If you're not a muslim, you deserve to be punished...

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: buck
2 second search brings up:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
PICKTHAL: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
SHAKIR: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

If you need specifics get off your lazy ass and search google.

And right before that:

002.190
YUSUFALI: Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
SHAKIR: And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

and right after:
002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

-=-=-=-=-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html

The way I read it, those passages are about fighting against oppression and persecution, while not being the aggressor and observing mercy.

I've always felt that all the same basic stuff can be found between most different religions. In this case, the call to mortally oppose those who would eliminate you. Of course, it's the lunatics of any faith who perceive particular histories and current events to extremes and declare holy wars.

Where in Buddha or Jesus's teachings does it say to fight oppression and persecution?

I thought the whole story of the exodus was basically about resisting Egyptian oppression and persecution.

As far as Jesus goes: A quick search brings up Luke 19:27:

"19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
source
text

...there's certainly violence mentioned in the bible and to what levels of craziness it is interpreted will depend on the person. Some Christian nutjob could just as easily take that passage to extremes and try to kill every non-believer he comes across. Indeed there's bound to be cases where it's happened.

Buddhism is somewhat different since it's less centralized around a particular text....I've always considered it more of a philosophy than a religion anyway.

That verse and the way you used it is totally out of context. He is telling a story about a bad servant.... has nothing to do with what Christians are supposed to go out and do. It also is about the end times, the "reaping."

Islam and Christianity are very different.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: maziwanka

Originally posted by: Aimster
Why does your translation have Allah whereas everything else is in English?
You know you are getting a good translation when the word Allah is translated into English, God.

Just my .02.

man you are an asshat

Allah means God.
If they are going to translate it from Arabic to English they should change Allah to God.

By not doing so it fools people into making them think Allah means Muslim God. There is no Muslim God.

I dont see how that makes me an asshat

 

[OutHouse]

Mr Wiz is correct

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
I thought the whole story of the exodus was basically about resisting Egyptian oppression and persecution.

As far as Jesus goes: A quick search brings up Luke 19:27:

"19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
source
text

...there's certainly violence mentioned in the bible and to what levels of craziness it is interpreted will depend on the person. Some Christian nutjob could just as easily take that passage to extremes and try to kill every non-believer he comes across. Indeed there's bound to be cases where it's happened.

Buddhism is somewhat different since it's less centralized around a particular text....I've always considered it more of a philosophy than a religion anyway.

That verse and the way you used it is totally out of context. He is telling a story about a bad servant.... has nothing to do with what Christians are supposed to go out and do. It also is about the end times, the "reaping."

Islam and Christianity are very different.

Yes, I know. That's the point.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Allah means God.
If they are going to translate it from Arabic to English they should change Allah to God.

By not doing so it fools people into making them think Allah means Muslim God. There is no Muslim God.

I dont see how that makes me an asshat

So what about my point that this appears to be a direct order from God to kill disbelievers? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but don't dance around it.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
I thought the whole story of the exodus was basically about resisting Egyptian oppression and persecution.

As far as Jesus goes: A quick search brings up Luke 19:27:

"19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
source
text

...there's certainly violence mentioned in the bible and to what levels of craziness it is interpreted will depend on the person. Some Christian nutjob could just as easily take that passage to extremes and try to kill every non-believer he comes across. Indeed there's bound to be cases where it's happened.

Buddhism is somewhat different since it's less centralized around a particular text....I've always considered it more of a philosophy than a religion anyway.

That verse and the way you used it is totally out of context. He is telling a story about a bad servant.... has nothing to do with what Christians are supposed to go out and do. It also is about the end times, the "reaping."

Islam and Christianity are very different.

Yes, I know. That's the point.

Ok, I thought so because of your whole Some Christian nutjob could just as easily take that passage to extremes and try to kill every non-believer he comes across. But I was just making sure. I have found while reading through the Quaran that even while reading in context it's message in the end is we have 2 choices convert and become second rate citizens or die. Not much of a choice to me at least, and then again it's not guarantied you will make it to paradise even if you do convert...yay.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Aimster
Allah means God.
If they are going to translate it from Arabic to English they should change Allah to God.

By not doing so it fools people into making them think Allah means Muslim God. There is no Muslim God.

I dont see how that makes me an asshat

So what about my point that this appears to be a direct order from God to kill disbelievers? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but don't dance around it.

Muslim God and Christian God are different beings Muslims don't believe in the trinity which the Christian religion is centered around.

 

[Aimster]

nothing....
I am just talking to the thread in general and responding to that guy.

There are 10,000 websites with translations. The best ones usually have Allah written as God.
That makes sense.

This is just a big game of google search versus google search. Everything is going to be taken out of context. Even if you read the Quran in English how can you remember all that? It's one big "headache" to read unless you are really into it. I hate poetry and that is exactly what the Quran is. You have to keep reading poetry over and over again to get the true meaning. I doubt anyone on this site has reread the Quran over and over and over again.

Everyone just opens up a new tab or a browser, searches something on Google and pastes it. Some from pro-Islam websites and some from anti-Islam websites.
Just go by the statistics. Most Muslims are not out to kill nonbelievers. That's good enough for me. Should be good enough for everyone else.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Aimster
Allah means God.
If they are going to translate it from Arabic to English they should change Allah to God.

