Im getting kind of hot for the 8700K. Convince me I don't need it.

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rbk123

Senior member
Aug 22, 2006
745
348
136
Every for-profit corporation is greedy.
Er, that's the point. Intel, being a corporation, was greedy in sticking it to users because they could. It sure as hell wasn't to keep AMD in the game. That's laughable.

No doubt AMD would do the same if they could, but unfortunately for them they can't.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
1,511
73
91
Er, that's the point. Intel, being a corporation, was greedy in sticking it to users because they could. It sure as hell wasn't to keep AMD in the game. That's laughable.

No doubt AMD would do the same if they could, but unfortunately for them they can't.
It paid them to keep AMD in the game: they wouldn't have to worry about anti-trust litigation.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,051
4,276
136
If Intel hadn't stuffed up 10nm completely, they would have had 6 core & 8 core Cannonlake out long before Ryzen hit the scene.




I'm pretty sure you have been in quite a few threads where it has been pointed out that Intel had scheduled an 8 core on 10nm, long ago, but with their 10nm process being a disaster, that nixed all that.

And yet here you are claiming that 8 core is only coming because of Ryzen.

Intel has likely had 6 and 8 core designs in the labs for quite a while. The LACK of introducing them had nothing to do with AMD, it all had to do with margins. However, with Ryzen, Intel finally had to up their game a bit. It would take a fool not to see this. There is no way Intel would have released coffee lake as 6 cores had AMD not released Ryzen. When AMD regained the performance crown (ignore overclocking for a minute, that is only a small, but important niche of buyers), Intel had to do something to react. The 1800X basically became one of the fastest chips you could buy and leadership at Intel likely decided to release 6 cores starting with coffee lake to counter that. I would have done the same thing honestly. why double up on transistor count and cut margins in half if you don't have to? You can also bet your bottom dollar that Intel is working on some real IPC improvements behind closed doors along with true 8+ core designs for the future. When AMD releases the 2700X, Intel will again need to respond. Remember, this competition is good for consumers. Also remember that overclockers and tech junkies are a small subset of a much larger market. Intel doesn't want every Dell PC out there to have the AMD Ryzen logo on it, so they now have to make sure they have CPU designs that don't look like bulldozer did back in the day.

Many likely dispute this viewpoint, but I've been in the tech scene a long time. Intel has been doing the same thing since the 386 was released. Incremental improvements each year, sometimes you'll get some new technology when a competitor (Cyrix or AMD back in the day) leapfrogs you, sometimes you would get a new architecture (Pentium, Pentium Pro). Eventually competitors would be unable to keep up and Intel would slow down again. Then someone would step up like AMD did with the K6-2/K6-3 and then Athlon/Athlon 64 (which kicked the living redacted out of Intel in the P3/P4 days) and Intel would have to up the game again (The 'core' design was actually based off the old pentium pro design if I recall correctly). It is only a matter of time before AMD releases the Ryzen 3xxx series and Intel will have to have a new architecture or a heavily revamped one to compete. (I like to compare Ryzen with the K6-2 and Ryzen 2xxxx with the K6-3, but with a bit more OOMPH to them, since they compete very well). They are likely reworking a future release and working HARD on 10nm. . They are also working on discrete GPUs to help raise revenue/margins to counter the competition that AMD has brought to the market.

The next few years are likely to bring no shortage of surprises, that is for sure. Once AMD gets going on 7nm you'll see a new flagship GPU, a new flagship CPU, and then you'll see Intel push out a 10nm Flagship CPU and GPU to compete. There are also others with licenses for the x86 tech, and some patents have expired, so we could see other competitors in the future, and then you have ARM, Nvidia, and Windows on ARM. Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office will be available for ARM CPUs at some point in the future as well (and I mean FULL office), so you'll see some shift in that direction.

Profanity is not allowed in the tech areas.

AT Mod Usandthem

Edit: Sorry for the profanity.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: utmode
May 11, 2008
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Intel has likely had 6 and 8 core designs in the labs for quite a while. The LACK of introducing them had nothing to do with AMD, it all had to do with margins. However, with Ryzen, Intel finally had to up their game a bit. It would take a fool not to see this. There is no way Intel would have released coffee lake as 6 cores had AMD not released Ryzen. When AMD regained the performance crown (ignore overclocking for a minute, that is only a small, but important niche of buyers), Intel had to do something to react. The 1800X basically became one of the fastest chips you could buy and leadership at Intel likely decided to release 6 cores starting with coffee lake to counter that. I would have done the same thing honestly. why double up on transistor count and cut margins in half if you don't have to? You can also bet your bottom dollar that Intel is working on some real IPC improvements behind closed doors along with true 8+ core designs for the future. When AMD releases the 2700X, Intel will again need to respond. Remember, this competition is good for consumers. Also remember that overclockers and tech junkies are a small subset of a much larger market. Intel doesn't want every Dell PC out there to have the AMD Ryzen logo on it, so they now have to make sure they have CPU designs that don't look like bulldozer did back in the day.

