If you live off govt handouts, we should make the milk as sour as possible

[nehalem256]

Why isn't this done,:whiste:

Because big businesses that buy off politicians benefit from it, handsomely.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zIG4Bg&usg=AFQjCNFEFI5K8ZrQqLKnF8krXxd7ti_CPQ

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/companies-benefit-from-food-stamps_n_1878457.html

Profits from Poverty: How Food Stamps Benefit Corporations


http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/profitsfrompoverty04182013/

Funny didn't Republicans try to cut food stamps?

I guess it is really Democrats who are in the pockets of corporations after all...

 

[nehalem256]

Let's imagine we have a single mother who got knocked up by two or three different dead beat dads, none of whom pay child support because they are either unemployed, in jail, or dirtbags who hide from the law. She's not exactly a great decision-maker and lacks education and job skills, so she won't be able to find anything more than a minimum wage job.

This person doesn't have the time to work 8 hours of community service, and if she did (let's say she doesn't work at all) she couldn't afford the daycare costs.

Ultimately, the question becomes, are you willing to let her children die because their parents make bad decisions? Alternatively, do you want to pay enormous legal fees to take custody away from her and put her children in the costly foster care system? As a final alternative, would you prefer to spend tons of money to investigate each claim on a case-by-case basis so we can determine when a person actually can't do the community service hours, including follow-up investigations to determine whether circumstances change (maybe a dad gets out of prison, gets a job, and starts ponying up support for daycare), just so we can get some labor out of someone who may not be a very productive worker anyway?

Sounds like you are saying that welfare programs are essentially predicated on hostage taking.

I thought Democrats were against hostage taking?:hmm:

It's a nice thought to closely scrutinize how government welfare-system payments are utilized, but it really isn't very practical.

I don't think banning gift baskets is exactly "close scrutiny".

Its also amusing that you are essentially arguing that WIC is not a practical government program

 

[WHAMPOM]

why isn't this done?

why aren't a ton of restrictions placed on people on welfare/food stamps and/or getting the Earned Income Credit?

ie:
no cable, no pets, no cell phones
are cigarettes barred from the food stamp debit cards?
if you live in govt housing, you must do 8hrs community service around your housing unit every week.
etc

if you can afford them, then you don't need govt handouts

At first there were, but your GODS, the Corporations, lobbied to have them removed. Fast Foods are now trying for a slice of the pie. Tobacco and alcohol will be next.

 

[glenn1]

Unlike most of the progressives here, I support real welfare. Which is giving people down on their luck paid work, with money from my own pockets. You might want to try it sometime.

 

[Anarchist420]

it is beyond stupid to favor spending more to punish everyone and to keep welfare going.

Why isn't this done, Because big businesses that buy off politicians benefit from it, handsomely. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...F8krXxd7ti_CPQ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1878457.html Profits from Poverty: How Food Stamps Benefit Corporations

+1.

same goes with medicare (i.e., many physicians are net tax consumers due to medicare). it winds up helping unoriginal and/or greedy medical practices as much as it does poor people.

 

[Cozarkian]

I don't think banning gift baskets is exactly "close scrutiny".

Its also amusing that you are essentially arguing that WIC is not a practical government program

I didn't say any kind of reform is impossible or impractical. However, excluding a few items from food stamps is a far cry from monitoring how every welfare dollar is spent and enforcing community service requirements that are actually productive rather than just an extra burden with little benefit.

As for WIC, I don't know enough about the program to determine whether it is practical. I'd be willing to speculate, however, that there is a cost-effective point where further restrictions will increase the cost beyond the savings of reduced abuse and fewer restrictions would increase the cost of abuse beyond the savings of less monitoring. I also doubt the government has found that cost-effective point, because the people running the program probably error on the side of fewer restrictions/more abuse.

My point isn't that these programs can't be reformed to be better, it's merely that if we are going to have these programs it isn't going to be cost-effective to eliminate every possible instance of abuse (and that's assuming we can get a reasonable consensus on what constitutes abuse of the program).

 

[Jhhnn]

Not as mind boggling as somehow granting me a 0% tax rate while everyone else is paying 25%...

Happens all the time-

http://www.businessinsider.com/7000-millionaires-paid-no-income-tax-2012-9

You were saying?

 

[Genx87]

Happens all the time-

http://www.businessinsider.com/7000-millionaires-paid-no-income-tax-2012-9

You were saying?

That sounds really misleading. Out of those millionaires who didn't pay "income" tax. What were their avg capital gains rate?

 

[smitbret]

NVM

 

[smitbret]

Perhaps we might be better served paying for that eight hours. People willing to work would get a little more money to make their lives a little better, would develop base job skills, and would have a little something to put on a resume.

