Illegal US immigrants far likelier to be working than American men

[bozack]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...-than-american-men/ar-BBqNgEp?ocid=spartandhp

Title says it all, pretty sad state of affairs when you have less of a chance securing work when your born here compared to those who skirt the system and get in illegally.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not exactly a fair comparison. Illegals aren't able to mooch off of most social benefits, so naturally if they're coming here, it's to work and/or to have children become American citizens. Like, international tourists coming to Vegas are more likely to party than the people that live there too, because why else would someone go to the effort of flying there? Additionally, all populations will have some portion of men that are crippled, lazy, excessively dumb, or some combination of the above. Mexico has those too, but they're not coming here when they can live with Mama and Papa and maybe help entertain the nephews and nieces. Our real problem is the number of what are simply inferior human beings, given the good fortune of being born here but not doing anything with that, people whose tax payments will never come close to the amount of social benefits they receive. Illegal immigration has its issues, but it's a perfectly natural response to jobs that pay more than they're worth, and people that are enabled to not work whether due to social services or family allowing them.

EDIT: I didn't click the link until just now, those graphs are a beautiful illustration of how easy the developed middle-class has had it. Now they're finally starting to feel the pressures of competition, and all hell breaks loose. Go China! Go Mexico!

 

[Zaap]

Looks like things are right on track.

So let's recap:

Outsourcing= BAAAAD. If a company moves its operations overseas to hire workforces in that country, BOO HISSSSSS!!! That's unfair.

Insourcing= GOOOOOOOOD. In fact, this is a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE of the highest order. Being against this is being a nazi, racist, just like Hitler.

If a company wants to stay right here in the good ol' US of A and not even suffer the cost of moving, enjoy the better infrastructure, AND hire a cheap non-citizen workforce that's been coaxed in against immigration and labor laws: YAY!!! They are civil rights champions!

They do it because they LOOOVE poor people from nations like Mexico and just want to help them out. A native citizen against this is just: racist, greedy and xenophobic, and boo-hoo, you don't want to be that now do you?

Now all we need is 'comprehensive immigration reform', AKA: just put a cap in the ass of any leftover laws some xenophobic racists may be using against that steady flow of nation-level scab labor... because, racism.

 

[Brian Stirling]

In the low skilled and no skilled portion of the workforce someone willing to work for less than minimum wage will be more likely to be employed that someone expecting the legal minimum. Employers get away with it in a number of ways with the most common being that they don't actually hire the workers directly and instead hire labor contractors that provide the legal cutout.

In 1960 Edward R. Murrow produced a hugely significant documentary, A Harvest of Shame, on Migrant Workers, the term used at the time for mostly illegal labor working in agriculture, and detailed the abuses to them. As significant as his story was it did almost nothing to stop a system that business wanted -- a system to provide very cheap labor.

Over the years others industries began to exploit this as well and for the same reason -- profit. So much so, in fact, that many illegals that used to do the hard labor of picking fruit and vegetables wandered off the farms and began the somewhat easier work of building homes and working in factories. One of my previous employers, SVG (Silicon Valley Group) had an assembly plant near Anaheim California and they employed nothing but Mexican workers to physically assemble the million dollar process tools and then final test was done by mostly Vietnamese workers.

By the mid 2000's many of the big agri-businesses were complaining that they were finding it tough to get and keep workers and they actually petitioned the state government in California to enact laws that would permit them to bring in workers that would not be allowed to wander off to other work. What they wanted and actually petitioned for was a return to indentured servitude -- a somewhat kinder and gentler form of slavery.


Brian

 

[alcoholbob]

Which kind of shows how our immigration program is completely upside down.

Our illegal immigrants should be our legal immigrants, and be legalized guest workers, like the system of many of the oil rich Middle East countries.

Our legal immigrants are the problem, since the 1965 immigration act our immigration policy took a 180, and the majority of our immigrants are from family reunification instead of a labor-based immigration system, which is exploding our entitlement system. You let a high skill laborer in the country? Great! Now you gotta pay for his elderly parents, his unemployed sister, and his 5 older brothers who have no skills or education, and who have never paid into the entitlement system. One of my neighbors is a recent immigrant, and he brought his parents over. They instantly qualified for low income apartments, and pay $200/month for nice cushy subsidized senior housing apartments and are instantly enrolled into Medicare. Whereas I'm paying $2k/month in rent in the same city. The entire entitlement system in this country is just bonkers.

 

[Zaap]

Over the years others industries began to exploit this as well and for the same reason -- profit.

What amazes me: in just about ANY other topic that involved business, the above statement is just a given.

But in this discussion: it's like you just farted fire out your ass straight into the faces of the pro-illegal immigration crowd to DARE make the above statement. "PROFIT!!??? Are you MAD!!??!"

