If you're not a muslim, you deserve to be punished...

[buck]

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

[/quote]

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: paulxcook
P&N?

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: WingZero94

Originally posted by: isekii
We should do exactly the opposite.

Kill and rape innocent Muslims including their wives and daughters.

That'll teach them

Hopefully you were kidding, however not the thing to kid about.

I think your sarcasm meter needs adjustment.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Citrix
England needs to throw his ass out.

We can't - Biritish citizen. However:

Choudary, along with Omar Bakri Muhammad, led Al-Muhajiroun, an organisation now banned under anti-terrorist legislation which operated in the United Kingdom until its dissolution in 2004. He now speaks for Bakri, who was banned from Britain on 12 August 2005 by Home Secretary Charles Clarke on the grounds that his presence in Britain was "not conducive to the public good."[10][11] Choudary is also a spokesman for Al Ghurabaa, an organisation banned for the glorification of terrorism in the United Kingdom.[12]

 

[RESmonkey]

Originally posted by: effowe
Now you've done it..

All religion is retarded.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

[/quote]

I read it.

It talks about fighting people who fight you.
If they are not fighting you do not fight them.

Nice violence in Islam

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

I read it.

It talks about fighting people who fight you.
If they are not fighting you do not fight them.

Nice violence in Islam

[/quote]

 

[Aimster]

Replace Allah with God ..
Maybe it'll help those who also think Allah is a Muslim God.

My translation has the world GOD rather than Allah. That is the whole point of Arab-English translation. Why keep the word Allah (Arabic) when everything else is English?
Makes no sense

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

I read it.

It talks about fighting people who fight you.
If they are not fighting you do not fight them.

Nice violence in Islam

[/quote]

Read the entire thing. You skipped parts here and there.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

I agree with you, I am not implying that any of what I posted suggests that a Muslim should go blow the shit out of a public market. He said:"and I have yet to see where the Quran calls for violence. " I posted the first link I can find, there are more out there as well.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

I read it.

It talks about fighting people who fight you.
If they are not fighting you do not fight them.

Nice violence in Islam

Read the entire thing. You skipped parts here and there.

What the fuck is your point?

*I'm done talking to you, you are confused and talking to you is like talking to a brick. No pun intended.*

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

Where in Buddha or Jesus's teachings does it say to fight oppression and persecution?

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

I agree with you, I am not implying that any of what I posted suggests that a Muslim should go blow the shit out of a public market. He said:"and I have yet to see where the Quran calls for violence. " I posted the first link I can find, there are more out there as well.

True. In that regard it's always the question that trips people up when the "direction" of the question is lost somewhere in the inter-tubes.

Perhaps the question should have been: "Where does the text in Quran call for being the aggressor?" Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. Yet, in either case the interpretation and "meaning" is going to depend on the person who reads it/ teaches it. It's all subjective.

*shrug*

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Aimster
WTF is that?

I asked for a quote from the Quran. You going to give me one from the Quran or some random crap that I have no idea wtf it is.

If Islam said you are to be dead, you would be dead.

I read it.

It talks about fighting people who fight you.
If they are not fighting you do not fight them.

Nice violence in Islam

Read the entire thing. You skipped parts here and there.

What the fuck is your point?

*I'm done talking to you, you are confused and talking to you is like talking to a brick. No pun intended.*

I was not talking about that kind of violence. Violence to protect oneself is clearly not what I was talking about. Yet you bring it up anyways.

 

[Chaotic42]

This one caught my eye:

-
9:123. O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allâh is with those who are the Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2).
-

I may just be sleepy, but I can't find any context that this is in that would make me think that this isn't a direct order.

Source of the quote

 

[Aimster]

Why does your translation have Allah whereas everything else is in English?
You know you are getting a good translation when the word Allah is translated into English, God.

Just my .02.

 

[Casawi]

Whatever that dude is talking about is not what I was thought in school, or ever read anywhere in a Quran?

What I know is murder is not forgiven. If I kill someone... no matter how good of a Muslim I am. I will be punished for it.
Now how do they justify that is not a murder??? kill innocent == murder;
The only way I know killing is forgiven is you're fighting for your country or religion. Now the fighting for religion is where people slip ... fighting for your religion does not mean anyone that is not Muslim is guilty and kill'em ...lol
I think the other Iway could get away with killing is if someone kills an innocent member of my family... I might get a break here... not sure on this one tho.

Like my dad always says... those people (imam whatever from OP) don't deserve this great religion.

 

[Molondo]

GO GO FOX NEWS.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Why does your translation have Allah whereas everything else is in English?
You know you are getting a good translation when the word Allah is translated into English, God.

Just my .02.

It's just the first one I found. I was taking Arabic a couple of years back, but work got in the way. It's interesting to see how many quotes from the Quran are taken out of context. I guess it's like everything else, people see what they want to see.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

Where in Buddha or Jesus's teachings does it say to fight oppression and persecution?

I thought the whole story of the exodus was basically about resisting Egyptian oppression and persecution.

As far as Jesus goes: A quick search brings up Luke 19:27:

"19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
source
text

...there's certainly violence mentioned in the bible and to what levels of craziness it is interpreted will depend on the person. Some Christian nutjob could just as easily take that passage to extremes and try to kill every non-believer he comes across. Indeed there's bound to be cases where it's happened.

Buddhism is somewhat different since it's less centralized around a particular text....I've always considered it more of a philosophy than a religion anyway.

 

[Kadarin]

:religionofpeace;

 

[maziwanka]

i love it when religion replaces common fucking sense.

the greatest and most delicious trick of all

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Molondo
GO GO FOX NEWS.

fox news didnt do the story they just reprinted a BBC story/interview.

 

[maziwanka]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Why does your translation have Allah whereas everything else is in English?
You know you are getting a good translation when the word Allah is translated into English, God.

Just my .02.

man you are an asshat