If you were drafted tomorrow..

[Babbles]

I am a forensic chemist type person, and I heard some rumors there may be chemical weapons out there in the world. So, guess I could do my part if absolutely needed to.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
edit: and I am not confined to laws. I have my own laws. I'm at a higher moral level (i forgot his name but there was a psychologist that created various 'levels' and those that only abided by the law were lower than those that did what they felt to be morally correct.)

ROTFLMAO at that whole statement. Oooh, "a higher moral level" ... "my own laws" ...

- M4H

 

[Piano Man]

I'd stay here and protest it, and I would probably be put in jail. But there is no way I'd do it. To die for an unjust cause is a tragedy.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab
edit: and I am not confined to laws. I have my own laws. I'm at a higher moral level (i forgot his name but there was a psychologist that created various 'levels' and those that only abided by the law were lower than those that did what they felt to be morally correct.)

ROTFLMAO at that whole statement. Oooh, "a higher moral level" ... "my own laws" ...

- M4H

yes, thats right. i'm not trying to be funny. i have my own moral laws. I don't always believe our government is right. I"m not a brainwashed drone that happens to be a U.S. citizen, i'm a thinking, rational creature, i will fight or do what i wish to do (within reason of course...)

 

[Dragnov]

Even though it turned out Retta was kidding, he's not free to flame because of one's opinion on the subject, esp. since it was unprovoked.


end of discussion.

edit: and I am not confined to laws. I have my own laws. I'm at a higher moral level (i forgot his name but there was a psychologist that created various 'levels' and those that only abided by the law were lower than those that did what they felt to be morally correct.)

Ah yes, the hippie way. "Everyone is different and have different values. Therefore, I am above the law and follow my own rules." Yes, thats great. Thats what makes people think they are righteous in flying planes full of people into tall buildings.

Everyone is different yes, but in order to have order to have a functioning society we should abide by the law. That is the purpose of a government.

In your society he is free to flame if he wishes. Maybe hes on a moral high ground and doesn't have to agree by YOUR way of thinking?

Oh yeah. End of discussion.

[edit] This has little to do with morality, but rather LAW. Without law, you have anarchy. With anarchy, everyone is free do as they wish. Free to murder, free to rape, free to whatever... After all, it's all relative.

 

[GiLtY]

I'll do it, it's my duty as a citizen. Though I disagree with some of government's agenda, but I'll do it to defend my family.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Even though it turned out Retta was kidding, he's not free to flame because of one's opinion on the subject, esp. since it was unprovoked.


end of discussion.

edit: and I am not confined to laws. I have my own laws. I'm at a higher moral level (i forgot his name but there was a psychologist that created various 'levels' and those that only abided by the law were lower than those that did what they felt to be morally correct.)

Ah yes, the hippie way. "Everyone is different and have different values. Therefore, I am above the law and follow my own rules." Yes, thats great. Thats what makes people think they are righteous in flying planes full of people into tall buildings.

Everyone is different yes, but in order to have order to have a functioning society we should abide by the law.

Okay, to further illustrate what I was talking about, check it out here.

Now i'm not even a fan of kohlberg's, i was just trying to demonstrate something that i believe in.

edit: and no, i'm not saying everyone is different, and has different values, what I am saying is that while 99% of the time i act in accordance with our systematic laws, when it comes to very important decisions such as the possibility of killing innocents (or being killed) and so forth, before I put myself in that position, I will have to justify it to MYSELF, not to anyone, not our govt, not you. I'm still not sure where I stand on the war. Admittedly I'm a bit confused. Like all of us on the board, I do not have all the facts, nor do I have the ability to see the motivations of our leaders. Am I implying they have ulterior motives? No, but it is possible, even if there is a .00001% chance, I cannot discount this.

 

[Nocturnal]

From watching all of this go down I would honestly say I would go for it and do what I gotta do even if I die. At least I know I went trying to fight for what this country stands for, freedom.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Even though it turned out Retta was kidding, he's not free to flame because of one's opinion on the subject, esp. since it was unprovoked.


end of discussion.

edit: and I am not confined to laws. I have my own laws. I'm at a higher moral level (i forgot his name but there was a psychologist that created various 'levels' and those that only abided by the law were lower than those that did what they felt to be morally correct.)

Ah yes, the hippie way. "Everyone is different and have different values. Therefore, I am above the law and follow my own rules." Yes, thats great. Thats what makes people think they are righteous in flying planes full of people into tall buildings.

Everyone is different yes, but in order to have order to have a functioning society we should abide by the law. That is the purpose of a government.

In your society he is free to flame if he wishes. Maybe hes on a moral high ground and doesn't have to agree by YOUR way of thinking?

Oh yeah. End of discussion.

[edit] This has little to do with morality, but rather LAW. Without law, you have anarchy. With anarchy, everyone is free do as they wish. Free to murder, free to rape, free to whatever... After all, it's all relative.

