iG31, i945 or i946 chipset?

[Speedo]

Building a cheap system around the Core2 duo CPU, but dunno which chipset the mobo should be based on these days. Please help!

 

[hans007]

g31 isnt out yet , and is basically a 946 with 1333 bus.

i'd get the 945GC. thats probably the best one as it can support 4 dimms , unlike the g31 or the 946. that is of course if you dont care about 1333 bus suupport. if you dont care about 4 dimms wait for g31 (or get a cheap G33 on ebay, people sell their ECS g33 combo boards for like $60 there).




g31 = gma3100, 1333 bus, 2 dimms, ich7

946gz, gma3000, 1066 bus, 2 dimms ich7

945gc , gma950, 1066 bus 4 dimms, ich7

 

[renethx]

Get a motherboard based on either

945GC (A2 stepping) or G31

For example,

• ASRock ConRoe1333-D667 R1.0, $53, supports FSB 1333 processors
• GIGABYTE GA-945GCMX-S2, $57, overclocks well with E21xx, works fine with E6x50 at FSB~320MHz.
• GIGABYTE GA-G31MX-S2, $79, not cheap, but supports quad-core and 45 nm processors.
• ASUS P5KPL-VM, $77.5

 

[Speedo]

Thanks a lot for the information, guys!

Some new questions arise; u-ATX fits in an standard ATX case, right? Does all of these chipsets use dual channel, so I should have a pair of dimms for best performance?

Here are some of the most interesting alternatives from some Swedish shops (ordered byt cost):

Asus P5GC-MX/1333, I945GC(A2),Socket-775 ,LAN, m-ATX, DDR2, VGA, PCI-Ex16
Gigabyte GA-G31MX-S2, G31, Socket-775, m-ATX, GbLAN, DDR2, VGA, PCI-Ex16
Asus P5KPL, G31, Socket-775, DDR2, ATX, GbLAN, SATAII, PCI-Ex16

I'd like integrated graphics to keep the costs down. But on the other hand the P5KPL-VM has less PCI and DIMM slots since its u-ATX... hmm

 

[Speedo]

Okey, renethx and others, what do you think about this combo? :

Asus P5GC-MX/1333, I945GC(A2),Socket-775 ,LAN, m-ATX, DDR2, VGA, PCI-Ex16
Intel Pentium E2140 1.6GHz Socket LGA775, 1MB, BOXED m/fläkt
2x TwinMOS DDR2 PC6400 512MB CL5, 64M*8/8chip, 800MHz, 240pin

Will the mobo/memory combo work?

 

[renethx]

Looks OK. However ASUS withdrew P5GC-MX/1333 from its website a week ago. Is it available in Sweden? From the specs of P5GC-MX (non-1333 version), LAN is only 10/100Mbps and no overclocking options at all. If these do not matter for you, P5GC-MX is enough for E2140 and you don't need DDR2-800, DDR2-667/533 is enough.

 

[Speedo]

Just when I thought I got it right... yes, P5GC-MX/1333 is available in Sweden. I wonder why it was withdrewn? Well, having a bit of overclock posibilities would have been nice, since I heard these CPUs overclock well. I guess my hunt for mobo isn't over then...

 

[Speedo]

Okey... I can get the "Gigabyte GA-G31MX-S2, G31, Socket-775, m-ATX, GbLAN, DDR2, VGA, PCI-Ex16" pretty cheap as well. Know if it works for overclocking?

Also, what could I expect from the E2140 1.6GHz with 1MB cache?

 

[renethx]

GA-G31MX-S2 is pretty good for overclocking FSB 1333/1066 processors, but not good for FSB 800 processors because 1.66 and 2 are the only available memory multiplier for FSB 800 processors just like GA-G33M-DS2R. With multiplier 1.66, FSB is limited to around 240MHz to 270MHz with DDR2-800 memory modules (memory 800MHz = 240 x 1.66 x 2 to 900MHz = 270 x 1.66 x 2 and E2140 1.92GHz = 240MHz x 8 to 2.16GHz = 270MHz x 8).

It is not easy to find a budget mATX mb that overclocks well with E2140.

GIGABYTE GA-945GCMX-S2, max FSB ~290MHz, E2140 ~2.32GHz
ASUS P5L-MX, max FSB ~320MHz, E2140 ~2.56GHz

 

[Speedo]

So the problem with o/c lies in the limited memory multipliers the chipset provides? I thought that since the mobo support such hign FSBs, it would't be any problem raising the FSB, overclocking the CPU. Would it help if I got faster memory?

I dont need mATX, but the cheaper boards usually seem to be mATX, and integrated graphics help keeping costs down.

 

[renethx]

Yes, the problem is that the mininum multiplier is 1.66. If you buy DDR2-1066 memory modules, you should be raise FSB to 333MHz (memory 333 x 1.66 x 2 = 1111MHz) and E2140 runs at 2.66GHz.

