I'm in tears right now...

[brigden]

Originally posted by: jyates

Originally posted by: brigden
Why are American efforts being spent waging war on a country that posed little danger to the American public and international community?


Why not focus on wiping out Al Qaeda?

Do you happen to have their current address?

No, but maybe they're hiding with the WMD's in Iraq.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Originally posted by: Isshinryu

Originally posted by: bobbybe01

Look, it really doesn't matter if one soldier agrees with it or not. The fact is, they are doing something that the leaders of our country asked them to do. Whether our leaders are misguiding or not, to me, isn't the point here. They are still sacrificing their time, health, family, and in some cases, their lives. There are probably very few who want to be out there blowing up people. Their sacrifice will always be worthwhile.

I'm talking about their personal feeling, ya wanker. It feels a hell of alot better to fight for something you believe in then it does to fight because you have to.

Sure it feels better if you actually agree with it. But in either case, Mr. Wanker, it's still an honorable thing. Perhaps there might be just as much satisfaction by serving anyway...

Never said that it wasn't an honorable thing. You're trying to spark conflict where there is none, you must be American.

 

[jpeyton]

Bullsh!t. There is no denying that Saddam was in violation of the cease fire by alternately kicking out inspectors, then leading them on when he allowed them in. Not ONCE has he been in compliance with 1441 since the end of the first Gulf War.

As for the WMD argument, it falls flat when you realize that EVERY intelligence agency in the world thought he had them, and was trying to build more. Even those countries who opposed military action did NOT debate whether or not he had them, they debated what to do about it.

And it now turns out many of those opposed to military action were on the take, taking kickbacks from the oil for food program.

In short, you're full of sh!t.

Wow, you guys are sure good at shoveling Bush's sh1t for him.

If we declare unilateral pre-emptive action against a country without UN authorization, why bother citing that country's compliance with UN resolutions? Seems silly to me.

On the same note, if it's suddenly okay to overthrow a country that's raping it's own people, why aren't we in Sudan or North Korea? We didn't need UN authorization to go to Iraq; we didn't need solid proof they had WMD; we didn't need solid proof they were an immediate threat........those other countries are like Iraq all over again.

Quit being the intelligence community and Bush administration's choir boy. Almost 1000 US soldiers killed. Over 6000 US soldiers wounded (maimed, blinded, ruined for life).

Let's pretend for a second that the Bush administration truly didn't lie or exaggerate, and they were really confident in the intelligence they recieved. I'd still view the mistake as worty of termination of their jobs. If the US government were a corporation, the board of directors would be calling for resignation papers from the CEO right now.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
WTF are you talking about? No matter how hard the anti-war folks try, they cannot get away with rewriting history just a year or so after the fact.

The fact is, the debate within the UN was NOT whether or not he had them, not even with France, Germany, Russia and Belgium. The entire debate was what to do about it. ALL of those countries maintained that he had WMDs and was attempting to buy/build more. In fact, before the war, not a single major intelligence agency or their government made the claim that he didn;t have WMDs.

It takes just a bit of common sense and the facts to blow away the "bush lied and/or exaggerated" claims. The fact of the matter is, Blix and those who came before him could not go where they wanted, when they wanted, and the Iraqi government had prior notice of when they would be where. THIS was all part of Saddam's violations of 1441 and the resaon why ANY of this came up in the first place.

Keep trying to rewrite hisory, though. If you fib long enough, some people may even believe you.

Common sense will tell you that there was no hurry to rush to war with Iraq. We still need to finish the war against terror and Iraq was not part of that war until we invaded and occupied it. They, unlike Iran, we not actively involved with Al Qaeda.

We didn't rush to war. We took 12 years and multiple violations before we did. WMD wasn't the only reason we went to war. Saddam is an evil person and needed to be removed. So did Hitler but we sat back because it "wasn't our problem" while 6 million people were killed. Oh, and we lost more people on D-Day than we have during this entire war. It's a good thing we didn't wait until Saddam got where Hitler did.


Edit: By the way, I'm not a huge fan of Bush. But for National security he's better than the alternative. We're doing the right thing.


I want Reagan back.

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: brigden

Originally posted by: jyates

Originally posted by: brigden
Why are American efforts being spent waging war on a country that posed little danger to the American public and international community?


Why not focus on wiping out Al Qaeda?

