I'm going to sound like a hipster, but you should only buy music on vinyl

[alkemyst]

I started collecting vinyl just over 10 years ago after I lost my cd collection in a fire. Mainly chose to go the vinyl route just for the hell of it. I can't remember the last time I bought a cd now. Everything I buy is either on vinyl or bd. I'm the first to admit that there is some crap vinyl pressings but over all I think it sounds better than cd. Also it's nice that most modern vinyl comes with a download code for portable listening. That's a lot easier that transferring the music myself.

Most recordings whether cassette, CD, or vinyl are shitastic.

There are some good recording studios like Blue Note Records and the like that put out very impressive recordings on modern formats.

 

[Rakehellion]

I would like to see a double blind experiment that showed this. Everything I've ever seen has shown that audiophiles are full of shit.

Also, Brooklyn. That explains alot.

You're actually trying to suggest that lossy compression is just as good as lossless audio?

 

[darkswordsman17]

If a few shitty Metallica and RHCP albums and a few more bad remasters = all albums, then sure

Its far more than that. Most albums now experience it. Kinda like how autotune took over.

So some people can't tell the difference. That isn't really relevant to the people who can.

You don't seem to understand. By some, we're talking like 99.9. If I'm not mistaken, they've even been able to prove for some tests that humans literally could not discern a difference as our ears are not capable of it. Its all psychosomatic, you convince yourself that you can.

That, or if you're clearly hearing a difference then its likely 2 things, you're not actually comparing the same recording, or you used an encoder that deliberately changes the sound to enhance perceived enjoyment (it focuses retaining data in certain frequency ranges so that the highs might be rolled off and the bass enhanced, or midrange, etc).

I'm not inclined to believe that. Why would they master the album to intentionally make it sound worse?

Also, I wasn't comparing a particular song to its digital version. The entire album sounded better that my whole digital library.

Doesn't matter what you believe, it is true. No one can figure out why they do it, but I'll posit some ideas as to why.

To them its not ruining it. Near as I can tell, producers like Rick Rubin saw sales success because they produced albums for popular musicians, and then got the say so. Him, and a lot of the rap producers (who produce music for more than just rap, guys like Timbaland and Dr Dre for instance) became popular and they all kept pushing the compression more and more. Then bands started wondering why their music wasn't as loud as others, so then they got theirs compressed to sound more in line, and then the labels basically saw it as an opportunity to push old music again and "remaster" it to dupe people into buying that it was better quality or just get it out there again.

This isn't something that happened over night, it actually started back in the 80s if I remember right, and just got worse and worse over time. Some compression is ok, its actually even preferrable as people generally don't like when a song is super quiet so you turn the volume way up, and then it suddently jumps 30-50dB. But they've way overdone it so that it smears all sound together, and often even clips. Clipping was normally because your equipment couldn't produce the signal properly, but because of what they've done they've basically made it so your equipment almost doesn't matter, it'll clip on good equipment because the recording clips.

Best guess is they're going "hey people are listening on radio, with crappy earbuds, on computer speakers, or TV speakers, no one cares" so they make it sound terrible on everything. To them, they're making it more consistent, so it'll sound similar, but in reality it just makes it sound worse everywhere.

Oh, and another thing, there's a well established bias of how people feel about a song based on the loudness. If one song is louder, its often perceived as sounding better.

Its like autotune. When used like it was supposed to be, its a good thing, but its been bastardized into an "artistic" choice and abused so that everyone sounds the same because they autotune the hell out of all the vocals.

That actually is my point. Modern recordings are by and large worse because of the mixing/mastering. Its not because its on vinyl that's making the real difference, its that the version of the recording is substantially different. What's mind blowing is how apparent it is that things sound better when they don't do that, but they still do.

Plus any time they've tried to sell better quality stuff they screw it up. Like SACD and DVD-A. Those failed, not because people weren't interested in quality (something to keep in mind is that at the time, the quality difference between CD and those formats wasn't really that noticeable, generally it didn't necessarily sound "better" more that it sounded different), but because they required expensive players, had DRM, and a bunch of other irritating things (like the fact that they were generally a lot more expensive than CDs, which they also were guilty of price fixing to make CDs more expensive). People didn't think it was worth it. SACD was also a considerably different format (that is actually seeing a bit of a renaissance digitally, DSD which a lot of newer DACs are capable of decodin). They also focused on "surround" more, which was fairly gimmicky (which surround in general is, especially since almost nothing is actually recorded in such a manner, like in movies, that's all affects that people do in a soundstage, so its not "real", although movie audio is pretty "not real" anyway so its not as big of a deal).

