If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

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Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Back in college, I was able to live on almost minimum wage working part time. Rent was 300 dollars with a roommate and groceries were at most 150 dollars a month. Usually, they averaged closer to 100. Utilities were 50 dollars. Transportation involved walking or taking a bus. If I'm able to live on half minimum wage earnings, then the full minimum wage earnings should be more than enough for anyone.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
The issue is that usually they don't because we don't allow people to starve etc. we will provide subsidized housing like Section 8 and we also provide food stamps etc. So the government is then subsidizing the living for people that is indirectly allowing corporations to pay low wages.

What happens when because of that exchange the corporations are able to pay a low wage that results in the person applying for government assistance so we are then indirectly subsidizing the corporations ability to pay a low wage? I kind of feel as part of that exchange now because my tax dollars are subsidizing it.

You would have a point except that 9/10 jobs listed provide a livable wage for a single person.

We aren't subsidizing corporations. We are subsidizing women who pop out bastard children.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
If you can have a comfortable life flipping burgers, what is the motivation to go to school and learn real skills?

Not everyone would want to live in a one bedroom apartment. And there are people who actually have the drive and motivation to do something greater that a mind numbing repetitive low skill job.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
The issue is that usually they don't because we don't allow people to starve etc. we will provide subsidized housing like Section 8 and we also provide food stamps etc. So the government is then subsidizing the living for people that is indirectly allowing corporations to pay low wages.

That is correct and lots of people fail to see this. That fat tax bill you have to pay out of your pocket is subsidizing the wages of those workers.

It's called Lemon socialism, privatize the gains, socialize the losses and costs.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,439
211
106
Somebody has to flip those burgers or pick fruit or clean the bathrooms of your hotel room.
If that is the job they are competent for, not everybody is destined to succeed and work their way up the ladder you know, they should be able to cover food clothing and shelter in one of the richest societies on the planet however.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
That is correct and lots of people fail to see this. That fat tax bill you have to pay out of your pocket is subsidizing the wages of those workers.

It's called Lemon socialism, privatize the gains, socialize the losses and costs.

If you force corporations to pay people a "living wage" they will raise prices to account for the higher cost.

So, now instead of the rich paying taxes to subsidize poor people, the poor and middle class will have the burden in higher costs of goods.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,752
4,562
136
Living on minimum wage is easy. So much so in fact that Mcdonalds even made a budget on how to do it. Just don't buy groceries or gas for your car and don't overtip the guy cleaning your pool and you're good.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,129
1,604
126
I think that there should be no such thing as the "working poor." If you are willing to work, then you should receive enough salary to live without 24/7 financial stress.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I'll take a controversial stance for the sake of discussion: I'll say that if you put in a solid 40 hours of honest work a week, you should be able to put food on your own table and a pay for a roof over your own head - no matter what your job title is. That would be the rule even for the least-paid but most-popular jobs such as retail salesperson, cashier, waiter or janitor.

Notice how the people calling for "living wage" are never the ones doing the hiring or paying it. Way to speak truth to power when your modus operandi is find a cause you believe in, then look for someone else to pay for it.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
I think that there should be no such thing as the "working poor." If you are willing to work, then you should receive enough salary to live without 24/7 financial stress.

Without being a single mom of two kids. . . that's pretty much possible today. if you don't put yourself under a $200 month cell phone cntract, lease that new car and try and mortgage a house. . . .

personal responsibility is a bitch though.
 

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
If you force corporations to pay people a "living wage" they will raise prices to account for the higher cost.

So, now instead of the rich paying taxes to subsidize poor people, the poor and middle class will have the burden in higher costs of goods.

I never said force corporations to pay higher wages.

What I am saying is remove all taxpayer funded aid such as food stamps, section 8 housing,Medicaid etc...

Then taxpayers will no longer be funding out of thier pockets low wage jobs for private for profit corporations.

Then the free market will have to decide how to compensate employees without the assistance of taxpayers out of public funds.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
I think that there should be no such thing as the "working poor." If you are willing to work, then you should receive enough salary to live without 24/7 financial stress.

HA, no.. no no no 1000 times

These minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers for people. They are high school or college jobs for people, not end all be all jobs. If you want to work a blue collar job, become an apprentice and work your way up into a trade, whether its a plumber, lineman, welder, etc.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Notice how the people calling for "living wage" are never the ones doing the hiring or paying it. Way to speak truth to power when your modus operandi is find a cause you believe in, then look for someone else to pay for it.

What an utterly stupid post.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
Notice how the people calling for "living wage" are never the ones doing the hiring or paying it. Way to speak truth to power when your modus operandi is find a cause you believe in, then look for someone else to pay for it.

Like i said, people are now having an expectation that having a job....ANY job.... means you can live a lavish lifestyle and pay for your kids college and buy new cars and a house. . ..

STICK IT TO THE COMPANY! THEY OWE YOU!!

It basically comes down to one thing: Jealousy.
They want what other people have but don't want to work for it. And it's always BIG COMPANIES that are the target. You think the CEO didn't earn that position? You think he's straight out of highschool, or myabe didn't even finish highschool and got dropped into that chair?
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I never said force corporations to pay higher wages.

What I am saying is remove all taxpayer funded aid such as food stamps, section 8 housing,Medicaid etc...

Then taxpayers will no longer be funding out of thier pockets low wage jobs for private for profit corporations.

