I'm confused about Intels 14nm process lead

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carop

Member
Jul 9, 2012
91
7
71
Whats your take on if tsmc continue to use 2d routing? Change of design tools they provide?

I believe they intend to use 2D routing on metal 1, and 1D routing at the layers above metal 1. They also intend to use SADP to deliver 40nm metal pitches, and as far as I know SADP is 1D. So, the big unknown appears to be how TSMC will map the 40nm 2D metal 1 onto SADP.

I have seen some papers on how to map 2D layouts onto SADP, but I do not know how TSMC intends to do it.
 

carop

Member
Jul 9, 2012
91
7
71
Yeah you basically just went like this with credibility:

Well come to the bottom!

As Richard Feynman said: "There's Plenty of Room at the Bottom."

I can tell stories about how Intel normalizes its drive currents, and you can tell your stories about 1D metals vs 2D metals.

When, if at all, Intel discloses the transistor count and the die size of its Cherry Trail you can tell more stories about 1D metals vs 2D metals.
 

carop

Member
Jul 9, 2012
91
7
71
Hans either knows or should of known he was making an at best disingenuous argument. Using transistor counts without significant clarification and comparing designs that operate at rather significantly different Fmax and % of logic at Fmax does not for useful comparisons make.

I should let Hans answer this, but I believe his basic argument is that Intel has a density disadvantage because it is using 1D routing. Transistor counts follow from his 1D vs 2D routing argument. He even asked whether Intel would go back to 2D routing. I do not think Intel would even consider going back to 2D routing again, but I agree that 1D vs 2D routing should be a factor for explaining the density disadvantage.

Considering you don't even know how many metal layers standard cells generally use, you might want to back out of this argument space.

As far as I know, The first-level metal is instrumental for intracell routing because it can freely traverse layout items on any other conducting layer, can connect to all silicon layers with no detour, and acts as gateway to all metal layers above. Therefore, I believe using the metal 3 pitch in the Gate Pitch x Metal Pitch (70nm x 56nm) heuristic has to be justified.

Again, silicon does not lie. When, if at all, Intel discloses the transistor count and die size of its Cherry Trail, I expect that 1D vs 2D layouts will have to be considered further. So, there will be further discussions on credibilities, nosedives, etc ...
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
Again, silicon does not lie.
Yeah, just like for simplicity's sake Moore's Law is thinned down to 2x performance improvement every 2 years for the layman.

Transistor feature sizes and apples to apples comparisons don't lie (either).
 
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