 

[alkemyst]

You're actually trying to suggest that lossy compression is just as good as lossless audio?

No one is saying that. What we are saying is what the ear and the environment one listens in will reveal.

 

[Rakehellion]

Its far more than that. Most albums now experience it. Kinda like how autotune took over.

A lot of pop music does it, but plenty don't. There are still people who know how to master and the difference is immediately noticeable.

You don't seem to understand. By some, we're talking like 99.9. If I'm not mistaken, they've even been able to prove for some tests that humans literally could not discern a difference as our ears are not capable of it. Its all psychosomatic, you convince yourself that you can.

"If I'm not mistaken." Right.

Prove it.

 

[Rakehellion]

No one is saying that. What we are saying is what the ear and the environment one listens in will reveal.

You're making a lot of very non-specific claims. Essentially, you're saying nothing.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

In the link YOU gave, it says they could tell the difference between Monster Cable and regular speaker wire. A coathanger isn't a good comparison for the reasons I gave.

You claim the test was bogus and thus the results were not legit. Fine. Then link to a test that you think IS legit where Monster Cable beats ANYTHING. A coat hanger, cheap speaker wire, a cord from a broken lamp, whatever. If the test parameters were what was keeping Monster Cable from beating a coat hanger than there just HAS to be a legit double blind test out there with parameters that you approve of where Monster Cable beats any other wire. Link please. I've searched and have been unable to find it.

 

[bradly1101]

http://gajitz.com/road-tunes-weird-vintage-1950s-in-car-record-players/

 

[Rakehellion]

You claim the test was bogus and thus the results were not legit. Fine. Then link to a test that you think IS legit where Monster Cable beats ANYTHING. A coat hanger, cheap speaker wire, a cord from a broken lamp, whatever. If the test parameters were what was keeping Monster Cable from beating a coat hanger than there just HAS to be a legit double blind test out there with parameters that you approve of where Monster Cable beats any other wire. Link please. I've searched and have been unable to find it.

I don't care about Monster Cables. At all. This thread is about vinyl.

The test is bogus because a coathanger is an excellent conductor of electricity, but inconvenient to use as speaker wire, therefore no one does it.

And you can't just discredit a link that you posted because you forgot to read the part that counters your pre-existing beliefs!

 

[Muse]

No, you do not come off as a hipster.

 

[Fritzo]

I've actually started buying records again...especially since Amazon gives you the free HQ MP3's with each purchase

Picked up a turn table at a garage sale, hooked it up to an amp, and I'm rockin'!

There's something to be said about listening to an album all the way through. It kind of puts the music in context...it gives the album a "flavor". Nobody writes albums anymore, they just make singles, and a lot of artistry is lost because of that.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I've actually started buying records again...especially since Amazon gives you the free HQ MP3's with each purchase

Picked up a turn table at a garage sale, hooked it up to an amp, and I'm rockin'!

There's something to be said about listening to an album all the way through. It kind of puts the music in context...it gives the album a "flavor". Nobody writes albums anymore, they just make singles, and a lot of artistry is lost because of that.

Nothing about a vinyl is unique in terms of albums. I can name a dozen albums off the top of my head that only work as a whole and they are all normal CD albums.

 

[Crotulus]

Nothing about a vinyl is unique in terms of albums. I can name a dozen albums off the top of my head that only work as a whole and they are all normal CD albums.

I think that Fritzo is referring to the idea that listening to vinyl forces you to listen to the whole album more so than a cd does. You can't just pick up the remote and skip tracks. Finding that one lead in for a particular song gets a bit difficult after a couple of whiskeys

 

[Fritzo]

Nothing about a vinyl is unique in terms of albums. I can name a dozen albums off the top of my head that only work as a whole and they are all normal CD albums.

With albums, you have to let the whole side play though. It's a pain in the ass to get up walk over to the turn table, and move the arm to a new track.

CD's you can listen for 5 seconds and skip skip skip skip skip that album sucked!

Also, people use iTunes or something similar now. Nobody has focused on album records for at least a decade.