Then the free market will have to decide how to compensate employees without the assistance of taxpayers out of public funds.
This I'm all for.

In fact, I'm curious, who isn't?
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,274
202
106
If you can have a comfortable life flipping burgers, what is the motivation to go to school and learn real skills?

If thats true, where are you going to find people to flip your burgers? If nobody should be flipping burgers because it is beneath everybody, and everybody should have more skills and a better job, I hope you are prepared to cook your own burgers.

Fact is, there are lots of jobs that you dont want to do, that somebody has to do. Sewer maintenance. Plumbing. Nursing the elderly and infirm. Proctologist. Urologist. Gastroenterologist. Flipping burgers. Cashier.

Just because you see a job as undesirable and/or easy, does not mean it is not necessary for society. If society deems that such a job is necessary, should that person not be paid a liveable wage?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Just because you see a job as undesirable and/or easy, does not mean it is not necessary for society. If society deems that such a job is necessary, should that person not be paid a liveable wage?

Per the stats 9/10 jobs listed did pay a livable wage.

Also, there are plenty of jobs that are done by HS kids for which talking about livable wage is silly.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
If thats true, where are you going to find people to flip your burgers? If nobody should be flipping burgers because it is beneath everybody, and everybody should have more skills and a better job, I hope you are prepared to cook your own burgers.

Fact is, there are lots of jobs that you dont want to do, that somebody has to do. Sewer maintenance. Plumbing. Nursing the elderly and infirm. Proctologist. Urologist. Gastroenterologist. Flipping burgers. Cashier.

Just because you see a job as undesirable and/or easy, does not mean it is not necessary for society. If society deems that such a job is necessary, should that person not be paid a liveable wage?

As for your last question. . . that's for the individual to decide. Why are we trying to group-think a solution to a problem that we can't hope to understand. I don't know everyones circumstances. . and if i don't fully understand the problem, how successful is my solution going to be?

maybe someone doesn't NEED a living wage, maybe just some spending cash on the side? who are we to decide for another individual?
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Flipping fast food isn't necessary. In fact, it's highly redundant, and increased consumption of the product leads to the need for more heart specialists and undertakers.

If those jobs paid their true value (or rather lack thereof) to society, they would pay in the negative numbers.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
no production increases occur as the minimum wage goes up so the minimum wage is really worthless... the purchasing power of someone on min wage will remain about the same no matter how much the min wage is raised. you will be able to buy exactly the same as you did before other than maybe you'll have an easier time paying off debt you may have carried over.

the minimum wage hurts people who save... think about all the old people on fixed income who then cant have as much.

redistribution (a minimum income) reduces production and there is no net benefit to society.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,129
1,604
126
HA, no.. no no no 1000 times

These minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers for people. They are high school or college jobs for people, not end all be all jobs. If you want to work a blue collar job, become an apprentice and work your way up into a trade, whether its a plumber, lineman, welder, etc.

I'm not suggesting a "first class" lifestyle or career. I'm saying that instead, they should be able to support themselves.

You work at a job full time, even the shittiest lowest paying job, it ought to be enough for a safe, but low end, apartment, as well as health care, feeding yourself and your children, etc ....

If you are in a career then you most likely already have a house, or can afford a mortgage, and a decent car, and yes, would like to make more money, but, make enough to live pretty comfortably.

I'm suggesting that people who work shitty dead end jobs should be able to get "a piece of the pie".

People should not live to work. They should instead work to live.




EDIT BELOW HERE
I know I am being an idealist.
I would say feeding "yourself and your children", as in, If somebody has a job/works, they should not require food stamps or special tax credits. They should be able to pay for food and housing and transportation on their own and not rely on government subsidies.
I think the livingwage.mit.edu is a bit high, as I think it is perfectly reasonable to rely on family members, or team up with friends who also have kids (like, they take turns babysitting, or ride sharing, etc).

$8 or whatever the Min Wage is currently is not at all enough. I do not think it should be 300% of what it is. That does not seem resonable.


I'd suggest setting a minimum wage at something around $15 for places with a very high cost of living, and around $10 for places where the cost of living is lower. It won't be a rich life of luxury, but, at anybody who makes that kind of money can get by somewhat comfortably and still have a little bit "left over."
 
Last edited:

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
I'm not suggesting a "first class" lifestyle or career. I'm saying that instead, they should be able to support themselves.

You work at a job full time, even the shittiest lowest paying job, it ought to be enough for a safe, but low end, apartment, as well as health care, feeding yourself and your children, etc ....

If you are in a career then you most likely already have a house, or can afford a mortgage, and a decent car, and yes, would like to make more money, but, make enough to live pretty comfortably.

I'm suggesting that people who work shitty dead end jobs should be able to get "a piece of the pie".

People should not live to work. They should instead work to live.

Nope. . . . a living wage IMO if you're going to dicuss it at all is a SINGLE PERSON. Kids is a life choice and you should wait until you're financially stable... otherwise "fair" goes out the window.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
You work at a job full time, even the shittiest lowest paying job, it ought to be enough for a safe, but low end, apartment, as well as health care, feeding yourself and your children, etc ....

As per the numbers that is somewhere around $25/hr for a single mom with 2 kids

I can only hope that the Democratic Party embraces the common-sense idea of a "living wage"
 
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