Do you happen to have their current address?

No, but maybe they're hiding with the WMD's in Iraq.

Apparently there are no WMD's, so if we are supposed to wipe
out Al Qaeda where do you suggest we start?

Or since there are apparently no WMD's are you saying there is no
Al Qaeda?

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Let's pretend for a second that the Bush administration truly didn't lie or exaggerate, and they were really confident in the intelligence they recieved. I'd still view the mistake as worty of termination of their jobs. If the US government were a corporation, the board of directors would be calling for resignation papers from the CEO right now.

Pretending is what the liberals do best

And just in case you weren't aware of it, there is a big difference between
the corporate world and government.

 

[imported_smilingcrow]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I'm so upset and disturbed right now I can barely speak or type.

A few moments ago I passed by several dozen wounded soldiers missing arms, missing legs. These men are recently recovered from Iraq. I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.
-Max

I admire you for sharing your compassion with us, but I feel you are a little naïve.
These men were pawns in a political game and they CHOSE to enrol with the armed forces. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. In their case they didn?t pay the ultimate price, but the saying is still apt.

I?m with the Buddhists on war. You can?t bomb your way to peace. Violence leads to more violence, even if you can create the temporary surface illusion of peace through its means. It doesn?t last though.

At the end of the day, all soldiers are simply mercenaries. They get paid to kill people that their ?oh so wise? political leaders tell them to. If you enrol in the US forces during the period that George Bush is president, then you should almost expect to kill some innocent people. If you hadn?t deduced that, then you?re either a blood hungry psycho and couldn?t give a sh%t, an idiot or possibly both.

I?m happy to kill someone in self defence, but invading Afghanistan and Iraq post 09/11 hardly counts as self defence in my book. America is gonna have to go on creating more half assed, one limbed heroes, until it wises up and stops fuck^n? the world over. You reap what you sow.

The people I admire are the pacifists who refuse to be drafted into some phoney war, such as Vietnam. That can be very a difficult position to take, as many people will simply brand you a coward. I?d prefer to be a conscientious objector and killed by my own government, than be killed fighting a BS war.

So, some idiots lost a few limbs and you come over all touchy feely. Get real dude. America fukced up bad , again, business as usual. Maybe that?s why you?re really crying. You realise that your own country is the actual problem here. Now that?s really scary.

YES, I have had a bad fukcing day. I just need to blow off some steam, before I go out and do something really stupid, like register for the armed forces.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
WTF was the big hurry to take care of Iraq, they weren't a threat. I'll tell you what the big hurry was. The Dub and his band of Nefarious Neocons saw an opportunity that may not come again and that was the aftermath of 9/11 and the Shock and Horror that was still reverberating around this nation. Thery knew that if they presented it right they could dupe the American People into supporting the Dub's excellent adventure there. So they BS'd us with tales of an Advanced Nuclear weapons Program, Misled us about Alleged ties between Al Qaeda and Hussien (who was on Bin Laden's sh!tlist for having a Secular Government) and marched poor old Colin Powell out with fabricated Charts and Diagrams of where these so called WMD's were being stored and Manufactured. It was the biggest snowjob pulled om Americans since the BS Gulf of Tonkin Lie!

Jr was just cleaning up where Senior left off

You are saying that an Iraqi civilian life is incosequential?

Had the UN ever had a backbone, they woulf have let Senior finish the job.

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: broonYou aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

then let them be offended. I would rather have them offended and home safe rather than getting blown up by RPGs every other day. I don't value what they're doing in Iraq.

People like you are also fueling the fire for the remainder of the Iraqi resistance. They figure that if they create enough of you tree huggers who hate the war our administration will turn tail and run as it always has in the past...Vietnam and Somalia for starters. The death and dismemberment of all the non-civilians and civilians that are captured and beheaded or dragged through the street like garbage is on your head. If you are too blind to see that then I feel sorry for you.

Yes, the war was started under false pretenses, but that does not change the fact that Iraqi civilians were being slaughtered like cattles because they had a differing opinion. Yes other countries are doing it as well.....Your point is??? We can not be everywhere at everytime. We have to pick and choose our battles. Iraq was obvious because it is sitting on one of the largest oil revenues. You ask about Africa...Why not ask all those countries that are exploiting the diamond trade and thus fueling the country with money to buy guns. I'm sorry but the millions that are dieing in Africa are all on those fvckers at DeBeers and anyone who buys a DeBeers rock.

