Rant I'm an old man and I hate software updates

[mikeymikec]

To be completely fair about the Linux point release upgrade, it went completely fine apart from a couple of aesthetic details. I put it off for some months after the initial release, I did a fairly comprehensive personal data backup beforehand, it was the first time (IIRC) I had an in-place Linux upgrade installed, no other complaints.

 

[nakedfrog]

I keep saying no to MS's Win11 update. Until I hear a reason I should, I won't.

The only reason to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 was lack of further security updates for Win7. There's nothing Win10 does for me that Win7 didn't do, and it does some things worse. I expect this pattern to continue.

 

[Kaido]

The only reason to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 was lack of further security updates for Win7. There's nothing Win10 does for me that Win7 didn't do, and it does some things worse. I expect this pattern to continue.

I still prefer Windows 7. I'm on Windows 11 at home for compatibility reasons & I've more or less gotten used to it at this point.

I was heavily into the Mac world for awhile, but then Apple neglected FCP for video editing in favor of the iPhone, so I switched to Adobe Premiere, then switched back to Windows due to cross-compatibility & cost, and have been back every since! Still like Macs tho. Finally retired my wife's Hackintosh & got her an M1 Macbook awhile back...the sucker screams! Really amazing what laptops can do these days! They even stuck a 4090 in a laptop:

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Gaming-GeForce-i9-13980HX-Windows/dp/B0BT5VWL2H

 

[BoomerD]

Well...the latest Anandtech Forum "update" certainly seems to fit this thread...

It's not necessarily...BAD, it's just...different. (and not really in a good way)

 

[mindless1]

I hate software updates.

If it ain't borken, don't fixeded it (lol).

I understand some weak paranoid people read all the cries from pretend-security experts that the sky is falling if you don't update. Most often they are ignorant idiots who don't bother to actually learn what the vulnerabilities were that were patched and then ask if any of those specific vulnerabilities would affect the specific use.

SO, dumbasses that don't know what they pretend to know, if they don't have any specific evidence to go on and just try to make some vague statement about something they don't understand.

Updates for more features is a good thing. For security? Not so much, most exploits these days are about social engineering or doing something stupid like visiting questionable sites and having scripting enabled by default, and even then, on a system you also use for sensitive data, and even then, not monitoring what is going on and having a partition backup

There's bound to be some obscure exploit and scenario that gets around all that. There's also a chance I'll be hit by lightning in the next minute. I go out of my way not to offend Zeus and if you don't make yourself a target, similarly there is a sane limit to the burdens you put yourself through. Except for banking.

 

[Captante]

Well...the latest Anandtech Forum "update" certainly seems to fit this thread...

It's not necessarily...BAD, it's just...different. (and not really in a good way)

The forum posting-window toolbar continues the lame-a$$ Win 10/11 trend of burying formerly immediately accessible menu-items successively deeper down in a stupid menu. (to be fair Win 7 pulled the same B$)

 

[mindless1]

The only reason to upgrade from Win7 to Win10 was lack of further security updates for Win7. There's nothing Win10 does for me that Win7 didn't do, and it does some things worse. I expect this pattern to continue.

I'm not insecure on my WIn7 boxes. It's all about point of entry and that's about the apps not the OS. If the app you want, ceases to have updates past win7 and have a glaring security vulnerability, there's that, but I'd like to see a list of those from those who just do vague hand waving and imply things without evidence of specific threats that are applicable in a typical situation.

This is not some kind of challenge. I'd genuinely like to see any threat that the average person would face running Win7, or even WInXP, "if" all else were equal meaning the same app versions which of course is not possible but it comes back to the issue of how obscure the threat is since the apps also removed vulnerabilities with each newer version.

I'd like to issue a challenge. Someone point me to where I shouldn't go, shouldn't do on a win7 box, short of deliberately executing malware, and I'll do that. If in the rare case there's a problem, I'll do a partition restore in a few minutes but I won't hold my breath waiting for that rare event. It hasn't happened yet.

IMO you are far more vulnerable to social engineering hacks than anything else, where it didn't matter what OS or app version you were running.

 

[Indus]

Yep me too.. I really don't like updates and like my virtual home, back and all app keys instead of the damn swipes



And I keep saying fuck off to the FREE upgrade to Win 11 from 10.

 

[Captante]

I'm not insecure on my WIn7 boxes. It's all about point of entry and that's about the apps not the OS. If the app you want, ceases to have updates past win7 and have a glaring security vulnerability, there's that, but I'd like to see a list of those from those who just do vague hand waving and imply things without evidence of specific threats that are applicable in a typical situation.

This is not some kind of challenge. I'd genuinely like to see any threat that the average person would face running Win7, or even WInXP, "if" all else were equal meaning the same app versions which of course is not possible but it comes back to the issue of how obscure the threat is since the apps also removed vulnerabilities with each newer version.

