If you put in 8 hours/day every week, should you receive a wage you can live upon?

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Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Good job, spidey. I had a similar experience, first job in Sr. year of HS i started at minimum wage(6.75) working the register and bussing tables at a pizza place. I was always on time, didn't call in sick and did my job and more, without being asked. within a year i was shift supervisor making 8.50. Three years later i was still there, but as an assistant manager making 11.00. Wasn't a career i wanted to be in forever so i quit. My first job out of college was at walgreens. my wife was working at ikea at the time. we bought a house together and then had a kid. it started getting tough financially so i went out and bought a few books and studied at night after work...i got a certification from Cisco on my own. (my college degree was linguistics which didn't translate into much work, but at least i didn't have student debt) That put me into a job at $20/hr. my wife took classes during the day and worked at night and got her pharmacy technician license, which brought her from minimum wage to $16/hr...
It's a tough road out there.
If you want it, go and get it.
Way to go Lithium.

One of my favorite Radio hosts, likes to say it is not equal outcome, but equal opportunity.

Everyone, black, white, red, yellow, has an equal opportunity in the United States, now more so than ever.

-John
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,648
201
106
Bullshit. You didn't pay attention to what I said.

Skilled labor is labor that has demonstrated and trained skills.

A 6 week training course and you consider that skilled labor?

Why the hell didn't you listen when I said if I had to do over again I'd be a plumber? It takes YEARS to learn the skills of that trade. Hell, I get it with the IT industry "hey, I'm certified, gimme a job". You may be licensed/certified but you have no skills.

You aren't getting what I was saying. Good luck to you. You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

6 weeks of training in your mind with no demonstrated on the job skills = skilled labor? Really man? Really?

Do you even know what skilled labor is?


you do realize as part of a CDL license you have to have X many hours of driving experience over 6 months? you don't just take a multiple choice test and BAM, you have a license.


You. Don't. Get. It.
A LPN and an RN with no experience is consider skilled labor.
A Licensed certified CDL driver with no experience is skilled labor.

Whether labor is skilled or not is determined by the work to be done, not by the worker doing the job.
Plumbing? Skilled
Janitorial? Unskilled
Pilot? Skilled
Checkout Clerk? Unskilled
Nurse? Skilled
Class A Driver? Skilled

Not just anyone can do either of these jobs. you must be trained and licensed and have minimal OTJ experience, which is accomplished as part of your certification.

A person who is properly trained and licensed can perform this job just as adequately as a person who has been doing this job for 5 years.

Only you could concoct a situation where entry level people are unhirable in a national shortage.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
When Employers are telling their Employees how to get Public Funds to better their lives, the Employer is not paying a suitable Wage.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Everyone, black, white, red, yellow, has an equal opportunity in the United States, now more so than ever.

Not really. White privilege is probably the biggest type of social welfare that gives people a major advantage in life. People with privileges just like to say stuff like that because it makes them feel like they actually earned what they have. There are lots of other privileges, too.

People don't have equal opportunities. Much of what we have is a combination of privilege, parental wealth, luck, and your own work.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Not really. White privilege is probably the biggest type of social welfare that gives people a major advantage in life. People with privileges just like to say stuff like that because it makes them feel like they actually earned what they have. There are lots of other privileges, too.

People don't have equal opportunities. Much of what we have is a combination of privilege, parental wealth, luck, and your own work.

White privilege. . . LOL.

You have a one track mind dude.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
76
Not really. White privilege is probably the biggest type of social welfare that gives people a major advantage in life. People with privileges just like to say stuff like that because it makes them feel like they actually earned what they have. There are lots of other privileges, too.

People don't have equal opportunities. Much of what we have is a combination of privilege, parental wealth, luck, and your own work.
Nope.

There is plenty of opportunity in America for people that will work hard.

-John
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Not really. White privilege is probably the biggest type of social welfare that gives people a major advantage in life. People with privileges just like to say stuff like that because it makes them feel like they actually earned what they have. There are lots of other privileges, too.

People don't have equal opportunities. Much of what we have is a combination of privilege, parental wealth, luck, and your own work.

then how come the asians and mexicans are doing so much better than the blacks and moving up much faster than the whites?
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Work ethic and nepotism is the formula for Mexican success. Which is all well and good, but if a white person is nepotistic they are usually labeled racists, perpetrators of 'white privilege'.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
you do realize as part of a CDL license you have to have X many hours of driving experience over 6 months? you don't just take a multiple choice test and BAM, you have a license.


You. Don't. Get. It.
A LPN and an RN with no experience is consider skilled labor.
A Licensed certified CDL driver with no experience is skilled labor.