There would be less "heroes" that hid behind guns murdering and raping if you were to remove these POS countries that are using and abusing them by supplying the bad guys with weapons and money to buy weapons. So technically those ftards in Switzerland who hide behind neutrality and allow criminals to hide money are the real culprits behind the millions of deaths in Africa. How do you like them apples?

 

[Special1Sauce]

Chill out guys.

We are talking about Soldiers and their Sacrifices not damn politics

 

[CVHome]

Sigh.. this thread just shows how fvcking clueless the average american public really is...
blinded by pure political hate.

we dont Enlist blindly.. we enlist because we love the US of A... and we love the democratic way of life and we are the type of people that get tears in our eye when we see our flag outa pure pride...
We fight for what we beleive in... we beleive in Democracy and a better way of life for all..
As well as defending the innocents that cannot protect themselves..

believe it or not i dont care what you have or havent read.. but its time to dig into some past headlines..
Saddam and Al Queida were linked... he was harboring terrorists in his country.. Saddam had been quoted of deep hatered and loathing for America and had vowed revenge agaisnt us for ousting him from Kuwait..
they found ties to him and Al queda.. and that is why he became a priority again as they had evidence that he had WMDs and was planning on using them against the US..
this is the war on terror.. just as much as the US and Canadian Soldiers in Afganistan who are fighting Al Queida and the Taliban where Bin ladens forces are mainly rumoured to be..

If you had been payign attention we have captured several high ranking Al Queda officals in Iraq with the other high level prisoners...
that has led to many other Al queda arrests around the world from the Info they have gotten from them...

as for Al Sadr he is an Iraqi cleric with strong ties to other countries as well as the old saddam regium.. he is listed as an International criminal and now has a US price on his head... he is leading a force of Foreign nationals and other renegade criminal Iraqi's that are bent on creating problems for the US.. they want saddam back so they can continue to commit genocide and harbor all the terrorsists they want... Also take not that these cowards have killed more INNOCENT IRAQIS in thier bombings than Coolition soldiers...
the pure unadulertaed ignorance from some of the members here is incredible..
I know this is a world wide board and lots of members are in fact from other countries.. some that support the coolition but others that are prolly from countries that hate the US.. but if you do live here and live under the freedom people like me have given you while looking at our mission as wasteful and selfish.. well shame on you...
we are brainwashed.. with love for our flag, country, and way of Life...
all that oppose us or threaten innocents around the world will pay one way or the other...

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: CVHome
Sigh.. this thread just shows how fvcking clueless the average american public really is...
blinded by pure political hate.

we dont Enlist blindly.. we enlist because we love the US of A... and we love the democratic way of life and we are the type of people that get tears in our eye when we see our flag outa pure pride...
We fight for what we beleive in... we beleive in Democracy and a better way of life for all..
As well as defending the innocents that cannot protect themselves..

believe it or not i dont care what you have or havent read.. but its time to dig into some past headlines..
Saddam and Al Queida were linked... he was harboring terrorists in his country.. Saddam had been quoted of deep hatered and loathing for America and had vowed revenge agaisnt us for ousting him from Kuwait..
they found ties to him and Al queda.. and that is why he became a priority again as they had evidence that he had WMDs and was planning on using them against the US..
this is the war on terror.. just as much as the US and Canadian Soldiers in Afganistan who are fighting Al Queida and the Taliban where Bin ladens forces are mainly rumoured to be..

If you had been payign attention we have captured several high ranking Al Queda officals in Iraq with the other high level prisoners...
that has led to many other Al queda arrests around the world from the Info they have gotten from them...

as for Al Sadr he is an Iraqi cleric with strong ties to other countries as well as the old saddam regium.. he is listed as an International criminal and now has a US price on his head... he is leading a force of Foreign nationals and other renegade criminal Iraqi's that are bent on creating problems for the US.. they want saddam back so they can continue to commit genocide and harbor all the terrorsists they want... Also take not that these cowards have killed more INNOCENT IRAQIS in thier bombings than Coolition soldiers...
the pure unadulertaed ignorance from some of the members here is incredible..
I know this is a world wide board and lots of members are in fact from other countries.. some that support the coolition but others that are prolly from countries that hate the US.. but if you do live here and live under the freedom people like me have given you while looking at our mission as wasteful and selfish.. well shame on you...
we are brainwashed.. with love for our flag, country, and way of Life...
all that oppose us or threaten innocents around the world will pay one way or the other...