I've heard every 'argument' there is from the pro-illegal crowd about how open borders and allowing any and everyone is just good for all of us, how they pay taxes, how I couldn't afford lettuce unless brown-skinned foreigners are here being exploited to provide it for me cheap... but dammit, don't say it's because businesses want to profit vs. hiring an American at a decent wage.

These are in fact... (drumroll.........)

Jobs Americans Won't Do (TM).

What they wanted and actually petitioned for was a return to indentured servitude -- a somewhat kinder and gentler form of slavery.

Now you've gone and done it. What on earth does luring in droves of dark-skinned people to toil away in fields and do jobs cheaper than a full citizen have to do with... *GASP* slavery?!!

Not only is it unlike slavery- this is the gravest civil rights issue of our time! (allowing it to continue unchecked and expand that is, not putting a lid on it in any way.)

It's such a grave civil rights issue, you're supposed to tar and feather anyone of a certain race who says they might vote for a guy who wants to get tough on stopping the illegal supply train rolling.

 

[Vic]

Is there really that much affirmative action going on in the migrant farm worker trade?

 

[Vic]

What amazes me: in just about ANY other topic that involved business, the above statement is just a given.

But in this discussion: it's like you just farted fire out your ass straight into the faces of the pro-illegal immigration crowd to DARE make the above statement. "PROFIT!!??? Are you MAD!!??!"

I've heard every 'argument' there is from the pro-illegal crowd about how open borders and allowing any and everyone is just good for all of us, how they pay taxes, how I couldn't afford lettuce unless brown-skinned foreigners are here being exploited to provide it for me cheap... but dammit, don't say it's because businesses want to profit vs. hiring an American at a decent wage.

These are in fact... (drumroll.........)

Jobs Americans Won't Do (TM).



Now you've gone and done it. What on earth does luring in droves of dark-skinned people to toil away in fields and do jobs cheaper than a full citizen have to do with... *GASP* slavery?!!

Not only is it unlike slavery- this is the gravest civil rights issue of our time! (allowing it to continue unchecked and expand that is, not putting a lid on it in any way.)

It's such a grave civil rights issue, you're supposed to tar and feather anyone of a certain race who says they might vote for a guy who wants to get tough on stopping the illegal supply train rolling.

Sorry, but this is an absurd straw man. What the SJW's want is for those poor oppressed undocumented laborers to be given a legal path to citizenship so that they receive the equal protection of the laws and so not be enslaved any more.
I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that maintaining (or even escalating) the current system where illegals are denied basic legal protections is going to help their plight?

 

[WackyDan]

Illegals aren't able to mooch off of most social benefits

Wrong. Have a baby here and the benefits are sent to the legal guardian. That means food stamps, among other benefits. The legal guardian does not have to be a legal citizen.

 

[Zaap]

Sorry, but this is an absurd straw man. What the SJW's want is for those poor oppressed undocumented laborers to be given a legal path to citizenship so that they receive the equal protection of the laws and so not be enslaved any more.

Right. I just made up the "Jobs Americans Won't Do (TM)" meme myself, right here, out of whole cloth. Just off the top of my head. No one's ever heard that before.

I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that maintaining (or even escalating) the current system where illegals are denied basic legal protections is going to help their plight?

I'm the one saying let's STOP the plantation owners from getting away with this and enforce our immigration and labor laws.

The whole enterprise is rotten to the core: it exploits the illegal labor. It short-changes the American worker whose jobs are turned into (remember this one I just made up?) JAWD. It turns the poorest communities in the nation into the slave quarters of the wealthy in their gated communities across town who just want an endless supply of cheap landscapers and could care less where those people LIVE, whose neighborhoods they turn into the third world, how many hospitals, schools and social services are overrun in some poor area.

I'm not interested in the false bullshit of 'just give them legal rights' rather- throw the book at the industries that use all this labor, JAIL TERMS for the worst offenders, HEFTY fines, social stigma etc, and dry the whole practice up. People will simply go back where they came from if the jobs are no longer there.

No incentive for more to be here because we've wised the hell up and actually enforce our laws- then our illegal immigration problem isn't as huge. All the pathway to citizenship bullshit is just that- it's by people who want to use the current crop of illegals to become citizens to vote in more open borders bullshit and continue the practice on even larger scales across even more industries.

They also want the reward of "Just sneak in... Just get everything a full citizen does!" used as the nation's driving immigration policy, which is pretty much a recipe for turning the nation into the very third world that will come running here for that. In other words- it's bullshit.

 

[Vic]

Right. I just made up the "Jobs Americans Won't Do (TM)" meme myself, right here, out of whole cloth. Just off the top of my head. No one's ever heard that before.



I'm the one saying let's STOP the plantation owners from getting away with this and enforce our immigration and labor laws.