Whether labor is skilled or not is determined by the work to be done, not by the worker doing the job.
Plumbing? Skilled
Janitorial? Unskilled
Pilot? Skilled
Checkout Clerk? Unskilled
Nurse? Skilled
Class A Driver? Skilled

Not just anyone can do either of these jobs. you must be trained and licensed and have minimal OTJ experience, which is accomplished as part of your certification.

A person who is properly trained and licensed can perform this job just as adequately as a person who has been doing this job for 5 years.

Only you could concoct a situation where entry level people are unhirable in a national shortage.

Yeah. You don't get it.

Welcome to the real world. It is as scary as they say
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
then how come the asians and mexicans are doing so much better than the blacks and moving up much faster than the whites?

Asians often have to work much harder than whites to get to the same place because white privilege is an incredible form of welfare. Though, many Asians benefit from having very well educated parents.

White privilege involves diverting economic wealth away from blacks throughout America history (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.) and accumulating the wealth among whites, who now benefit from that diverted economic wealth.

If we want to make opportunities more equal, maybe we should tax privilege as a form of income. As it's right now, it's among the most powerful form of societal and governmental welfare that humanity has ever seen.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
Asians often have to work much harder than whites to get to the same place because white privilege is an incredible form of welfare. Though, many Asians benefit from having very well educated parents.

White privilege involves diverting economic wealth away from blacks throughout America history (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.) and accumulating the wealth among whites, who now benefit from that diverted economic wealth.

If we want to make opportunities more equal, maybe we should tax privilege as a form of income. As it's right now, it's among the most powerful form of societal and governmental welfare that humanity has ever seen.[/QUOTE]

how do you quantify it? sounds kinda subjective
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
you do realize as part of a CDL license you have to have X many hours of driving experience over 6 months? you don't just take a multiple choice test and BAM, you have a license.


You. Don't. Get. It.
A LPN and an RN with no experience is consider skilled labor.
A Licensed certified CDL driver with no experience is skilled labor.

Whether labor is skilled or not is determined by the work to be done, not by the worker doing the job.
Plumbing? Skilled
Janitorial? Unskilled
Pilot? Skilled
Checkout Clerk? Unskilled
Nurse? Skilled
Class A Driver? Skilled

Not just anyone can do either of these jobs. you must be trained and licensed and have minimal OTJ experience, which is accomplished as part of your certification.

A person who is properly trained and licensed can perform this job just as adequately as a person who has been doing this job for 5 years.

Only you could concoct a situation where entry level people are unhirable in a national shortage.

I took FOUR WHOLE YEARS to get a certification of bachelors in business.

Am I super dooper qualified for everything in the business world now? :whiste:

Give me my CEO position bitch boy.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,648
201
106
I took FOUR WHOLE YEARS to get a certification of bachelors in business.

Am I super dooper qualified for everything in the business world now? :whiste:

Give me my CEO position bitch boy.


A CEO is not skilled labor...
They are neither skilled... nor labor.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
Glad I left working for $$$ per hour back in the 80's. Got tired of being laid off and decided there must be a better way and took a different approach to making money. Straight commission works for me! It's the purest example of where your results tell you exactly what you're worth.
 

Lithium381

Lifer
May 12, 2001
12,458
2
0
Glad I left working for $$$ per hour back in the 80's. Got tired of being laid off and decided there must be a better way and took a different approach to making money. Straight commission works for me! It's the purest example of where your results tell you exactly what you're worth.

Turning tricks on the corner? haha i kid i kid



i work now as salaried . . . and i think i work more hours than i did before but i'm not compensated. at the same time it's more stable income..
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
Turning tricks on the corner? haha i kid i kid



i work now as salaried . . . and i think i work more hours than i did before but i'm not compensated. at the same time it's more stable income..

My whole point is that there are boundless ways of improving one's situation. A boss that hires you for $X per hour is just a job. That's all. Sometimes a job is an opportunity to pay rent and eat. If one is still in that same place, financially, after working a few years, maybe it's time to reevaluate self and not the employer. The toughest question is for a person to look at themself in the mirror and as that person ask "what are you doing about it?" If the answer is I don't know, or I will get up tomorrow and do the same thing, then you haven't really come to an understanding with your self that will progress you. Something must change or you will do the same thing day after day with no different results. Believe me when I say I have eaten apples for dinner and wondered how I was going to buy diapers for my kids. If I built my life on excuses or expectations of entitlements we'd still be there.
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
If you can have a comfortable life flipping burgers, what is the motivation to go to school and learn real skills?

Who says that being on the brink of poverty and merely being able to sustain one's self is a "comfortable life"?

By the way, education is NOT the solution. If everyone went to college...surprise! We'd have the world's most highly-educated McDonalds and Walmart employees (and also the world's most heavily student-loan indebted).