If you buy E2180 (2.0GHz, x10 multiplier) and DDR2-800 memory, then max FSB = 240-270MHz (depending on your memory's oc ability), max CPU = 2.4-2.7GHz.

Which combination is cheaper?

 

[Speedo]

Hmm... okey, so which chipset would give me more options? P965?

You mention P5L-MX to overclock pretty well. That particular model isn't available here in Sweden, but "Asus P5L-VM 1394" is. Its cheap and even has 1394. Would it be among the best cheap/mATX mb's for overclocking?

Thanx for helping me out btw. I can't believe all the chipset options available today. It was easier on the BX-days

 

[renethx]

P5L-VM 1394 is totally different. Its max FSB with FSB 800 processors is 265MHz.

If you want to draw max OC from E2140, you'd better go with a P965, P35 or G33 ATX motherboard, such as GA-P965-(D)S3, GA-P35-(D)S3R/L, GA-G33-DS3R (E2140 ~2.9GHz with AUTO voltage).

 

[Speedo]

Oh... where do you get all this information from? I mean, Asus site doesn't show the overclocking potential of every mobo.

It sounds as if I'm going to build a cheap system as I originally intended, I have to skip everything about overclocking.

So if I want a stable, cheap and feature rich MB, could the P5L-VM 1394 be a good choice? I get GbLAN, Firewire and 4 DIMMS... sounds like a pretty good deal. That is, if it even supports the E2140 CPU??

If I can get 667MHz and 800MHz memory for the same price, I should get the faster eventhought the motherboard doesn't run it at full speed, right?

 

[renethx]

Hard|Forum - Small Form Factor Systems
FORUM HardWare.fr ? Monter un PC matx à base de C2D: petit mais costaud! (January 28, 2007)

are good places to know OC of mATX boards. P5L-VM 1394 is a good choice. If you are interested, you should consider BSEL mod that will enable you to oc E2140 past FSB 265MHz.

Yup, DDR2-800 is better.

 

[Speedo]

Thanks a lot...

Ok... so the multiplier is 8x for this CPU, and I should be able to go 265x8=2120MHz out of the box with the P5L-VM 1394 and E2140?

And if I understodd this right, I could use BSEL mod to go higher than 265FSB since it will change the memory multiplier ...

 

[Speedo]

renethx: Correct me if I'm wrong:
GA-G33-DS3R - quite expensive, no 1394, future proof, full ATX and could aim for ~2.9GHz.
GA-G31MX-S2 - quite cheap, no 1394, future proof, medium overclocker, ~2.16GHz at best.
Asus P5L-VM 1394 - cheap, many features, old chipset, bad overclocker, ~1.92GHz at best.

All of the mentioned mobos have integrated graphics.

I have a hard time deciding...

Btw, saw your thread: "Core 2 & AM2 Motherboards - Recommendations and Complete Lists" - Amazing! Must have taken an eternity to put together?

 

[renethx]

With P5L-VM 1394, E2140 should be able to run at 2.12GHz = FSB 265MHz x 8, and at a higher speed with BSEL mod. In many mATX mbs, there is a barrier at FSB 266MHz past which a FSB 800 processor cannot overclock (P5L-MX, GA-945GCMX-S2, abit F-I90HD are exceptions). BSEL mod enables the FSB 800 processor to run as a FSB 1066 (or even FSB 1333) processor and the barrier disappears.

 

[Speedo]

Cool... I have a "fogremover repair kit" which I used for some AMD mods some years ago, so I might take a shot at the BSEL mod.

 

[Speedo]

I have put together the system now, but I'm stuck at getting it to pass memtest86+ before installing windows. The BSEL mod worked perfectly, and I can run the FSB at 333FSB withouth problems. However, whatever FSB I set, I get an error in Memtest86+ after like 4 hours and 15 passes. I've tried to up the timings, alter the divider so the memory runs below spec, but in dual channel mode I can't get it to pass. Tonight I put the 2 OCZ 800MHz modules in single channel mode, and it ran all night without errors. There are no new bios for this mobo, -release is the latest... Seems I'm stuck at single channel?

 

[hans007]

ocz memory is not really the greatest. a lot of its ddr2-800 rated ones, are ddr2-667 pretested at some voltage. they may just be using OEM gray market chips and "pre testing"

so sometimes it doesnt work with every board. a lot of their stuff requirest non standard voltage to run at rated spee (i.e. more than 1.8v)

 

[Speedo]

Oh... I see at the OCZ homepage that this memory is specced to run at 2.1v. I guess this motherboard just feed it with 1.8v? BUT, shouldn't it work fine if I underclock it to 667MHz? I get errors even at this speed, when running in dual channel mode