IGN: ex rare member talks about cancelled games

[cmdrdredd]

Apparently they wanted to make another Conker's Bad Fur Day and Killer Instinct 3 but Microsoft said no and forced them to work on kids games and Kinect stuff. This really doesn't make me want to support Microsoft's Xbox system at all. As It is I only still own a 360 because of Halo. Anyhow, happy reading.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/22/ex-rare-member-shares-info-on-cancelled-game

 

[Anarchist420]

Well then no wonder the xbox360 has shitty 1st party games. They basically helped Sony out by restricting rare.

Thanks for read, it was a good find

 

[American Gunner]

Good job microsoft, let's not put out good 1st party games, let's spend time working on avatars and making sure kinect has the next jump in place and kick our arms and legs game out.

 

[exdeath]

Xbox and Halo was the start of the decline of console gaming.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Xbox and Halo was the start of the decline of console gaming.

Actually...I think Halo was quite good. It made fps games viable on consoles with free aim analog controls. It worked well. I dont think it was as good as it could have been but I like halo. I dont like Microsoft that much though and think halo could have been much more as a purely pc title.

 

[TechBoyJK]

KI3 would sell. There's no reason not to make it.

 

[cl-scott]

Xbox and Halo was the start of the decline of console gaming.

I don't know about Halo, but I would say that the Xbox was a definite turning point for the console market. There really wasn't, and still isn't for the most part, room for three companies in the console market. Sega was squeezed out by Sony and Nintendo, and then Microsoft jumped in and suddenly Sony and Microsoft are trying to make really high end consoles with the ability to have really nice looking graphics... Problem is that it seems like game developers blow about 75% of the budget on the graphics, and then the actual game is treated like an afterthought if that. Plots suck, gameplay sucks, graphics are really pretty, but I thought I bought a game not a movie.

And isn't it kind of well known that Microsoft as a game developer is really only interested in established franchises? They don't want to take a risk on creating a new game, so you just get a bunch of Halo and Fable titles. Even Fable has slowly devolved from an Action RPG to basically an action game with a smattering of RPG elements.

 

[Skel]

Anyone have a link to the sales numbers for KI 2, or Conker's Bad Fur Day? It's hard for me to read this as anything more than a disgruntled ex-worker who's bitching about his boss expecting him to work on projects they've deemed profitable rather than the one he wants to. I also call this my day to day work.. I have to do the work my bosses expect of me, not the fun stuff I'd rather be doing.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Anyone have a link to the sales numbers for KI 2, or Conker's Bad Fur Day? It's hard for me to read this as anything more than a disgruntled ex-worker who's bitching about his boss expecting him to work on projects they've deemed profitable rather than the one he wants to. I also call this my day to day work.. I have to do the work my bosses expect of me, not the fun stuff I'd rather be doing.

Thing is, when they were with Nintendo they would have freedom to explore projects like Conker's.

According to VGCharts which is the only info I can find, Conker's bad fur day sold less than 1 million copies. Around 770k worldwide. Although if you remember N64 was not as popular as the PSX and at the time the PS2 was being shown off and a lot of people were ready to jump ship.

Killer Instinct Gold for N64 sold about 820k units worldwide, again according to VGCharts which is all I can find.

I know people don't like VGCharts but I cannot find any other sales figures anywhere.

Rare also did Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 which sold millions in north america alone and since Microsoft acquired them have produced pretty much nothing of value. Kameo sold 300k worldwide, Viva Pinata sold 1.5Million worldwise with almost 1million of those sales coming from the EU market, Conker: Live and Reloaded for original Xbox sold less than the original N64 title, Perfect Dark Zero sold less than 750k units worldwide, Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts for 360 sold 710k worldwide.

So you see, with Nintendo they made original content that sold millions and since Microsoft got hold of them they can't sell anything.

 

[Bobisuruncle54]

I don't know about Halo, but I would say that the Xbox was a definite turning point for the console market. There really wasn't, and still isn't for the most part, room for three companies in the console market. Sega was squeezed out by Sony and Nintendo, and then Microsoft jumped in and suddenly Sony and Microsoft are trying to make really high end consoles with the ability to have really nice looking graphics... Problem is that it seems like game developers blow about 75% of the budget on the graphics, and then the actual game is treated like an afterthought if that. Plots suck, gameplay sucks, graphics are really pretty, but I thought I bought a game not a movie.

And isn't it kind of well known that Microsoft as a game developer is really only interested in established franchises? They don't want to take a risk on creating a new game, so you just get a bunch of Halo and Fable titles. Even Fable has slowly devolved from an Action RPG to basically an action game with a smattering of RPG elements.

It's not about "blowing 75% of the budget on graphics", that's hipster rubbish. It's about big business needing a return on its investment, which means risk aversion, and therefore a lack of creativity. COD sells not because it is the most graphically impressive game out (Crysis cost $20m to make, MW2 cost $60m), but because it is sticking to a formula that appeals to the most potential consumers.

