If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
They had less food and money than the unemployed here, does that count?

No? (and would be a silly comparison for many reasons)

This is not an argument about the merits of capitalism or communism. This is just the obvious fact that the government can and does create jobs.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,473
2
0
It worked for most Americans after the New Deal and it's socialistic policies. That's when the middle class truly emerged in America. Since Reaganites have started undoing these policies, it hasn't worked for anyone but those at the top.
Logic states that socialist policies were what worked.
Of course, that will lead you to some inconvenient truths about both parties.

And what of the damage Clinton did? That doesn't count?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
So it worked for the first 237 years and has been broken for the previous 30 and you want to throw it out?

Logic dictates seeing what changed in the last 30 years. Of course, that will lead you to some inconvenient truths about both parties.

America has seen several episodes such as this in the past. The real question is more likely 'what was different from 1940-1980', not what is different now.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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For the top 1% elites, maybe. It's been a road to nowhere for the middle and working class for the last 30 years.

The US has crony Capitalism you pathetic excuse for a human being.

Capitalism is freedom and has done more to advance prosperity and bring people out of poverty than socialism. It takes a despicable moron like yourself to support socialism.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,438
211
106
No democracy is freedom not capitalism
I pointed out before
Hitler's Germany was a fascist state with lots and lots of capitalism
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
While I agree that libertarianism covers a large number of different philosophies, basically every one of them outside of the most extreme versions (which are basically anarchists) believes that the role of government is to protect private property. In fact I would say that libertarians view the protection of private property as the primary goal of government.

Eskimo is correct based on the libertarianism that i've been studying. The only valid role of government is to protect the individual natural rights of each human. And even in that regard, the relationship is completely voluntary. There is no forced relationship. It's not a protection racket.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,307
136
Why you strawman?!

Am I doing this right? I'm so confused.

No. A straw man is to misrepresent another person's argument into something more easily defeated.
For example, someone argues that government should protect private property. Another responds using an example involving public property. Then, when corrected, they assert that the only way that government protects private property is through the police, totally ignoring other means like civil courts, real estate laws, etc. I'm not gonna touch on the million ways to steal someone's property with the proverbial pen here, but suffice to say they exist and in ways you've likely never dreamed of.

You also used the No True Scotsman fallacy. Not every libertarian wants to have to camp out defending their property 24/7. I for one would like to be able to go to work or take a vacation with the reasonable assurance that it will still be there as I left it when I get back. Without some minimal form of government to maintain law and order (with courts as well as police), that would not be a reasonable expectation. Buying insurance is sound capitalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
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The US has crony Capitalism you pathetic excuse for a human being.

Capitalism is freedom and has done more to advance prosperity and bring people out of poverty than socialism. It takes a despicable moron like yourself to support socialism.

If you are going to use this lame excuse for Capitalism's failures, that goes both ways, since USSR had crony Socialism.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
While I agree that libertarianism covers a large number of different philosophies, basically every one of them outside of the most extreme versions (which are basically anarchists) believes that the role of government is to protect private property. In fact I would say that libertarians view the protection of private property as the primary goal of government.

I don't know about THE primary, but one of the primary. Enforcement of contracts would be another, though I suppose from a certain viewpoint that falls under protection of private property as well.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Hey asshole, next time you see a cop or fireman or soldier, ask them who they work for.

Most police and firemen work for municipalities, not the bloated federal government. I find that most people are OK with their local government, it's the out of control $4T/yr federal government that's doing everything it can to legislate us into oblivion that some people have a problem with.

And many people find the job of soldiering to be of questionable moral status these days, considering they haven't really protected the US in a long time, but spend far more time on the attack, protecting or creating profits for private interests.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
No democracy is freedom not capitalism
I pointed out before
Hitler's Germany was a fascist state with lots and lots of capitalism

Democracy doesn't necessarily mean freedom. You should think before you type.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
The middle class existed before there was any socialism in the US.

Pretty sure he's talking about the income share of the top 10% in America, which also happened to coincide with the largest and broadest improvement of living standards the US has ever seen.

 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Pretty sure he's talking about the income share of the top 10% in America, which also happened to coincide with the largest and broadest improvement of living standards the US has ever seen.


Excellent chart. But GOP thinks the roaring 20s were the glory days for the US.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,577
4,659
136
Excellent chart. But GOP thinks the roaring 20s were the glory days for the US.

US steel, hell yes.

That's Standard knowledge.

The Gould-en era.

Hill, those times could Rockefeller's soul; resistance was feudal.
 
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