He blatantly threatened physical harm to a guy because of the guys decision. Do you honestly not see anything wrong with this? I think you're pretty screwed up if you don't personally.

 

[Dragnov]

He blatantly threatened physical harm to a guy because of the guys decision. Do you honestly not see anything wrong with this? I think you're pretty screwed up if you don't personally.

Hey, in your world he can do so if he wishes. After all, he is not confined to laws. He can have his own laws. He may think he is at a higher moral level. This is how you think isnt it? After all, it's all relative remember.


You're proving my point with your statement above. Law is necessary and should be followed for a functioning, civil society, despite everything being relative. It is a concession we must make if you expect to have some kind of order in this world.

 

[Atlantean]

Well since I am Canadian, if I got drafted by the US military I would say screw you... and I doubt there will be a draft in Canada.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

He blatantly threatened physical harm to a guy because of the guys decision. Do you honestly not see anything wrong with this? I think you're pretty screwed up if you don't personally.

Hey, in your world he can do so if he wishes. After all, he is not confined to laws. He can have his own laws. He may think he is at a higher moral level. This is how you think isnt it? After all, it's all relative remember.


You're proving my point with your statement above. Law is necessary and should be followed for a functioning, civil society, despite everything being relative. It is a concession we must make if you expect to have some kind of order in this world.

No, I'm not proving your point. Its not only you, but i have seen members on this site have this one way or the other way attitude, just black or white. Yes, you don't always have to be confined to laws, but its relative, it depends. For example, what I really said, as above:

"when it comes to very important decisions such as the possibility of killing innocents (or being killed) and so forth"

threatening to kick some guys as5 because he makes a comment on the net that he wont' want to fight is not really justified.

not sure if one wants to kill or be killed and acting in accordance with that persons belief system is justified (if the person is a rational thinker)

 

[ElFenix]

by joining a society you agree to be subject to its laws and resolutions

 

[kleinesarschloch]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
by joining a society you agree to be subject to its laws and resolutions

it's 1939 in germany. you're a law abiding citizen about to be drafted for an all out offensive war against many other countries. the propaganda ministry uses lies to make you perceive a threat and justify the war. you have a chance to escape to, lets say, switzerland. do you do it, or do you do your duty?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: kleinesarschloch

Originally posted by: ElFenix
by joining a society you agree to be subject to its laws and resolutions

it's 1939 in germany. you're a law abiding citizen about to be drafted for an all out offensive war against many other countries. the propaganda ministry uses lies to make you perceive a threat and justify the war. you have a chance to escape to, lets say, switzerland. do you do it, or do you do your duty?

"Jawohl, mein fuhrer."

:Q

- M4H

 

[Morph]

Following the example of my President, George "Dubya" Bush, I'd do whatever I could to weasel out of it.

 

[Soybomb]

I don't fully get the "well I don't believe in the cause but sure I'd go" mentality. I couldn't kill someone for something I didn't believe in just because someone told me to. The government is run by people and can be wrong. Just following orders isn't a responsible behavior for anyone in my opinions. In fact if a draft came up that would probably be a good sign that things had went horribly wrong and we needed to consider pulling out and not sending in untrained people.

 

[Dragnov]

No, I'm not proving your point. Its not only you, but i have seen members on this site have this one way or the other way attitude, just black or white. Yes, you don't always have to be confined to laws, but its relative, it depends. For example, what I really said, as above:

"when it comes to very important decisions such as the possibility of killing innocents (or being killed) and so forth"

threatening to kick some guys as5 because he makes a comment on the net that he wont' want to fight is not really justified.

not sure if one wants to kill or be killed and acting in accordance with that persons belief system is justified (if the person is a rational thinker)

Again. You say "it's relative."

Well if it's relative, who are you to say what are "important decisions"? Who are you to say a person can't kick another guys @ss? It's again... relative to the individual.

And no. I don't see things in black and white. I can see why a liberal or conservative think they way they do. I can see legitimate reasons as why or why not to go to war. It's not all one way or another.

But there is a difference between being a functioning member of society and law abiding citizen, and being a hippie sh1t (and no, not all liberals are h1ppie sh1t just as not all conservatives are bible thumping white people... althought they both exist).

Government is here for your representation. I sure as hell don't agree how certain things are going and I'm not fond of certain laws, but I'm not out there being disruptive ignoring it, thinking I am above the law (i.e. violent anti-war protestors). Heck, it would probably become even worse in those people's eyes since it loses their opinion and thoughts. Once people start thinking like that, government fails altogether and we have chaos.

That is anarchy, and that is when people start killing each other thinking they are justified being on the "moral highround". That is again, what makes people fly planes full of innocent people into tall buildings.


This is still a democratic republic as far as I can tell. Your vote counts and the peoples choices are made. This is not Nazi Germany. For draft dogers, you have the option of leaving NOW or doing something about it LEGALLY. Running away isn't going to solve anything.