 

[cl-scott]

It's not about "blowing 75% of the budget on graphics", that's hipster rubbish. It's about big business needing a return on its investment, which means risk aversion, and therefore a lack of creativity. COD sells not because it is the most graphically impressive game out (Crysis cost $20m to make, MW2 cost $60m), but because it is sticking to a formula that appeals to the most potential consumers.

Fair enough, it was a little simplistic an analysis, but the emphasis on ever more realistic graphics is driving up the cost of game development, and there seems to be an ever growing number of titles that seem to eschew gameplay. You will get some top tier titles that combine graphics and gameplay, but then you get a bunch of games which get panned in reviews because the graphics are "last generation" or something along those lines.

I won't deny that there is an increasing reliance on winning formulas, but that's more of a symptom of the disease rather than a cause.

 

[Aikouka]

A few weeks ago, I was lying in bed, and started wondering, "what happened to Rare?" I own Kameo and Viva Piñata, but I don't recall anything from them after that. I looked them up on Wikipedia, and sighed a bit when I saw that they had been relegated to lame Kinect games.

Someone needs to issue a C-c-combo Breaker on their stream of bland games, and get me Killer Instinct 3!

Xbox and Halo was the start of the decline of console gaming.

Do you ever tire of seeing everything with that nice shade of pink?

If you can't see how the original XBOX helped to popularize online and LAN-based gameplay, then you're just being purposefully obtuse. Regardless of how much I prefer playing in a room with someone versus online, it doesn't forgo the fact that sometimes that isn't possible. Also, how is Halo much different than Goldeneye was on the N64? They both helped popularize FPS gaming on a console.

 

[Phynaz]

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

You can't be serious. Did you read the article?

The guy was so blatantly honest about the situation. Microsoft closed them off from creative freedom and games that would have been great were denied even a look. He left freely, he wasn't fired or let go. He was one of the many who have voluntarily left Rare in the past couple of years due to Microsoft's incompetence.

 

[Skel]

Thing is, when they were with Nintendo they would have freedom to explore projects like Conker's.

According to VGCharts which is the only info I can find, Conker's bad fur day sold less than 1 million copies. Around 770k worldwide. Although if you remember N64 was not as popular as the PSX and at the time the PS2 was being shown off and a lot of people were ready to jump ship.

Killer Instinct Gold for N64 sold about 820k units worldwide, again according to VGCharts which is all I can find.

I know people don't like VGCharts but I cannot find any other sales figures anywhere.

Rare also did Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 which sold millions in north america alone and since Microsoft acquired them have produced pretty much nothing of value. Kameo sold 300k worldwide, Viva Pinata sold 1.5Million worldwise with almost 1million of those sales coming from the EU market, Conker: Live and Reloaded for original Xbox sold less than the original N64 title, Perfect Dark Zero sold less than 750k units worldwide, Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts for 360 sold 710k worldwide.

So you see, with Nintendo they made original content that sold millions and since Microsoft got hold of them they can't sell anything.

I find it very interesting that you say they haven’t done anything of value, tt looks like, from the VGcharts that Rare went on to develop Kinect Sports which both seasons sold over 1 million units. Granted the second one didn’t sell as well as the first, but that could be caused by the first one was a Kinect launch title. I find it interesting that most of Rare’s catalog from its heyday was Nintendo IPs. That’s even more amusing is when the complaint is they’re not allowed to create original stuff. It sounds like they are creating original stuff as KS sure seems original enough, I had never seen something like it before. Even from the article itself it sounds like they were asked to create something new, it just didn’t work out for whatever reason. Creating games is expensive and the sad reality is it has to be profitable.
I don’t know what the magic number for a game to be profitable for Rare would be, but when you look at games like Mortal Kombat Vs DC universe and Street Fighter 4 selling barely a million units, it’s not too surprising that MS would be leery about producing a fighting game. I doubt that even under Nintendo they’d have the freedom to do whatever they wanted.
By the by, Conker sold less due to it being a remake, even Halo’s remake sold considerably less than it’s original. Perfect Dark Zero was just a crappy game.

 

[Veliko]

I don't know about Halo, but I would say that the Xbox was a definite turning point for the console market. There really wasn't, and still isn't for the most part, room for three companies in the console market. Sega was squeezed out by Sony and Nintendo, and then Microsoft jumped in and suddenly Sony and Microsoft are trying to make really high end consoles with the ability to have really nice looking graphics... Problem is that it seems like game developers blow about 75% of the budget on the graphics, and then the actual game is treated like an afterthought if that. Plots suck, gameplay sucks, graphics are really pretty, but I thought I bought a game not a movie.

This again. Please, please, please, can people stop bringing it up?

It's nonsense.

And isn't it kind of well known that Microsoft as a game developer is really only interested in established franchises? They don't want to take a risk on creating a new game, so you just get a bunch of Halo and Fable titles. Even Fable has slowly devolved from an Action RPG to basically an action game with a smattering of RPG elements.