Nice :thumbsup:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: broon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused
WTF are you talking about? No matter how hard the anti-war folks try, they cannot get away with rewriting history just a year or so after the fact.

The fact is, the debate within the UN was NOT whether or not he had them, not even with France, Germany, Russia and Belgium. The entire debate was what to do about it. ALL of those countries maintained that he had WMDs and was attempting to buy/build more. In fact, before the war, not a single major intelligence agency or their government made the claim that he didn;t have WMDs.

It takes just a bit of common sense and the facts to blow away the "bush lied and/or exaggerated" claims. The fact of the matter is, Blix and those who came before him could not go where they wanted, when they wanted, and the Iraqi government had prior notice of when they would be where. THIS was all part of Saddam's violations of 1441 and the resaon why ANY of this came up in the first place.

Keep trying to rewrite hisory, though. If you fib long enough, some people may even believe you.

Common sense will tell you that there was no hurry to rush to war with Iraq. We still need to finish the war against terror and Iraq was not part of that war until we invaded and occupied it. They, unlike Iran, we not actively involved with Al Qaeda.

We didn't rush to war. We took 12 years and multiple violations before we did. WMD wasn't the only reason we went to war. Saddam is an evil person and needed to be removed. So did Hitler but we sat back because it "wasn't our problem" while 6 million people were killed. Oh, and we lost more people on D-Day than we have during this entire war. It's a good thing we didn't wait until Saddam got where Hitler did.


Edit: By the way, I'm not a huge fan of Bush. But for National security he's better than the alternative. We're doing the right thing.


I want Reagan back.

Saddam and Hitler...wow...just wow.

Saddam was contained and crippled after the Gulf War. He was resigned to ruling his sand parking lot for the remainder of his life. He didn't believe in any religious or ethnic fanaticism (his crimes against the kurds were to quell their rebellion, not their race). His army was pathetic. Saddam and his military commanders knew that they couldn't hope to win any military conflict they started. We can say confidently now that he does not possess any WMD.

We beat his army decisively and quickly. But we fight daily with insurgency. That says something about how poorly we overestimated Saddams capabilities and underestimated the will of a country to be ruled.

 

[torpid]

People like you give us freedom from, and that is great. We sometimes have freedom to, but not for long. People like taking that one away.

 

[FiLeZz]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
Max, you sound like a great guy. here's hoping there are a lot more guys like you out there.
i agree with all you've said. i am eternally grateful for those who put their lives on the line for our country.

DITO

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Yossarian

Originally posted by: broonYou aren't supporting the troops by saying you don't support the war. It's offensive to them and tells them you don't value what they are doing.

then let them be offended. I would rather have them offended and home safe rather than getting blown up by RPGs every other day. I don't value what they're doing in Iraq.

People like you are also fueling the fire for the remainder of the Iraqi resistance. They figure that if they create enough of you tree huggers who hate the war our administration will turn tail and run as it always has in the past...Vietnam and Somalia for starters. The death and dismemberment of all the non-civilians and civilians that are captured and beheaded or dragged through the street like garbage is on your head. If you are too blind to see that then I feel sorry for you.

haha, on my head, ok. I think it's on the head of Bush & company. don't expect me to support some bullsh!t war just because my government thinks it's the right thing to do.

 

[broon]

Saddam and Hitler...wow...just wow.

Saddam was contained and crippled after the Gulf War. He was resigned to ruling his sand parking lot for the remainder of his life. He didn't believe in any religious or ethnic fanaticism (his crimes against the kurds were to quell their rebellion, not their race). His army was pathetic. Saddam and his military commanders knew that they couldn't hope to win any military conflict they started. We can say confidently now that he does not possess any WMD.

We beat his army decisively and quickly. But we fight daily with insurgency. That says something about how poorly we overestimated Saddams capabilities and underestimated the will of a country to be ruled.

I know they aren't alike in every way. BUT both were killing people for fun. Hitler would have tried to take over North America given the opportunity, Saddam admitted to wanting to destroy the US.