The whole enterprise is rotten to the core: it exploits the illegal labor. It short-changes the American worker whose jobs are turned into (remember this one I just made up?) JAWD. It turns the poorest communities in the nation into the slave quarters of the wealthy in their gated communities across town who just want an endless supply of cheap landscapers and could care less where those people LIVE, whose neighborhoods they turn into the third world, how many hospitals, schools and social services are overrun in some poor area.

I'm not interested in the false bullshit of 'just give them legal rights' rather- throw the book at the industries that use all this labor, JAIL TERMS for the worst offenders, HEFTY fines, social stigma etc, and dry the whole practice up. People will simply go back where they came from if the jobs are no longer there.

No incentive for more to be here because we've wised the hell up and actually enforce our laws- then our illegal immigration problem isn't as huge. All the pathway to citizenship bullshit is just that- it's by people who want to use the current crop of illegals to become citizens to vote in more open borders bullshit and continue the practice on even larger scales across even more industries.

Yaknow, if it wasn't for this ridiculous mentality, Hispanics would vote Republican in overwhelming numbers. You just don't get it.

 

[Brian Stirling]

What amazes me: in just about ANY other topic that involved business, the above statement is just a given.

But in this discussion: it's like you just farted fire out your ass straight into the faces of the pro-illegal immigration crowd to DARE make the above statement. "PROFIT!!??? Are you MAD!!??!"

I've heard every 'argument' there is from the pro-illegal crowd about how open borders and allowing any and everyone is just good for all of us, how they pay taxes, how I couldn't afford lettuce unless brown-skinned foreigners are here being exploited to provide it for me cheap... but dammit, don't say it's because businesses want to profit vs. hiring an American at a decent wage.

These are in fact... (drumroll.........)

Jobs Americans Won't Do (TM).



Now you've gone and done it. What on earth does luring in droves of dark-skinned people to toil away in fields and do jobs cheaper than a full citizen have to do with... *GASP* slavery?!!

Not only is it unlike slavery- this is the gravest civil rights issue of our time! (allowing it to continue unchecked and expand that is, not putting a lid on it in any way.)

It's such a grave civil rights issue, you're supposed to tar and feather anyone of a certain race who says they might vote for a guy who wants to get tough on stopping the illegal supply train rolling.

Actually, full on slavery never ended in the USA or just about anywhere else for that matter. To this day there are many MANY slaves in the USA. Many of them are sexual slaves, some are domestic slaves in rich households, and many are slaves in sweatshops etc.

Sadly, slavery never ended...


Brian

 

[Zaap]

Yaknow, if it wasn't for this ridiculous mentality, Hispanics would vote Republican in overwhelming numbers. You just don't get it.

LOL. Look at how racist your mindset is, like so many leftloons.

Hispanic= automatically illegal immigrant= MUST agree with open-borders loons and accept the third world dumped on them because to think that's BULLSHIT reguardless of anything to do with your race= RACISM!!

Congrats though, for illustrating how effective the civil rights snowjob is, as I pointed out in the first place.

Your whole 'argument' as racist as leftloons get is basically: "Don't those hive-mind always loving illegal immigration Hispanics know what's good for them??!"

 

[Zaap]

Sadly, slavery never ended...

The saddest (and BLAZINGLY IRONIC) thing to me, is that the modern day slavers -who simply view it as smart business policy without all the racial and pretending to fully 'own' other people who are seen as inferiors crap- have actually HIJACKED the civil rights movement that helped crush the terrible legacy of the first model of slavery...

... and have convinced absolute DIMWITS to celebrate their new version (exploiting labor that's not forced to be here, but lured here via economic/political exploitation) as itself a civil rights triumph!

So much so that we witness the idiotic idea that anyone hispanic is supposed to be RAH RAH for illegal immigration to the point of absolute hatred for anyone whose against it because it's somehow racist to NOT want to let people get away with exploiting their fellow race, at the expense of themselves and other Americans.


It's a PR victory for the 'slavers' of monumental proportion. The original model was certainly never going to get that sort of PR success, but the new version is just smooth sailing.

 

[trenchfoot]

I see in this thread that all of those big businesses and others that break the law by hiring illegals are getting another free pass........as usual.

 

[Vic]

LOL. Look at how racist your mindset is, like so many leftloons.

Hispanic= automatically illegal immigrant= MUST agree with open-borders loons and accept the third world dumped on them because to think that's BULLSHIT reguardless of anything to do with your race= RACISM!!

Congrats though, for illustrating how effective the civil rights snowjob is, as I pointed out in the first place.

Your whole 'argument' as racist as leftloons get is basically: "Don't those hive-mind always loving illegal immigration Hispanics know what's good for them??!"