I'd like to issue a challenge. Someone point me to where I shouldn't go, shouldn't do on a win7 box, short of deliberately executing malware, and I'll do that. If in the rare case there's a problem, I'll do a partition restore in a few minutes but I won't hold my breath waiting for that rare event. It hasn't happened yet.

IMO you are far more vulnerable to social engineering hacks than anything else, where it didn't matter what OS or app version you were running.

I wouldn't run Win 7 on anything other than a VM if it's touching the internet.... at this point it absolutely is not secure. (unless you paid M$ for extended support maybe)

You are however correct that social engineering and advertising-based malware are somewhat greater risks than an insecure/unsupported OS.

 

[Captante]

Yep me too.. I really don't like updates and like my virtual home, back and all app keys instead of the damn swipes

View attachment 78824

And I keep saying fuck off to the FREE upgrade to Win 11 from 10.

Windows 11 really does suck, doesn't it?

*(hopefully that means 12 will be good?)

 

[igor_kavinski]

You forgot Windows 9

 

[mindless1]

I wouldn't run Win 7 on anything other than a VM if it's touching the internet.... at this point it absolutely is not secure. (unless you paid M$ for extended support maybe)

You are however correct that social engineering and advertising-based malware are somewhat greater risks than an insecure/unsupported OS.

Point me to a site, or anything else, where best computing practices would be a problem on a win7 box.

This is a long standing challenge to anyone. Years from now, yet alone today. Anyone who pretends you can't have a secure win7 system (behind a router of course), throw your challenge at me. It has to be a normal activity, not some ridiculous rare scenario which does not apply to normal home use. Corporate use is a different ball game and depends on more factors.

Best to ignore pretend security experts that just do hand waving and vague pretend knowledge if they don't have a specific exploit that your specific use makes you vulnerable to. This was the (more lie than) truth that Microsoft spun to sell each new OS and the ignorant masses wanted desperately to be windows experts so they regurgitated the myth before they even digested it.

I don't mean to come off as offensive. Just sayin', either it's a myth or you can prove it, and I'm a willing participant in that. It will do me no harm, if I were wrong, I can easily nuke an OS partition from orbit and be back where I was in 5 minutes... or just switch computers. Waiting for someone to prove me wrong first hand...

On the other hand, there are other reasons someone might want to update to Win10 or 11, like DirectX or software version, or driver support. Point is, do that for those reasons, but security... isn't much of one for most people (who practice safe computing... there's no helping those who fall victim to social engineering).

 

[Captante]

Point is, do that for those reasons, but security... isn't much of one for most people

Nearly everyone who ended up "compromised" said something similar at some point in their computing career.

Feel free to live dangerously.... considering how rock-solid stable (and free with a 7 key) 10 is now I can't see any legit reason to go back to unsupported 7.

Crazy-me but I keep my PC 100% updated at all times.

 

[mindless1]

^ That's just it, a vague assumption that it's living dangerously when it isn't. The systems I have win7 on, have modern browsers. It's not about "go back to unsupported 7", rather not updating a system to a newer OS without some good reason and security just isn't one for the typical home environment. At the same time, I wouldn't put Win7 on a new build but that's more about driver and app support.

Did you know that Microsoft Security Essentials is still updating on Win7? Heh, I even consider just disabling that because it's never been needed.

RIght now if you're running Win10, at some point in the future there will be newer windows versions too, and you're going to think "oh noez you can't run win10, have to run win12 because 10 isn't secure"... yet you want to suggest 10 for security today?

I could put a Win95 box on my network and be secure, if only it had modern browser support. Keep it from using the ancient integral IE like when apps invoke an instance of it, and it's secure enough too.

Look at it another way. There are many people running older OS than Win10. Find me a real world example where someone doing normal things in a home enviroment was exploited due to using Win7, rather than some other problem. There must be examples if it's a legit threat, right?

I can find examples of peoples' homes being invaded but right now my door isn't locked, nor do I have a shotgun pointed at it, and I'm not updating to the latest greatest locks, reinforcing every door and window frame, or getting a guard dog either. I'm not even wearing a tin foil hat. Meh I guess I'm just used to living dangerously, lol.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Relying only on updates as a security measure is pretty much futile. Nothing is ever going to be up to date. It's best to not expose computers directly to the internet, and to use other security measures that are more "catch all" like putting super critical stuff on a different vlan or maybe even using the browser in a VM only so if you get compromised it's only affecting that VM. That's a pita to do though...

There is always a risk vs usability choice one has to make and one needs to decide how far they want to go.

Just because you're fully updated does not mean you're secure. Of course anything that faces internet should be kept up to date, but don't rely only on that.