We can say confidently now that he does not possess any WMD.

He doesn't possess much of anything now. We made sure of it. We can't say confidently that he never did possess WMD. He did use chemicals on the Kurds. He was trying to purchace plutonium (British, French, German, Russian intelligence provided).

 

[Deadtrees]

Oh honey. I see that you're feeling bad because of the mess your president created.
Well, I'm from a country where we were 'forced' to send troops to Iriq because of Bush administration.
I mean, my country is known as one of the closest ally of U.S and U.S has helped my country. As I'd been a soldier, if America ever gets invaded by other nation, I wouldn't even doubt fighting for U.S.
However, the situation over Iriq is different. It's a filthy and un-needed war created by your government. For sure, U.S will gain so much in a short term, no doubt Bush and Neocons wanted to invade Iriq so bad. But U.S has so much to lose in a long term.
BTW, do you think France, German, and other countries should join the war U.S created so that they'll have their people getting killed? Hello?

Oh and I'm sure you're one of those people who thinks that Iriqes welcome U.S. Well, trust me honey,
they hate U.S more than they hated Hussein.

 

[Deadtrees]

What a moron!
What you're saying is basically...

"OMG I feel so bad that our soldiers are losing their body parts and getting killed there. This is so sad and bad I'm crying now. I think we can fix this problem by sending more soldiers as well as soldiers from other nations."

I think it's time for you to go there.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: CVHome
Sigh.. this thread just shows how fvcking clueless the average american public really is...
blinded by pure political hate.

we dont Enlist blindly.. we enlist because we love the US of A... and we love the democratic way of life and we are the type of people that get tears in our eye when we see our flag outa pure pride...
We fight for what we beleive in... we beleive in Democracy and a better way of life for all..
As well as defending the innocents that cannot protect themselves..

believe it or not i dont care what you have or havent read.. but its time to dig into some past headlines..
Saddam and Al Queida were linked... he was harboring terrorists in his country.. Saddam had been quoted of deep hatered and loathing for America and had vowed revenge agaisnt us for ousting him from Kuwait..
they found ties to him and Al queda.. and that is why he became a priority again as they had evidence that he had WMDs and was planning on using them against the US..
this is the war on terror.. just as much as the US and Canadian Soldiers in Afganistan who are fighting Al Queida and the Taliban where Bin ladens forces are mainly rumoured to be..

If you had been payign attention we have captured several high ranking Al Queda officals in Iraq with the other high level prisoners...
that has led to many other Al queda arrests around the world from the Info they have gotten from them...

as for Al Sadr he is an Iraqi cleric with strong ties to other countries as well as the old saddam regium.. he is listed as an International criminal and now has a US price on his head... he is leading a force of Foreign nationals and other renegade criminal Iraqi's that are bent on creating problems for the US.. they want saddam back so they can continue to commit genocide and harbor all the terrorsists they want... Also take not that these cowards have killed more INNOCENT IRAQIS in thier bombings than Coolition soldiers...
the pure unadulertaed ignorance from some of the members here is incredible..
I know this is a world wide board and lots of members are in fact from other countries.. some that support the coolition but others that are prolly from countries that hate the US.. but if you do live here and live under the freedom people like me have given you while looking at our mission as wasteful and selfish.. well shame on you...
we are brainwashed.. with love for our flag, country, and way of Life...
all that oppose us or threaten innocents around the world will pay one way or the other...

You are the ignorant fool, There is no proof that Saddam had ties with Al-Queda, plz tell me that you have some proof!

Do you know who Al Sadr is before you typed that ridiculous crap! The Sadr family is one of the most respected familes in Iraq, do you know why? dooh! I guess not! this family as a huge history of rebellion againts the the old regime. Al-Sadr is a son of the Grand Ayat Allah Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr, a prominent Iraqi Shia leader who many Iraqi fallow his doctrines and now they fallow the son. Al Sadr father was killed by Saddam because he refused to obey the rules of the regime, where did you get that information that "some of the old regime" are working with the mahdi army? from you're A$$?