Well, Fable and Halo were new franchises at one point.

As was Mass Effect.

The developer is moaning about not being able create a new Conkers, or Killer Instinct game... both of which are established franchises.

 

[Veliko]

Thing is, when they were with Nintendo they would have freedom to explore projects like Conker's.

According to VGCharts which is the only info I can find, Conker's bad fur day sold less than 1 million copies. Around 770k worldwide. Although if you remember N64 was not as popular as the PSX and at the time the PS2 was being shown off and a lot of people were ready to jump ship.

Killer Instinct Gold for N64 sold about 820k units worldwide, again according to VGCharts which is all I can find.

I know people don't like VGCharts but I cannot find any other sales figures anywhere.

Rare also did Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 which sold millions in north america alone and since Microsoft acquired them have produced pretty much nothing of value. Kameo sold 300k worldwide, Viva Pinata sold 1.5Million worldwise with almost 1million of those sales coming from the EU market, Conker: Live and Reloaded for original Xbox sold less than the original N64 title, Perfect Dark Zero sold less than 750k units worldwide, Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts for 360 sold 710k worldwide.

So you see, with Nintendo they made original content that sold millions and since Microsoft got hold of them they can't sell anything.

How are we defining original content? Banjo Kazooie was a new franchise, but it wasn't particularly original. Donkey Kong 64 wasn't a new franchise. Jet Force Gemini was a new franchise.

They were fantastic games, but not particularly original.

You've also listed some Rare games on the N64 that sold less than a million copies, and a Rare game on the 360 that sold more than a million.

 

[cmdrdredd]

How are we defining original content? Banjo Kazooie was a new franchise, but it wasn't particularly original. Donkey Kong 64 wasn't a new franchise. Jet Force Gemini was a new franchise.

They were fantastic games, but not particularly original.

You've also listed some Rare games on the N64 that sold less than a million copies, and a Rare game on the 360 that sold more than a million.

Games that are not sequels are original titles to me. Borrowing elements or names means nothing when 8t comes to game mechanics etc. Also, look at what happened when microsoft got them. Only two games that were not a sequel or remake before they became a Kinect dev.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

You've also listed some Rare games on the N64 that sold less than a million copies, and a Rare game on the 360 that sold more than a million.

Comparing sales numbers on a 15 year old piece of hardware to a current gen is very misleading. There is a huge difference in the number of people actively playing games regularly now as compared to back then.

On another note, Killer Instinct 3 would have sold a ton. Almost everyone I know who has played fighting games loved that game, me included. Given the recent success of fighting game stalwarts, a revival of that franchise seems like it would have been a natural money maker.

 

[Veliko]

Games that are not sequels are original titles to me. Borrowing elements or names means nothing when 8t comes to game mechanics etc. Also, look at what happened when microsoft got them. Only two games that were not a sequel or remake before they became a Kinect dev.

I think it's important to look at Rare before MS bought them.

Why do you think Nintendo wanted to sell? The writing was on the wall already.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I think it's important to look at Rare before MS bought them.

Why do you think Nintendo wanted to sell? The writing was on the wall already.

I think you have it backwards. I think Rare wanted out and was fed up with Nintendo. Remember Nintendo hasn't had a superior system in terms of hardware in a long time. My bet? Rare wanted to stretch their limits a bit more.

It is also well known how hostile Nintendo has been to developers working on Nintendo hardware in the past.

 

[Veliko]

I think you have it backwards. I think Rare wanted out and was fed up with Nintendo. Remember Nintendo hasn't had a superior system in terms of hardware in a long time. My bet? Rare wanted to stretch their limits a bit more.

It is also well known how hostile Nintendo has been to developers working on Nintendo hardware in the past.

Less than half a thread ago, you said the following.

So did MS break Rare, or did Nintendo break them?

Thing is, when they were with Nintendo they would have freedom to explore projects like Conker's.

 

[Anarchist420]

I'm pretty sure that rare wanted to leave nintendo, not nintendo wanting rare to leave them.

That said, a hypothetical ki3 would be extremely profitable. Microsoft just sucks for the most part. The Xbox 360 sucked both in terms of reliability, feature set, and power and they don't have any good exclusives. Windows 8 sucks or so I heard and I heard the xbox720 is going to be underpowered and have a poor feature set... what other crap is new from the the big business establishment?

 

[purbeast0]

i would LOVE me a KI3 game, especially with the rebirth of fighters this gen.

there were a lot of hints about it, including ki3 boxes in some other rare titles.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Less than half a thread ago, you said the following.

So did MS break Rare, or did Nintendo break them?

Nintendo gave them an open ear, but are very restrictive on their devs. They will take your idea and make changes and say "do it this way". Nintendo is controlling but by comparison Microsoft is much worse. They won't even give an idea the time of day.

I bet they didn't know Microsoft was going to be this way when they signed on.