Web browsers are also a huge attack surface and it really doesn't matter how updated it is as long as scripting remains possible.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm somewhere between mindless1's opinion and captante's: I wouldn't assume that MS has been 100% forthcoming and accurate when they disclose what has been altered in their security updates, so therefore simply keeping an eye on patch notes isn't a perfect option. IMO it's also a reasonable assumption that (let's say) Win7 isn't particularly vulnerable on the Internet right now, that could change tomorrow. On the other hand, I've been running a computer fix-it business for twenty years and not once have I personally encountered a security compromise situation that I confidently believe was caused by a lack of Windows updates.

If I wasn't running my business (and so my home PC just did home personal stuff), I would have considered the option of staying with Win7 to a greater degree than I did. I had a customer stay on WinXP until the start of 2022, and the only reason they upgraded was because their utility company's website wouldn't work on Firefox 52 ESR. As I'm handling customer data, trying to keep things as practically secure as possible seems like a good idea.

Windows's regressive UI design bothers me less on a personal level these days because Linux is my primary desktop OS. Windows derpage would only really annoy me if I couldn't run say Tomb Raider 4 any more; the Win10 install on my Haswell box has a very limited usage scenario.

 

[nakedfrog]

Only 43 vulnerabilities so far this year. Yeah, locking my door might only stop people with a casual interest in getting in, but it's easy to do, so I do it.
I buckle my seatbelt too, even though I've never been in a real auto accident.

Microsoft Windows 7 - Security Vulnerabilities in 2024

stack.watch

 

[DigDog]

whenever X browser puts out Y update, i can google a thousand "disable Y feature X" threads from last week. just follow instructions.

 

[Captante]

Not sure how running unpatched software on an unsupported OS somehow equates to "best security practices" IRL. (lol)

But hey... you do you!

 

[Indus]

Only 43 vulnerabilities so far this year. Yeah, locking my door might only stop people with a casual interest in getting in, but it's easy to do, so I do it.
I buckle my seatbelt too, even though I've never been in a real auto accident.

Microsoft Windows 7 - Security Vulnerabilities in 2024

stack.watch

Don't you wish you still used Windows 98? 0 Vulnerabilities!

Microsoft Windows 98 - Security Vulnerabilities in 2023

stack.watch

 

[BoomerD]

LOL...I still have the retail CD's for XP Professional and 7 Professional...and...<gasp> Vista.

 

[lxskllr]

I have retail discs of ubuntu 5.10 somewhere. The only version of windows I bought was an oem copy of xp once. I got vista free somehow, and got in some educational arrangement that got me everything from xp to 7 and some server versions. Never used any of it :^D Vista was the last windows I used. It's still my favorite windows.

 

[A///]

Does anyone remember those old CD albums with the zipper that held something like 200-300 CDs you'd store in your car's boot for your six disc changer back when they were the hot stuff in the 90s? I've got about a dozen of those with burned discs and pressed discs going back to 98 or 99 when I got my first burner. I never throw anything away. Software boxes and manuals included. I figure one day when I do retire I'll scan and upload manuals for all the old and weird stuff I bought over my life in case it helps someone out there.

I still have a few sealed XP packages back from its launch date. I thought it was beautiful packaging. Looking back it was a waste of money. I thought I could eventually sell it for big money. They're probably worth $30-40 now.

 

[mindless1]

Only 43 vulnerabilities so far this year. Yeah, locking my door might only stop people with a casual interest in getting in, but it's easy to do, so I do it.
I buckle my seatbelt too, even though I've never been in a real auto accident.

Microsoft Windows 7 - Security Vulnerabilities in 2024

stack.watch

Completely different. I've been in real auto accidents (though never my fault), and while I can restore an OS partition image in under 5 minutes, not so much can I rewind time on an auto accident.

Even so, I use a seatbelt, because that's pertaining to a real consequence , based on inevitable physics, opposed to made up geek faux-expert BS which only applies if you have a pineapple on your head and flirt with the wrong girl on ladies free night at the local redneck bar. Then like magic, a partition image can put all that right again. I am ignoring bios exploits because let's be serious, it's so obscure that it would be stupid to fixate on it.

If you don't feel secure, and depend on an OS to save you then you still aren't secure. It can only mean that you don't know what you're doing, or don't trust yourself. I mean, if you like to get drunk and click any random thing that pops up from some porn or warez site, then yeah, it might be a special case where a matter of falling through space and someone needs to catch you.

Even then, my challenge is still open. Point me to some warez or porn site (though I'd rather something more main-stream) where one of my win7 boxes is doomed. Please make it worth the bother, some good porn or warez. I can at least get some trade value out of something good. Even then, if there is a mainstream non-porn/non-warez site compromised, I'd rather test that, see that site issue put down because those delving into the porn or warez, have to expect more shenanigans. Just sayin', don't put yourself in harms' way unless you are prepared for that.

 

[NTMBK]

LOL...I still have the retail CD's for XP Professional and 7 Professional...and...<gasp> Vista.

Hell, I still have discs for 98SE. Wouldn't try using it to browse the internet though!