We are paying them with free or subsidized housing.

 

[Sonikku]

We need to build a contraption at check outs that sour the milk of any dairy bought with foodstamps. Want to hold down your cereal? Get a job.

 

[TheSiege]

And popping out 3 bastard kids with 3 baby daddies(2 of whom are in prison) isn't exactly what I would call "down on your luck".

Try being informed

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rs-are-not-america-s-real-welfare-queens.html

 

[cabri]

Happens all the time-

http://www.businessinsider.com/7000-millionaires-paid-no-income-tax-2012-9

You were saying?

Without knowing how their income was distributed; that is very misleading.

Example:

• If one has investments in Government bonds; the interest is non-taxable.
• Business losses can offset income.
• Prior losses can affect current income and taxes on it.

 

[Cozarkian]

That sounds really misleading. Out of those millionaires who didn't pay "income" tax. What were their avg capital gains rate?

Zero percent, because you do pay income tax on capital gains, they just get preferential treatment. There are numerous methods used by the wealthy to reach a 0% income tax rate, including.

1. Investment in tax-exempt bonds
2. Deduction of capital losses to offset capital gains.
3. Charitable donations
4. Foreign income tax credit

 

[nehalem256]

Try being informed

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...rs-are-not-america-s-real-welfare-queens.html

If we redefine welfare to include not welfare than single mothers aren't the real welfare queens!:sneaky:

 

[nehalem256]

Zero percent, because you do pay income tax on capital gains, they just get preferential treatment. There are numerous methods used by the wealthy to reach a 0% income tax rate, including.

1. Investment in tax-exempt bonds

And what do you think would happen to interest rates if this deduction was removed?:hmm:

2. Deduction of capital losses to offset capital gains.

How dare those rich people not pay taxes on the money they lose

3. Charitable donations

How dare those rich people donate money to feed poor people

4. Foreign income tax credit

By which you mean their income was taxed in another country. And the US doesn't then double tax said income. Those dastardly rich people. How dare they not allow their money to be taxed twice!

 

[Abraxas]

why isn't this done?

why aren't a ton of restrictions placed on people on welfare/food stamps and/or getting the Earned Income Credit?

ie:
no cable, no pets, no cell phones
are cigarettes barred from the food stamp debit cards?
if you live in govt housing, you must do 8hrs community service around your housing unit every week.
etc

if you can afford them, then you don't need govt handouts

I sincerely hope that at some point in your life you get to experience the high life of the average welfare recipient. Since they have it so good, I'm sure you will love every moment of it.

 

[QuantumPion]

Ditch food stamps/EBT, replace with government food stores that only supply flour, rice, milk, chicken, etc. No more free government money to spend on lottery tickets, liquor, cigarettes, lobster, drugs, etc.

 

[TerryMathews]

Ditch food stamps/EBT, replace with government food stores that only supply flour, rice, milk, chicken, etc. No more free government money to spend on lottery tickets, liquor, cigarettes, lobster, drugs, etc.

Its the way it used to work. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_cheese

 

[momeNt]

Ditch food stamps/EBT, replace with government food stores that only supply flour, rice, milk, chicken, etc. No more free government money to spend on lottery tickets, liquor, cigarettes, lobster, drugs, etc.

This was done before the government put private entities like the Red Cross out of the business of care of the needy during the great depression.

 

[boomerang]

IRS Paid at Least $13B in Improper Tax Credits

The IRS said it is aggressively fighting tax fraud, and is improving its efforts to police EITC payments.

They could do better if they weren't devoting so many resources to political witch hunts.

 

[nickbits]

I used to think like that but figure their life probably sucks anyway and that is enough punishment. I wouldn't have an issue if that was enacted though.

 

[brycejones]

And this is the problem with people like nehalem. This is the image in his head of people who have to go on any form of government assistance.

He is just jelly. No one except his toaster will sleep with him so he feels the need to look for punishments for everyone else.

 

[Mai72]

The times are changing.

When my grandmother was on public assistance government officials would go to the house and check her cupboard for food. They would also check to see if anyone else was working. Government workers back then were very intrusive. This was in the 1950-60's.

Not now. I know a guy who is getting a few thousand a month from government assistance. He also works on the side.

 

[nehalem256]

IRS Paid at Least $13B in Improper Tax Credits



They could do better if they weren't devoting so many resources to political witch hunts.

The agency's inspector general issued a report Tuesday saying the improper payments were between $13.3 billion and $15.6 billion. That's about a quarter of all EITC payments.

But remember welfare fraud is rare...