in religion. instantly the formulate some "idea" that fits.

To be fair, science and philosophy do exactly the same thing.

i agree with philosophy, but not necessarly with science. the only assumption that is made is that our observations are real.

Well, it's not quite the same in science...but when new observations contradict a previous model, suddenly that model is scrapped and a brand-new one ushered out. For some scientists, there's no contradiction; it was just a model all along, and not expected to be perfect. But some of them seem to feel that some current theories are just The Way Things Are, and there are always plenty of them around to try to shoot down anyone postulating an improved model. For example, everyone opposing Einstein's work, and Einstein himself opposing a lot of the postulates of quantum physics.

 

[Malfeas]

Originally posted by: adwilk
There is nothing about heaven being a slave place... actually, going back to the marriage thing, the resurrected actually become married to Christ...

Jeez thats gay, I hope jesus gives some reach around.

And if there is not any sex, drugs, alcohol, music, pizza or beer in heaven, then it is a god damned boring hole.

 

[redgtxdi]

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him."

It's kind of like thinking about "Infinity".

You can't think of anything, see anything or hear any music so unbelievable as what you'll experience in Heaven.

BTW, there's always been 2 in the Bible.............

"heavens" = sky

"Heaven" = God's House.

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.


One of the hardest days of my life was trying to comfort my grandmother when my grandfather died a few years ago. He was a pastor of 40+ years and she still fights sorrow 'til this day. It's tough to take here on earth. No doubt about it.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: DVK916
22

I have studied religion extensivly.

spending hours on the "christianitysucks.com" forums doesn't count as research.

Originally posted by: Cattlegod

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
i love it that when a logic flaw is pointed out in religion. instantly the formulate some "idea" that fits.

To be fair, science and philosophy do exactly the same thing.

i agree with philosophy, but not necessarly with science. the only assumption that is made is that our observations are real.

Well, it's not quite the same in science...but when new observations contradict a previous model, suddenly that model is scrapped and a brand-new one ushered out. For some scientists, there's no contradiction; it was just a model all along, and not expected to be perfect. But some of them seem to feel that some current theories are just The Way Things Are, and there are always plenty of them around to try to shoot down anyone postulating an improved model. For example, everyone opposing Einstein's work, and Einstein himself opposing a lot of the postulates of quantum physics.

you are getting theories and laws confused. realitivity is a theory where conservation of energy is a law. theories simply describe how something works, a law IS how something works.

 

[ed21x]

Originally posted by: adwilk
There is nothing about heaven being a slave place... actually, going back to the marriage thing, the resurrected actually become married to Christ...

being 'married' to Christ was used as a metaphor referring to inheriting His kingdom, much like the metaphor for becoming 'Sons and Daughters' of Christ- neither of them to be taken literally. This ties in with Heaven perfectly, because to be in Heaven means to inherit the things the God has destined for man before men fell- and that would be to experience joy, peace, purpose, contetment, true love, eternal life, and peace.

On the other end of the spectrum, Hell would be a place where you cannot be in the presence of God. Now lay off the Southpark, it's not fire and brimstone. It's just a place for those that don't acknowledge God and Jesus, and is ruled by Satan- the first angel to turn against God. Pretty simple, actually.

 

[Midlander]

I think this whole topic is beyond our comprehension. Eventually, we will all know what's in store for us. But then it will be too late to tell anyone else.

Peace.