You're saying they're killing innocent Iraqis, again nothing to back up what you said. Who's doing the bombing right now in Najaf, killing innocent civilians in the name "to crush the mahdi army"? the mahdi army right!

you know this just shows how fvcking clueless you are....

and what do you mean exactly by "those who oppose us"

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
Oh honey. I see that you're feeling bad because of the mess your president created.
Well, I'm from a country where we were 'forced' to send troops to Iriq because of Bush administration.
I mean, my country is known as one of the closest ally of U.S and U.S has helped my country. As I'd been a soldier, if America ever gets invaded by other nation, I wouldn't even doubt fighting for U.S.
However, the situation over Iriq is different. It's a filthy and un-needed war created by your government. For sure, U.S will gain so much in a short term, no doubt Bush and Neocons wanted to invade Iriq so bad. But U.S has so much to lose in a long term.
BTW, do you think France, German, and other countries should join the war U.S created so that they'll have their people getting killed? Hello?

Oh and I'm sure you're one of those people who thinks that Iriqes welcome U.S. Well, trust me honey,
they hate U.S more than they hated Hussein.

Dude... did you really call me "honey"?

Wow....

You know what.. I am absolutely amazed by your idiocy... it is baffling how you can truly be so stupid. Either that or you just failed outright to read my post. I'm frankly dissapointed with the way this thread turned out period. The point was... if we as human beings were as selfless as the young men I saw earlier today, then there wouldn't ever have been any of this. So you anti-american freaks go ahead sit on your couch, wash your hands of all responsibility... call our soldiers idiots... you make me sick... sick to my stomach... as far as I'm concerned you are the scum of the earth.

-Max

 

[bleeb]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Hah - it took a whole two minutes for some assclown to turn a nice message political. How typical.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I'm so upset and disturbed right now I can barely speak or type.

A few moments ago I passed by several dozen wounded soldiers missing arms, missing legs. These men are recently recovered from Iraq. I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.

And I am so angry at all of humanity for our absolute selfishness with which we look upon Iraq, and other conflicts throughout the world. So often we hear of Bush this, Haliburton that, cheney this. But why were we so selfish to allow that question to even exist. Why is everyone in the world looking this situation throwing their hands up in the air, and saying "not my problem"... why are we living our cushy little lives, driving our cushy little cars, drinking beer and relaxing while so many of our young men are giving their lives and limbs for the good of humanity. How is it that we allow places like Iraq, and people like Saddam to exist?... Isn't it time for us to stand together, and get this mess cleaned up?... Shouldn't france, and germany, and every other country in the world step up to the plate and say this is a HUMAN problem. Put their fvcking troops on the ground, put their money to work, and clean up our own human mess? If everyone was involved there could be no question of motives... no stealing of oil.... the world has the power to set the goals of the mission and ensure the success. Iraq should be humanities mission, not just the US. But we're all too selfish...

I am ashamed right now, ashamed that I walk on two legs, have the use of both arms, can see with both eyes. Compared to these men I am nothing... all I can do is sit here and cry quietly to myself... In utter awe of these men, I will forever feel indebted to them... I am grateful for my small support position where I can do just a little something to support these larger than life heroes.

-Max

Imagine how upset the families and relatives of the 10000+ Iraqis would be who have died in an unjust war brought upon them because of the greed of this current administration and the US government in general, greed of power, oil and wealth. Countless, an unknown figure have been wounded. Humiliation in Abu Gharib (and who knows where else) is on top of all this.

My question would be how do we have a President, in an elected body, still running the show when he obviously lied, misled and has caused the deaths of over a 1000 of our soldiers? If he DIDNT lie, then he's absolutely clueless. And if he was basing the intelligence from Clinton's era, both of them are idiots. And idiots should not be running this country.

Support the soldiers, no doubt. But realize they are not protecting our 'freedom' or 'liberating' a nation or making America any 'safer'. They are fighting this President's war, a war that has lost our respect in other nation's eyes, a war that has made us much less safer, a war that has caused untold economic damage, and the human cost (which we just put as a figure of 13000 or whatever) has been enormous.

edit: typos

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: desiplaya4life
oh this makes me a little ticky.. u are fu king wrong.. all the other countries are doing the right thing. MINDING THEIR OWN DAMN BUSINESS>. lol u and ur stupid soldiers u seen.. you guys just preach what the media tells you.. go in iraq and see for yourself.. we are doing no good to ourselves or iraq. U.S. is in their to make money.

Have you been to Iraq?

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Doboji
I'm so upset and disturbed right now I can barely speak or type.