 

[CZroe]

I think that Fritzo is referring to the idea that listening to vinyl forces you to listen to the whole album more so than a cd does. You can't just pick up the remote and skip tracks. Finding that one lead in for a particular song gets a bit difficult after a couple of whiskeys

Also, there is a lot more room for artistic accompaniment, like the art book with Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds musical prog-rock album. The dinky little CD booklet included with mine just isn't the same. It's still a million times better than a digital download.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

<snip>
Nobody has focused on album records for at least a decade.

Jack White/Neil Young
http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/segments/5846

I've been re-buying all of the vinyl I sold to buy cd's that I sold over time. I just enjoy the whole visceral process of putting the vinyl on the turntable, getting the needle positioned, dropping it and enjoying the album side from start to finish.

 

[darkswordsman17]

A lot of pop music does it, but plenty don't. There are still people who know how to master and the difference is immediately noticeable.



"If I'm not mistaken." Right.

Prove it.

Its not just pop music (in fact its probably even worse in other genres like rock and metal). Also, I'd love for you to show what ones you're talking about that don't exhibit a lot of the telltale problems with modern production/mixing/mastering. Actually didn't you start out saying how you've been listening to nothing but terrible sounding 256 AAC? How would you even know?

Actually that's the problem, the people doing it know how to properly do it, but they either still intentionally change it or don't have final say. The knowledge and tools for making excellent recordings are more available now than they've ever been, but very few are willing to adhere to it.

You'll notice a general trend to less dynamic range over time. Of course DR is just one aspect, and doesn't entirely account for all of the problems in modern recording, but its a pretty major one that is very prevalent.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/

Prove what? You're the one claiming you can hear the difference. There's a shitload of research on various audio/hearing topics, just Google it. I've seen more than enough "discussions" with people acting like you do and I don't care to waste my time bothering with it.

But here's a couple of links for you to get started:
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

 

[Fritzo]

Jack White/Neil Young
http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/segments/5846

I've been re-buying all of the vinyl I sold to buy cd's that I sold over time. I just enjoy the whole visceral process of putting the vinyl on the turntable, getting the needle positioned, dropping it and enjoying the album side from start to finish.

* in general

 

[mmntech]

Most recordings whether cassette, CD, or vinyl are shitastic.

There are some good recording studios like Blue Note Records and the like that put out very impressive recordings on modern formats.

Modern recording studios master for loudness over quality. That's what today's music consumer prefers. However, clipping eliminated punchier sounds, which is why music today sounds muted compared to an album that was mastered 30+ years ago.

They even do this when remastering older albums. The loudness of "Something" was doubled between the original Vinyl of Abbey Road and the CD version that came out in the early 90s. They doubled the loudness again between the CD and the compilation album "1".

So yes, vinyl does indeed sound better if it's old enough. A lot of the newer albums are pressed using the same "loud" masters though.

Blue Note is the première jazz label, and a lot of audiophiles are big jazz fans. So it makes sense they would choose quality over loudness.

 

[88keys]

I used to scoff at vinyl. Until a friend showed me what I'm missing.

But the difference for the most part comes down to how it was mixed for vinyl as opposed to CD. But there are other subtle differences.

If you want the vinly sound without the vinyl, your best bet might be to ahem.... check the commerce raiders dock....

 

[Rakehellion]

Its not just pop music (in fact its probably even worse in other genres like rock and metal)

Rock and metal are pop.

Prove what? You're the one claiming you can hear the difference. There's a shitload of research on various audio/hearing topics, just Google it. I've seen more than enough "discussions" with people acting like you do and I don't care to waste my time bothering with it.

You're the one who made the bold claims, so the burden of proof is on you, homie.

But here's a couple of links for you to get started:
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

I don't see anything that backs up your "99.9" claim.

 

[MongGrel]

Rock and metal are pop.

Millions of people disagree, I'm sure.

 

[NutBucket]

If it's a not a top iTunes download it's not pop

 

[alkemyst]

Rock and metal are pop.



You're the one who made the bold claims, so the burden of proof is on you, homie.



I don't see anything that backs up your "99.9" claim.

WTF?!?!?

You try too hard to troll.

 

[motsm]

They also focused on "surround" more, which was fairly gimmicky (which surround in general is, especially since almost nothing is actually recorded in such a manner, like in movies, that's all affects that people do in a soundstage, so its not "real", although movie audio is pretty "not real" anyway so its not as big of a deal).

All the surround mixes I own are vast improvements to the stereo mixes. Perhaps a surround mix of a recording done 30 years prior with just a handful of original tracks could come off as cheesy, but I've never had that experience with anything modern.