Whatever and however you want to spun it, buddy. It's not racism, it's just my own personal experience and observation that legal immigrants tend to embrace all those ideals of the American Dream that all the RWNJ's posting from their mom's basement claim to love. Not all of them, of course, but a significant enough ratio, respectively.

 

[soundforbjt]

I see in this thread that all of those big businesses and others that break the law by hiring illegals are getting another free pass........as usual.

Of course. It's those damn illegals making the poor innocent job creators hire them.

 

[trenchfoot]

Of course. It's those damn illegals making the poor innocent job creators hire them.

lol :thumbsup:

 

[Zaap]

Whatever and however you want to spun it, buddy. It's not racism, it's just my own personal experience and observation that legal immigrants tend to embrace all those ideals of the American Dream that all the RWNJ's posting from their mom's basement claim to love. Not all of them, of course, but a significant enough ratio, respectively.

Aww how original, Vic trying to play fast and loose with legal/vs. illegal like all the open-borders nuts do.

Yeah, that REALLY works. No one can tell the difference.

 

[michal1980]

Sorry, but this is an absurd straw man. What the SJW's want is for those poor oppressed undocumented laborers to be given a legal path to citizenship so that they receive the equal protection of the laws and so not be enslaved any more.
I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that maintaining (or even escalating) the current system where illegals are denied basic legal protections is going to help their plight?

undocumented? you mean illegal.

Come on, just come out,

Tell us you like illegal immigrants lowering wages, taking low wage jobs, filling schools with illegal kids that use tax payer resources.


Admit that, and then defend your position.

Please tell us why we need millions of illegal immigrants when American wages are stagnet, and when americans (esppically those with little education) are unemployed.

Please do.

Why do we need these millions of illegals?

 

[LegendKiller]

Sorry, but this is an absurd straw man. What the SJW's want is for those poor oppressed undocumented laborers to be given a legal path to citizenship so that they receive the equal protection of the laws and so not be enslaved any more.
I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that maintaining (or even escalating) the current system where illegals are denied basic legal protections is going to help their plight?

Gosh, somebody doing something illegal is treated poorly.

What's hilarious is that people who are for legalization of illegals and against deporting them usually use the notion that American workers demand too much pay. Well, what happens when illegals become legal and the criminality threat of deportation is gone?

Get rid of illegals, wages will raise, and unemployment will fall.

 

[Genx87]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...-than-american-men/ar-BBqNgEp?ocid=spartandhp

Title says it all, pretty sad state of affairs when you have less of a chance securing work when your born here compared to those who skirt the system and get in illegally.

1. This may say more about the legal native born men than the illegal immigrant
2. This should helpd dispell the myth illegals are lazy and only here sucking on the mother teet of our welfare state.

 

[Svnla]

Sorry, but this is an absurd straw man. What the SJW's want is for those poor oppressed undocumented laborers to be given a legal path to citizenship so that they receive the equal protection of the laws and so not be enslaved any more.
I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that maintaining (or even escalating) the current system where illegals are denied basic legal protections is going to help their plight?

Did we try the "given a legal path to citizenship" for MILLION and MILLION of ILLEGALS in the 80's during Reagan's administration? Sure we did. What was the result? Do we have MORE or LESS of ILLEGALS now? Of course MORE and MORE, MILLION and MILLION MORE.


So we are going to do another one but EVEN MORE ILLEGALS this time (at least 11 MILLIONS of them ILLEGALS or even MORE)? But this time, it will work? x 10000000000000000000000000000.

I mean, let's stop a minute and think about this.. do you really believe that do the same thing over and over again but expect different result is NOT stupid/insanity/crazy?

One more thing, there is no such thing as "undocumented". Try to go to Mexico or anywhere on Earth and pull the "undocumented" excuse when you do not have permission to stay in a sovereign nation and see what the local enforcement will say to you.

 

[zinfamous]

well, I guess we can't call them lazy, eh?

One thing I never understood: complaining about no jobs and being out of work, yet refusing to take shitty pay for shitty work. Yes, there are obviously other factors regarding payroll and what not here...but how is zero income better than shitty income? Are unemployed low-skill American workers truly as lazy as everyone claims?

On top of that, the real problem here are the employers that are breaking all sorts of laws hiring illegals. Tighten that shit up and put them out of business if they don't hire unemployed Americans.

Stop believing the lies of Dole corp that in one hand supports the GOP and their anti-illegal stance, but in the other hand distributes fliers all over Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez about easy and lucrative employment in the USA.

 

[hal2kilo]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...-than-american-men/ar-BBqNgEp?ocid=spartandhp

Title says it all, pretty sad state of affairs when you have less of a chance securing work when your born here compared to those who skirt the system and get in illegally.

Much easier to get away with under paying and not even paying for hours worked when your worker has no recourse to complain.