In fact, recent studies suggest that a great many college graduates, perhaps as many as 50%, perform work that requires LESS than a college education and often LESS than a high school education. This may even true for STEM graduates. References:

Why Did 17 Million Students Go to College?

Why Are Recent College Graduates Underemployed? University Enrollments and Labor Market Realities

From Wall Street to Wal-Mart: Why College Graduates Are Not Getting Good Jobs


The Real Science Gap


The sad reality is that we just simply do not have enough college-education-requiring knowledge-based jobs for everyone. No matter how hard we try, at least for the foreseeable future, someone is going to have to work dead-end poverty-wage jobs at McDonalds and Walmart.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,047
10,224
136
If you can have a comfortable life flipping burgers, what is the motivation to go to school and learn real skills?

Because it's one of the most boring jobs in existence, not to mention stressful if we're talking about somewhere like McD?
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
There are currently many programs to lift ones self out of poverty and improve ones self available, there is really no excuse to not improve your means.

For example if you are destitute you qualify for 2 federal student loans, a pell grant, state level grants, and in many cases individual college's grants/scholarships.

The federal money has been so lucrative that an industry in paper certifications and degrees has boomed, causing many certificates to lose value in the industry because of poor performance of graduates of these programs. . . So if it seems too easy, too convenient, and entirely too internet based, it may be a poor choice. You miss the hands on and the networking.

My brother in law has a 100% online course obtained nuclear physics master, and scores of trade certifications, all from online education. He manages a U-HAUL rental business.

Hvac, electrical, all engineer, machining, medical/sciences, math, business, law, and bureaucrat worker bee are all lucrative avenue's though, and there are many well regarded programs available regionally. For instance OSU is one of the top schools for Botany in the nation, and I know of several trade schools in my area that offer well regarded apprenticeship programs of all sorts. My area is not unique in this respect as the same is true nationally. This is the US, not Germany, and so there is a poor interface in my opinion between high school and the opportunities available regionally. . . As well as a culture of apathy and bohemianism(thanks hippies), So you have to have initiative.

The answer is self Improvement blind to race, not $12h-$15h-$20h minimum wage. . . Or bleetings of racial privilege.

If anything there is more money and opportunity available for minorities!

Yet the bleetings persist.

I even know a guy who worked pulling green chain at a laminate mill, moved to driving a fork lift, learned to move semis around the expansive company property, then got a CDL and now does warehouse runs nationally. Aka the bootstrap method. Not much time at home, but he makes a lot of money. If you have a clean record and can pass a physical, ( and piss test) you can be bonded and get a full time job that pays good and has advancement and a pension. You require no degree of any sort for many of these jobs.

Opportunity is out there, if one applies ones self. . . And takes an honest look at the job market. Avoid arts degrees. Gird your loins for a brutal English major market if you dare tread those waters. . . Though if you want to travel and want to experience a different culture you could prepare yourself to teach English abroad (I know a guy that does this in Japan), and businesses of all sorts use people with strong foreign language skills. Maybe Chinese, Spanish or Arabic would be good languages to pick up, the US is at the center of a vast global trade hegemony after all. We have to adjust to the current paradigm.
 
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Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Ah, I love all the bullshit personal stories that pop up in these threads.

"My uncle was born as a one-legged pony but managed to work his way up from a floor sweeper to KING OF THE TOWN!

My simple pea brain erroneously concludes that it's possible for everyone to pull their socks up and work hard and get what they want."
 
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Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
3,535
1
0
Ah, I love all the bullshit personal stories that pop up in these threads.

"My uncle was born as a one-legged pony but managed to work his way up from a floor sweeper to KING OF THE TOWN!

My simple pea brain erroneously concludes that it's possible for everyone to pull their socks up and work hard and get what they want."


King of the town would probably require some polsci, or an army. Depending on the town.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Ah, I love all the bullshit personal stories that pop up in these threads.

"My uncle was born as a one-legged pony but managed to work his way up from a floor sweeper to KING OF THE TOWN!

My simple pea brain erroneously concludes that it's possible for everyone to pull their socks up and work hard and get what they want."
Ah I love the alternative from useless liberal assholes like yourself.

"Wahh! Wahh! Gimmie! Gimmie! Wahh! Someone else has racial privilege! Wahhh! Wahhh! Gimmie everything I want!"

"Wahh! Waahh! I demand racial privilege! Wahh! Wahh! Gimmie my demands!"

"Wahh! Everyone do for me! Now!! I demand it!!!"

"Wahh! How dare anyone tell me I have to do anything! !!!!!"

Pretty much the same dumb contradictory laziness regurigitated over and over again.
 
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