By not doing so it fools people into making them think Allah means Muslim God. There is no Muslim God.

I dont see how that makes me an asshat

So what about my point that this appears to be a direct order from God to kill disbelievers? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but don't dance around it.

Muslim God and Christian God are different beings Muslims don't believe in the trinity which the Christian religion is centered around.

If you believe in God and you are not a Muslim .. a Muslim will tell you you are believing in the same God.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

I have found while reading through the Quaran that even while reading in context it's message in the end is we have 2 choices convert and become second rate citizens or die.

Could you quote me the passage where the Koran states this? Since you've read it you should have no trouble finding and pasting the verse for me.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: lokiju
And this is yet another reason why I don't care for religion.

There's nothing inherently wrong with religion. Religion is fine. The only problem with religion is the people who follow it.

Come to think of it. . .people are pretty much the problem with pretty much everything.

hehe, pretty much.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Aimster
Allah means God.
If they are going to translate it from Arabic to English they should change Allah to God.

By not doing so it fools people into making them think Allah means Muslim God. There is no Muslim God.

I dont see how that makes me an asshat

So what about my point that this appears to be a direct order from God to kill disbelievers? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but don't dance around it.

Muslim God and Christian God are different beings Muslims don't believe in the trinity which the Christian religion is centered around.

If you believe in God and you are not a Muslim .. a Muslim will tell you you are believing in the same God.

You are probably right. But just because they say it a certain way doesn't mean they are right. Just like what I post here doesn't mean I am right, each person needs to look at the facts and come to their own decision.

If someone does not want to look at the info presented and just live their life in bliss that that is their choice, you know.

 

[RichUK]

Youtube link from within the OP's link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...B2RFm4&feature=related

That disgusts me.

Get that shit out of my country. :|

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: RichUK
Youtube link from within the OP's link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...B2RFm4&feature=related

That disgusts me.

Get that shit out of my country. :|

It's just scarry to me.

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: RichUK
Youtube link from within the OP's link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...B2RFm4&feature=related

That disgusts me.

Get that shit out of my country. :|

OK look at the dudes beard... that should tell you something ...lol
Anyone that is not Muslim is not innocent ... WTF who is he to decide who innocent and who is not. Isn't that what god does in judgment day?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

I have found while reading through the Quaran that even while reading in context it's message in the end is we have 2 choices convert and become second rate citizens or die.

Could you quote me the passage where the Koran states this? Since you've read it you should have no trouble finding and pasting the verse for me.

As best as I know what he said was true of a specific situation that occurred way back when. However, it is not written as a guide of conduct or meant to be Universally applied. Sorta like the Old Testament story where a city's inhabitants make a deal with the Israelis wherein the inhabitants convert to Judaism and while the men of the city were recovering from being snipped(ouch) the Israelis entered the city and slaughtered them all. By any standard that's barbaric, but at the same time an isolated incident not meant as a blueprint for future actions.

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: RichUK
Youtube link from within the OP's link: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=...B2RFm4&feature=related

That disgusts me.

Get that shit out of my country. :|

It's just scarry to me.

I sounds to me that people like him say that shit to get exactly your reaction. It's like a war strategy. You will get your best answers by reading about Islam in a legit book. I promise you it is not as bad as America thinks, in fact it's a great religion that some people give it a bad image.

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
I agree!

Punish me, mistress!!!

:laugh:

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: Beev
Yeah sorry, I'm generally a VERY tolerant person and apathetic about everything, but the Muslim religion needs to be "done away with."

Really. It is the second largest religion in the world. Can you tell me how you'd like to do this.
Or maybe before you venture out into committing mass genocide based on an anti-Islam website, maybe you need to read the Quran to see who said what and what is actually true.
The sources cited are fanatics. Every religion has them but lately its only Muslim fanatics that get the attention.

I think Islam recently became the largest religion in the world. It was in the paper the other day.
19.2% versus 16.8% *something like that*

That statistic was regarding Roman Catholics and Muslims. Christianity as a whole makes up about 33% of the world population.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

vishnu pwnz all others!!!!1!11!1!!

 

[cubeless]

i have to believe that, at the end of the day, it's just ambitious malcontents and miscreants using a religion as cover to attain power, nothing new...

but what makes it scary is that the vocal minority are using the tools that supposedly make us 'free' to sufficiently further their cause that the masses of 'nice' muslims (being no different than any other flock of sheep) will go along to get along (and not get killed by their benevolent mullahs)... this is proven in history over and over again...

and do u really believe that any christian leader in the world could get a crowd of multiple thousand people together to hold signs like that and parade around? these guys are more dangerous than many people seem to think... a large population of disaffected folks can be very rapidly sucked into a fervor by a chrismatic figure and unleashed to right the wrongs, actual or percieved, that have been perpetrated against them...

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: Aimster
and I have yet to see where the Quran calls for violence.

Don't be stupid.

 

[Alistar7]

Wake me up when 99% of the worlds population is educated enough to finally put down their various god crutches.....

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: Aimster
and I have yet to see where the Quran calls for violence.

Don't be stupid.

Take your own advice

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
Wake me up when 99% of the worlds population is educated enough to finally put down their various god crutches.....

lol, there are plenty of well educated people who are religious. some much better educated than the supposed enlightened people who are too smart for religion.