 

[dugweb]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: RettaGuy
me....

Draftdodging little nef. You'd stay at home to pad your 79.33 posts per day? ( ) Edit - He's going for 80, folks. Edit2 - He hit 80.
I'd come back and kick your ass once I returned from my TOD.

- M4H

holy crap, thats a lot of PPD lol, take two giant steps away from the computer rettaguy...

btw, i would go in a heart beat, i contemplated joining the army 3 months ago, but i decided i was gonna go to atlanta for 2 years instead

 

[LeStEr]

Originally posted by: Aceshigh
I'd do my duty.

 

[rgwalt]

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

He blatantly threatened physical harm to a guy because of the guys decision. Do you honestly not see anything wrong with this? I think you're pretty screwed up if you don't personally.

Hey, in your world he can do so if he wishes. After all, he is not confined to laws. He can have his own laws. He may think he is at a higher moral level. This is how you think isnt it? After all, it's all relative remember.


You're proving my point with your statement above. Law is necessary and should be followed for a functioning, civil society, despite everything being relative. It is a concession we must make if you expect to have some kind of order in this world.

No, I'm not proving your point. Its not only you, but i have seen members on this site have this one way or the other way attitude, just black or white. Yes, you don't always have to be confined to laws, but its relative, it depends. For example, what I really said, as above:

"when it comes to very important decisions such as the possibility of killing innocents (or being killed) and so forth"

threatening to kick some guys as5 because he makes a comment on the net that he wont' want to fight is not really justified.

not sure if one wants to kill or be killed and acting in accordance with that persons belief system is justified (if the person is a rational thinker)

Wow, what an impressive manipulation of morality. Here is the deal. If you don't believe in absolute morality, then Merc's statements are no worse or better than your's. You cannot condemn him. If you do, you claim there is a moral compass, which would mean that you cannot be the authority on morals, something else is.

Also, you have no "right" to dodge the draft. If you did, you are committing a crime in the eyes of the US. You can either go to jail, or move to another country. You can try to justify it morally, but remember there are men out there putting their lives on the line for your freedom.

Ryan

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: rgwalt

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

He blatantly threatened physical harm to a guy because of the guys decision. Do you honestly not see anything wrong with this? I think you're pretty screwed up if you don't personally.

Hey, in your world he can do so if he wishes. After all, he is not confined to laws. He can have his own laws. He may think he is at a higher moral level. This is how you think isnt it? After all, it's all relative remember.


You're proving my point with your statement above. Law is necessary and should be followed for a functioning, civil society, despite everything being relative. It is a concession we must make if you expect to have some kind of order in this world.

No, I'm not proving your point. Its not only you, but i have seen members on this site have this one way or the other way attitude, just black or white. Yes, you don't always have to be confined to laws, but its relative, it depends. For example, what I really said, as above:

"when it comes to very important decisions such as the possibility of killing innocents (or being killed) and so forth"

threatening to kick some guys as5 because he makes a comment on the net that he wont' want to fight is not really justified.

not sure if one wants to kill or be killed and acting in accordance with that persons belief system is justified (if the person is a rational thinker)

Wow, what an impressive manipulation of morality. Here is the deal. If you don't believe in absolute morality, then Merc's statements are no worse or better than your's. You cannot condemn him. If you do, you claim there is a moral compass, which would mean that you cannot be the authority on morals, something else is.

Also, you have no "right" to dodge the draft. If you did, you are committing a crime in the eyes of the US. You can either go to jail, or move to another country. You can try to justify it morally, but remember there are men out there putting their lives on the line for your freedom.

Ryan

I'm talking about what I believe is right and wrong without imposing my views on others, or without threatening physical attacks as a consequence for one's decision. I'm risking my life, hence I should decide if i should risk it or not, i cannot force one to risk their life, nor can i admonish them for not.

I have no 'legal' right to dodge the draft, this may be true, but again, when it comes to an extreme decision such as this, I will do what I feel is right. I may be committing a crime, in which case I will move to another country. As far as men putting their lives on the line for my freedom, that is debateable. Are they putting their lives on the line? Definitely. They are brave men and women and are great people, but the problem is they aren't the ones deciding if they are 'fighting for my freedom,' our politicians are. We had no evidence of links between terrorists and Sadaam Hussein. In fact, S. Hussein has been more of a communist type rather than a theocratic dictator. He wasn't very religious, recently, yes he's playing the religious card to get support, but other than that he doesn't have a lot in common with ppl like OBL. there is also no evidence that iraq would have striked us first...

 

[teqwiz]

I'd go for sure

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: LeStEr

Originally posted by: Aceshigh
I'd do my duty.

 

[lowtech1]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

its his choice, sobeit.

you're not one to judge.

He's free to the judge if he wishes.

And regardless, society/law has made judgement (as it should) and AFAIK it is illegal to be a draft dodger.

It is also illigal to kill/murder.