IG: Some Emails on Clinton's Server Were Beyond Top Secret

[Fern]

I'm not familiar with rules/laws regarding the handling/responsibilities involved with classified info.

But the defense that Hillary didn't knowingly or willingly have classified info on her server seems preposterous:

1. I understand she had/used only ONE server: her private one. I.e., she had no State Dept. provided/approved server for classified info.

2. It seems to me obvious that a SOS is going to deal with quite a bit of classified info.

So, she knew she was going to be receiving classified info, that it was an essential/integral part of her job as SOS, yet she never made accommodations for the classified info and set up only her personal server. I.e., she knew her private server would be handling classified info.

I.e., her conduct meets the definition of "knowingly and willingly". I think it would be a different matter if she had a State Dept server (or whatever the term is) and used it as part of her daily activities as SOS. She could at least plausibly claim she chose the wrong server because she didn't know the info was classified.

However, with no State Dept server at all we must (unrealistically) believe she was unaware that she would, by necessity, be dealing with classified info. (Did she made other provisions for handling classified info that have not been reported?)

That she has not been able to explain why she declined a govt server and set up her own private one to handle all communications is curious, or even damning.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified.

Too easy. Needs more ... something... more Conspiracy!... More Benghazi!

 

[Bowfinger]

I'm not familiar with rules/laws regarding the handling/responsibilities involved with classified info.

But the defense that Hillary didn't knowingly or willingly have classified info on her server seems preposterous:

1. I understand she had/used only ONE server: her private one. I.e., she had no State Dept. provided/approved server for classified info.

2. It seems to me obvious that a SOS is going to deal with quite a bit of classified info.

So, she knew she was going to be receiving classified info, that it was an essential/integral part of her job as SOS, yet she never made accommodations for the classified info and set up only her personal server. I.e., she knew her private server would be handling classified info.

I.e., her conduct meets the definition of "knowingly and willingly". I think it would be a different matter if she had a State Dept server (or whatever the term is) and used it as part of her daily activities as SOS. She could at least plausibly claim she chose the wrong server because she didn't know the info was classified.

However, with no State Dept server at all we must (unrealistically) believe she was unaware that she would, by necessity, be dealing with classified info. (Did she made other provisions for handling classified info that have not been reported?)

That she has not been able to explain why she declined a govt server and set up her own private one to handle all communications is curious, or even damning.

Fern

Since you couldn't bother to read even the last message in the thread before you waded in:

"You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified."
​

Clinton had access to those secure channels. One need only consider last week's "Breaking!!!! Scandal!!!!" about a secure fax being broken to confirm this.

Again, email is NOT an acceptable medium for classified materials.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not familiar with rules/laws regarding the handling/responsibilities involved with classified info.

But the defense that Hillary didn't knowingly or willingly have classified info on her server seems preposterous:

1. I understand she had/used only ONE server: her private one. I.e., she had no State Dept. provided/approved server for classified info.

2. It seems to me obvious that a SOS is going to deal with quite a bit of classified info.

So, she knew she was going to be receiving classified info, that it was an essential/integral part of her job as SOS, yet she never made accommodations for the classified info and set up only her personal server. I.e., she knew her private server would be handling classified info.

I.e., her conduct meets the definition of "knowingly and willingly". I think it would be a different matter if she had a State Dept server (or whatever the term is) and used it as part of her daily activities as SOS. She could at least plausibly claim she chose the wrong server because she didn't know the info was classified.

However, with no State Dept server at all we must (unrealistically) believe she was unaware that she would, by necessity, be dealing with classified info. (Did she made other provisions for handling classified info that have not been reported?)

That she has not been able to explain why she declined a govt server and set up her own private one to handle all communications is curious, or even damning.

Fern

Utterly inaccurate. She had no govt server for regular email. The notion that the office of the SoS has no secure connection to the State Dept secure network is absurd.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I just Love all you anti Hilliary peeps foaming at the mouth.......nothing is going to happen!!

But that is OK!! Keep on foaming.....

 

[ivwshane]

You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified.

Well someone has to be wrong. It's either you and your claim that classified info can only be sent to and from secured systems (as in not something connected to the Internet), or everyone else is right in that classified email to an inherently unsecured system (public government email systems, private email, as an example) is not only allowed but common enough that any government official should be well aware that things sent to them could be classified and it's up to them to secure the info and report the offender and have the system securely wiped!

One answer makes sense to me the other seems to fit with a desired outcome.

Who could be right?

 

[ivwshane]

Since you couldn't bother to read even the last message in the thread before you waded in:

"You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified."
​

Clinton had access to those secure channels. One need only consider last week's "Breaking!!!! Scandal!!!!" about a secure fax being broken to confirm this.

Again, email is NOT an acceptable medium for classified materials.

Uh oh!

Conflict error! Facts and spin conflict! Spun fact conflicts with new spin!
Conflict error!

 

[werepossum]

You know how many work related emails I recieve on my personal email address? None. It's easy to do since I give out and use my work email for work related things. Sadly the dems are handing this election over.