Many likely dispute this viewpoint, but I've been in the tech scene a long time. Intel has been doing the same thing since the 386 was released. Incremental improvements each year, sometimes you'll get some new technology when a competitor (Cyrix or AMD back in the day) leapfrogs you, sometimes you would get a new architecture (Pentium, Pentium Pro). Eventually competitors would be unable to keep up and Intel would slow down again. Then someone would step up like AMD did with the K6-2/K6-3 and then Athlon/Athlon 64 (which kicked the living shit out of Intel in the P3/P4 days) and Intel would have to up the game again (The 'core' design was actually based off the old pentium pro design if I recall correctly). It is only a matter of time before AMD releases the Ryzen 3xxx series and Intel will have to have a new architecture or a heavily revamped one to compete. (I like to compare Ryzen with the K6-2 and Ryzen 2xxxx with the K6-3, but with a bit more OOMPH to them, since they compete very well). They are likely reworking a future release and working HARD on 10nm. . They are also working on discrete GPUs to help raise revenue/margins to counter the competition that AMD has brought to the market.

The next few years are likely to bring no shortage of surprises, that is for sure. Once AMD gets going on 7nm you'll see a new flagship GPU, a new flagship CPU, and then you'll see Intel push out a 10nm Flagship CPU and GPU to compete. There are also others with licenses for the x86 tech, and some patents have expired, so we could see other competitors in the future, and then you have ARM, Nvidia, and Windows on ARM. Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office will be available for ARM CPUs at some point in the future as well (and I mean FULL office), so you'll see some shift in that direction.

I might be wrong, but although the core design was based on the P6 architecture (which started with pentium pro), it was not really based upon the pentium pro.
The core architecture was based on heavily modified P III. Wider execution units and more execution units to be able to execute more in parallel and do better out of order execution and better speculation.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
I might be wrong, but although the core design was based on the P6 architecture (which started with pentium pro), it was not really based upon the pentium pro.
The core architecture was based on heavily modified P III. Wider execution units and more execution units to be able to execute more in parallel and do better out of order execution and better speculation.

Well, you both are right and wrong, lol.

Core came from Pentium M, which was a distinct beast from Pentium.

Pentium M -> Core -> Core 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_(microarchitecture)#P6_Variant_Pentium_M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_(microarchitecture)
 
May 11, 2008
20,055
1,290
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Well, you both are right and wrong, lol.

Core came from Pentium M, which was a distinct beast from Pentium.

Pentium M -> Core -> Core 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P6_(microarchitecture)#P6_Variant_Pentium_M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_(microarchitecture)

I vaguely recall that.
It makes sense though, Intel continued on the Pentium M at the time. At the time laptop market was increasing at an enormous rate.
A power efficient processor that also has a lot of calculation power for that time.
 

B-Riz

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2011
1,530
676
136
I vaguely recall that.
It makes sense though, Intel continued on the Pentium M at the time. At the time laptop market was increasing at an enormous rate.
A power efficient processor that also has a lot of calculation power for that time.

It came down to the P4 Netburst was horrible for notebooks, so they took P3 and went for everything but clocks to improve the mobile offering, which led to Core 2 marking the end of Netburst.
 

dsplover

Member
Nov 1, 2014
38
4
81
I need the fastest single core for 2 apps, then just decent multi threaded app performance.
i7 8700k with the new Supermicro X11 (Q370) I’ll bet set for quite a while.
Really wanted the new AMD 2400G but single core strength was slightly less than I hoped for.
AMD needs a really fast Quad with Vega, or maybe this Fall a six core equivalent.
They only need the same IPS per core of an Intel i7 4790k to get me back in their camp.
I loved AMD when it’s dual Athlon MPs and a Tyan Tiger ATX Smoked Intel.

Until then the i7 8700k.
That Dog will hunt...
 
May 11, 2008
20,055
1,290
126
It came down to the P4 Netburst was horrible for notebooks, so they took P3 and went for everything but clocks to improve the mobile offering, which led to Core 2 marking the end of Netburst.

Yeah, although they did take some very good ideas from the P4 like the uop trace cache and store previously converted x86 instructions as uops in the uops cache so that valuable cycles are not spend unnecessary in decoding the x86 instructions again when they are needed again. Freeing up the decoder.
 
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