A few moments ago I passed by several dozen wounded soldiers missing arms, missing legs. These men are recently recovered from Iraq. I am so disturbed and absolutely humbled by the sacrifice these men have made for the good of humanity.

And I am so angry at all of humanity for our absolute selfishness with which we look upon Iraq, and other conflicts throughout the world. So often we hear of Bush this, Haliburton that, cheney this. But why were we so selfish to allow that question to even exist. Why is everyone in the world looking this situation throwing their hands up in the air, and saying "not my problem"... why are we living our cushy little lives, driving our cushy little cars, drinking beer and relaxing while so many of our young men are giving their lives and limbs for the good of humanity. How is it that we allow places like Iraq, and people like Saddam to exist?... Isn't it time for us to stand together, and get this mess cleaned up?... Shouldn't france, and germany, and every other country in the world step up to the plate and say this is a HUMAN problem. Put their fvcking troops on the ground, put their money to work, and clean up our own human mess? If everyone was involved there could be no question of motives... no stealing of oil.... the world has the power to set the goals of the mission and ensure the success. Iraq should be humanities mission, not just the US. But we're all too selfish...

I am ashamed right now, ashamed that I walk on two legs, have the use of both arms, can see with both eyes. Compared to these men I am nothing... all I can do is sit here and cry quietly to myself... In utter awe of these men, I will forever feel indebted to them... I am grateful for my small support position where I can do just a little something to support these larger than life heroes.

-Max

I'm sorry, but those people CHOSE that life. They accepted the risks which came with the job. Some people are cut out to be conditioned and indoctrinated with military discipline, others are not. Some are cut out to be human killing machines. Those people are in the special forces, civilians are civilians for a reason. There is no reason for me to feel bad about "...living our cushy little lives, driving our cushy little cars, drinking beer and relaxing while so many of our young men are giving their lives and limbs for the good of humanity." While it's only natural to feel sorry for people who are maimed or injured, there is no reason to feel guilt for the lives that we live. It's almost as if you are suggesting we give up our beer, our cars, and relaxing - what impact will that have on the world and the majority of situations, which are for the most part, out of our control? If I don't drink beer tonight, am I in some way going to prevent some soldier from getting his legs blown off in Iraq? Please. Moreover, is it my fault that these soldiers are getting injured? No, it isn't - so stop beating yourself up over things which are a.) beyond the bulk of your control and b.) not your fault.

Secondly, with regard to the notion of 'selfishness' with regard to Iraq, I only have to say that the world has a limited number of resources with which to deal with its problems. France, Germany, and all the other nations who refuse to send their own troops have their own domestic problems and other issues which in their eyes, take top priority. Japan could care less about Iraq - they're worried about getting their heads blown off by North Korea, they're worried about political and social tensions with China and Korea, etc. Before you go lambasting foreign nations for their alleged 'selfishness,' take a good look and note that it is not the responsibility of first-world nations to police the world, nor is it the responsibility of first-world nations to provide economic relief to the rest of the world. If you're going to scream bloody murder at foreign nations for allowing people like Saddam Hussein to exist, know that the United States is equally guilty about not acting in similar circumstances, such as in Rwanda or like the thousands being killed in Sudan. As I've previously written, the idea of all the world's nations coming together and "fixing this human problem" is both a.) unfeasible, b.) logistically impossible, and c.) not a priority. Frankly, I would much rather the United States solve its domestic problems than go rampaging around the world trying to be the savior of the entire universe. It can't be done, and as our record shows, we don't do it with regularity (thankfully, because it would wreak havoc on our domestic affairs).

In conclusion, while your compassion for the soldiers returning home is admirable and I acknowledge that, your criticisms of international nations and your self-imposed guilt are completely unwarranted and in many ways, rather foolish. While you're at it, I should probably mention that somewhere out there, a husband is probably beating his wife, somebody is getting raped, and children are being molested. Do you suggest I feel guilty about posting on ATOT because these things are happening? I don't think you will.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Are you saying we go kill the people in Iraq? In wars people lose things arms/legs/lives. If you don't want to lose those things, you don't go to war. Just because our soldiers are losing limbs/lives in war doesn't mean that we should go back and do the same cause that kind of crap just goes back and forth. I think your pity for the soldiers is getting to you. I mean yea, I respect them and all but I'm not going to go to war with a country because they got hurt.