Nah. Hillary is a well known commodity, and for anyone even possibly considering voting for her this isn't even going to be a blip.

I will vote for Hillary if she is in the general. I still think it is BS that anyone is conducting government business on a private e-mail server. But, I've sign my name on the document saying I will handle data properly or face jail time or worse.

This thread shows who the real left wing political hacks on this forum are (many many other threads show the right wing political hacks).

Going through every e-mail and trying to prove she really really messed up, instead of she just really messed, doesn't do much for me. We need to enforce the laws going forward, and make sure no one is doing government business on personal equipment. Considering this practice appears to have been widespread, Hillary should probably get a pass her (at least legally), but the next guy/gal should be nailed to the wall for it.

lol That's certainly an, um, nuanced opinion. She did nothing wrong, and anyone else who does it needs to be "nailed to the wall for it."

Eski, we'll just have to say we're at an impasse. I believe that in her role as Secretary of State she most certainly had expectation that classified information would pass through her email account and therefore meets the criteria for knowingly and wittingly. I'm not a lawyer and won't pretend to be. I'm sure she has a team of lawyers dreaming up ways to dispute what the words "expressed or implied" mean and regardless of what's found she'll face no repercussions because she is going to be the next President of the United States and no one is going to stand in the way of that.

There was a president once who deleted 18 1/2 minutes of audio recordings and was forced to resign over it. Now you can conduct State business outside of formal channels with the direct appearance of attempting to avoid oversight and public scrutiny, attempt to scrub all record of it, get called on it, submit what you deem relevant and then run for office and have millions of people back you. It's a sad sad state of affairs but I can't really say there's any better choices being presented to us either so, whatever.

Agreed.

 

[Fern]

Since you couldn't bother to read even the last message in the thread before you waded in:

"You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified."
​

Clinton had access to those secure channels. One need only consider last week's "Breaking!!!! Scandal!!!!" about a secure fax being broken to confirm this.

Again, email is NOT an acceptable medium for classified materials.

Yeah, I read it.

I'm not a tech/IT guy. I think getting all pissy about tech terms is a diversion.

To me "email" means electronic mail and not necessarily internet. I've used a non-internet type system back in the day before what is now known as email existed.

And you still haven't addressed the question I raised: What means did she have available to properly handle classified info? All I've seen was that she claimed she had aides print out the classified info on hard copy and give to her. I.e., she didn't have the secured State dept "thingy" her aides and others had. (I'm using the technically superior term "thingy" for your benefit).

Fern

 

[Hugo Drax]

If this was a regular employee who did this would they get treated the same or would they be in big trouble?

 

[ivwshane]

If this was a regular employee who did this would they get treated the same or would they be in big trouble?

Did what? Did the things you and other retarded righties are claiming? Or something that, as of yet, hasn't come to light?

 

[Zorba]

So lame. It's not like any SoS can communicate with people in foreign govts exclusively on secured networks. We can't let them into ours nor can they let us into theirs. Such communication would only *become* classified after the fact, not *be* classified in the first place.

It's all a great catch22. If the SoS & a foreign counterpart talked about places to eat, why, that's classified, right? And we'll never know it was that innocuous because.... it's classified, but back biters can point to it as a security breach because it's classified, of course.

See how that works?

This goes back to a point I made in a previous thread, which you didn't agree with. I can safely assume that the SoS has a lot of sensitive communication that is not classified, but still shouldn't be floating around on a private computer. Basically all of my work correspondence would be ITAR, so even though it isn't classified I could still get slammed if it was all on my private server somewhere, as an example.

 

[Zorba]

or everyone else is right in that classified email to an inherently unsecured system (public government email systems, private email, as an example) is not only allowed but common enough that any government official should be well aware that things sent to them could be classified and it's up to them to secure the info and report the offender and have the system securely wiped!

It is a basic part of any security briefing (which must go through every year) to report escaped data immediately and let security handle it properly. If you are a contractor, the breach must also be reported to the government. Classified isn't just a marking on a page like a copyright that everyone ignores.

I know that you are a massive partisan, but do you really think that people with access to classified data don't know they are supposed to report leaked data?

 

[Zorba]

lol That's certainly an, um, nuanced opinion. She did nothing wrong, and anyone else who does it needs to be "nailed to the wall for it."

I didn't say she did nothing wrong, she definitely did. Even if she had just been the Secretary of Interior, she shouldn't have been running a private server.

The problem is, it wasn't just her. Apparently it was widespread. So you either need to go after everyone that has done it (fine by me), or make it clear it isn't allowed going forward and turn the cheek for everyone that has done it before.

Going after only Hilary makes it look like a partisan witch hunt instead of actually caring about data security.

 

[werepossum]

I didn't say she did nothing wrong, she definitely did. Even if she had just been the Secretary of Interior, she shouldn't have been running a private server.

The problem is, it wasn't just her. Apparently it was widespread. So you either need to go after everyone that has done it (fine by me), or make it clear it isn't allowed going forward and turn the cheek for everyone that has done it before.

Going after only Hilary makes it look like a partisan witch hunt instead of actually caring about data security.

Was this really widespread? All the Republican SecsState before had Gmail or similar accounts, but also had regular State government accounts. And of course, Gmail is a bit different from hosting one's own server and thus holding total control over what gets shared and what gets lost.

 

[Fern]

I didn't say she did nothing wrong, she definitely did. Even if she had just been the Secretary of Interior, she shouldn't have been running a private server.

The problem is, it wasn't just her. Apparently it was widespread. So you either need to go after everyone that has done it (fine by me), or make it clear it isn't allowed going forward and turn the cheek for everyone that has done it before.
-snip-

I've never heard of anybody else setting up their private server to handle their official govt duties. Can you provide some info this?

Fern

 

[ivwshane]

Was this really widespread? All the Republican SecsState before had Gmail or similar accounts, but also had regular State government accounts. And of course, Gmail is a bit different from hosting one's own server and thus holding total control over what gets shared and what gets lost.

You and others have made this claim before and is simply not true. A private email system is no more or less secure than a private personal email system. In terms of what Clinton was capable of, neither allowed her to do anything she wouldn't already be able to do on a public email system.

That is, unless, you think Hillary is some IT mastermind. Which I'm sure you loonies probably think she is.

 

[ivwshane]

I've never heard of anybody else setting up their private server to handle their official govt duties. Can you provide some info this?

Fern

No? You've never heard of governor jeb bush? No wonder his poll numbers are in the single digits!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7fae16-ca49-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

 

[soundforbjt]

No? You've never heard of governor jeb bush? No wonder his poll numbers are in the single digits!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7fae16-ca49-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

Or former Gov Romney as well.

 

[ivwshane]

It is a basic part of any security briefing (which must go through every year) to report escaped data immediately and let security handle it properly. If you are a contractor, the breach must also be reported to the government. Classified isn't just a marking on a page like a copyright that everyone ignores.

I know that you are a massive partisan, but do you really think that people with access to classified data don't know they are supposed to report leaked data?

And how does one know what is classified and what isn't?

Would an article in a newspaper be considered classified?

 

[senseamp]

Since you couldn't bother to read even the last message in the thread before you waded in:

"You are not allowed to send classified material through email. That's not just private email servers, but even the State Department's own email system. It is connected to the Internet and is not considered secure for classified materials. Internet email is inherently insecure. That's why we have entirely separate, internal-only networks for classified materials, use secure fax and secure phones, etc. If everyone follows policy, the Secretary of State will never receive any emails with classified material ... except when it is retroactively classified."
​

Clinton had access to those secure channels. One need only consider last week's "Breaking!!!! Scandal!!!!" about a secure fax being broken to confirm this.

Again, email is NOT an acceptable medium for classified materials.

Yep, even Former Russian Amb. McFaul tweeted that he communicated to Clinton exclusively through secure wires, not email. But this is not about facts, it's about what fits the Clinton hater world view. In that view, Hillary killed Vince Foster, for starters, and it's been downhill ever since.
In any case, FBI is looking into it, we'll see what they say. Of course, if they don't find anything, the right wingers will say it's because Obama told them not to.

 

[OutHouse]

Did what? Did the things you and other retarded righties are claiming? Or something that, as of yet, hasn't come to light?

The Office of the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community is a retarded rightie?

is there anything that hillary cant do that you lefty partisan hacks wont sweep under the rug?

 

[Fern]

No? You've never heard of governor jeb bush? No wonder his poll numbers are in the single digits!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...7fae16-ca49-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

We're speaking of federal govt for one thing, not the State of Florida. (I don't know and couldn't care less what Jeb did, that's up to the people of FL.)

For another your link doesn't have anything about Jeb setting up a private server.

WTF are you talking about? Do you even know?

Fern

 

[senseamp]

Was this really widespread? All the Republican SecsState before had Gmail or similar accounts, but also had regular State government accounts. And of course, Gmail is a bit different from hosting one's own server and thus holding total control over what gets shared and what gets lost.

Wait, what, you think it's better for secretaries of state to use Gmail?

 

[Jhhnn]

It is a basic part of any security briefing (which must go through every year) to report escaped data immediately and let security handle it properly. If you are a contractor, the breach must also be reported to the government. Classified isn't just a marking on a page like a copyright that everyone ignores.

I know that you are a massive partisan, but do you really think that people with access to classified data don't know they are supposed to report leaked data?

So, uhh, how does that apply to being forwarded an article from the NYT referencing classified information? Should every govt employee who reads the article report it to the security pinheads?

What we're really seeing is two different kinds of information. One is information from the wild that's deemed to be classified at a later date & the other is classified information that's escaped into the wild. Hillary's email has not been shown to have leaked classified information at all. Any information that came in came from the wild, from unsecured sources. When leaked, it was leaked from somewhere else & insisting on it still being classified requiring special handling is an absurdity considering that it has already escaped.