I knew it. Extroverts will get us all killed.Seeking out aliens probably not a good idea until Earth becoming inhospitable to our species ≠ extinction of humans. Even if we encounter aliens that aren't interested in destroying us or repopulating Earth/taking it's resources, it may take one Nigerian scam or a Kardashian event to lead them to a "fuck these bipeds" conclusion.
"Kepler studied 150,000 stars [...]"...which is actually quite a big number, and *in particular* of interest now since we now that virtually all stars have a planet system.
Looking at our tech, I think that detecting light changes/patterns is the currently only way that we can detect a distant alien civilization...so what are the chances that we study 150,000++ stars where each one likely has a planet system..... possibly some of those systems INDEED having a planet/planets with a high-tech civilization and then this civilization indeed having built structures which influence the light of this star? Far fetched? Likely? I think it's...likely.
What I do not think as being necessarily likely is that those structures serve the harvesting of energy. I am simply speculating that such a high-tech civilization has other means of creating energy, fusion, whatever...they don't need to build giant panels to "harvest solar power", this sounds...dated to me.
It is more likely that IF such structures exist they are like artificial planets...like, say, a civilization is outgrowing its planet...moving to another star system etc. maybe not a viable option...what do you do...you built artificial satellite/planets where people would live.
Question: Could we just from observing those light patterns determine whether they are artificial or natural? That they're "entirely random" I cannot understand. Even a field of broken debris..shouldn't it at some point show some sort of repeatable pattern?
Light is too damn slow so we need FIOS?One thing to keep in mind, the deeper we look into space (with current tech) the more outdated the image we see. The lifeless planet we observe now may have evolved further than we did in "real time". If we do detect evidence of intelligent life, news headlines should read "there was life on planet xyz" rather than "aliens waving at us" as the news will likely report. Light is too damn slow for deep space observations, we need a FIOS like medium to carry images for most of the trip before passing it down to 56k-like light.
"Kepler studied 150,000 stars [...]"...which is actually quite a big number, and *in particular* of interest now since we now that virtually all stars have a planet system.
Looking at our tech, I think that detecting light changes/patterns is the currently only way that we can detect a distant alien civilization...so what are the chances that we study 150,000++ stars where each one likely has a planet system..... possibly some of those systems INDEED having a planet/planets with a high-tech civilization and then this civilization indeed having built structures which influence the light of this star? Far fetched? Likely? I think it's...likely.
What I do not think as being necessarily likely is that those structures serve the harvesting of energy. I am simply speculating that such a high-tech civilization has other means of creating energy, fusion, whatever...they don't need to build giant panels to "harvest solar power", this sounds...dated to me.
It is more likely that IF such structures exist they are like artificial planets...like, say, a civilization is outgrowing its planet...moving to another star system etc. maybe not a viable option...what do you do...you built artificial satellite/planets where people would live.
Question: Could we just from observing those light patterns determine whether they are artificial or natural? That they're "entirely random" I cannot understand. Even a field of broken debris..shouldn't it at some point show some sort of repeatable pattern?
One thing to keep in mind, the deeper we look into space (with current tech) the more outdated the image we see. The lifeless planet we observe now may have evolved further than we did in "real time". If we do detect evidence of intelligent life, news headlines should read "there was life on planet xyz" rather than "aliens waving at us" as the news will likely report. Light is too damn slow for deep space observations, we need a FIOS like medium to carry images for most of the trip before passing it down to 56k-like light.
Light is too damn slow so we need FIOS?
lol, science.
Keep in mind this system is 1500 light years away so are only seeing it 1500 years ago. If there was life there odds are it's still there. If there wasn't life it's probably not there still.
Your talking about looking at planets millions of years ago which would put the stars out of our galaxy and beyond what Kepler could actually measure.
Ok. I was considering physics which says that nothing travels faster than the speed of light, so bandwidth really isn't much of a consideration in this case.I was comparing light to a 56k connection, a equivalent of FIOS would be needed to see "current" images.
Indeed.One of us might be quoted in year 3065 and labeled as a shortsighted idiot, probably me :hmm:
FIber Over SubspaceLight is too damn slow so we need FIOS?
lol, science.
Ok. I was considering physics which says that nothing travels faster than the speed of light, so bandwidth really isn't much of a consideration in this case.
Indeed.
One thing to keep in mind, the deeper we look into space (with current tech) the more outdated the image we see. The lifeless planet we observe now may have evolved further than we did in "real time". If we do detect evidence of intelligent life, news headlines should read "there was life on planet xyz" rather than "aliens waving at us" as the news will likely report. Light is too damn slow for deep space observations, we need a FIOS like medium to carry images for most of the trip before passing it down to 56k-like light.
I could have phrased it better but didn't want to resort to star trek terminology.
Faster than light is improbable now but if humans are around long enough that may change.
FIber Over Subspace
Wikepedia said:The Alcubierre drive or Alcubierre warp drive (or Alcubierre metric, referring to metric tensor) is a speculative idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre, by which a spacecraft could achieve faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (that is, negative mass) could be created.
Rather than exceeding the speed of light within a local reference frame, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind it, resulting in effective faster-than-light travel. Objects cannot accelerate to the speed of light within normal spacetime; instead, the Alcubierre drive shifts space around an object so that the object would arrive at its destination faster than light would in normal space.[1]
Although the metric proposed by Alcubierre is mathematically valid (in that the proposal is consistent with the Einstein field equations), it may not be physically meaningful, in which case a drive will not be possible. Even if it is physically meaningful, its mere existence does not necessarily mean that a drive can be constructed. The proposed mechanism of the Alcubierre drive implies a negative energy density and therefore requires exotic matter. So if exotic matter with the correct properties does not exist then the drive could not be constructed. However, at the close of his original paper[2] Alcubierre argued (following an argument developed by physicists analyzing traversable wormholes[3][4]) that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement for the Alcubierre drive...
Wikepedia said:In 2012, a NASA laboratory announced that they have constructed an interferometer that they claim will detect the spatial distortions produced by the expanding and contracting spacetime of the Alcubierre metric. The work has been described in Warp Field Mechanics 101, a NASA paper by Harold Sonny White.[5][6] Alcubierre has expressed skepticism about the experiment, saying "from my understanding there is no way it can be done, probably not for centuries if at all".
In 2013, The Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) a federally funded research and development center and NASA field center published results of a 19.6-second warp field from early Alcubierre-drive tests under vacuum conditions.[32] Results have been reported as "inconclusive".[33]...
White Juday Warp Field Interferometer.
The White–Juday warp-field interferometer is a space warping experiment to detect a microscopic instance of a warping of spacetime with the intent of creating an Alcubierre warp bubble, if possible. A research team led by Harold "Sonny" White in collaboration with Dr. Richard Juday [1] at the NASA Johnson Space Center and Dakota State University are conducting experiments but results so far have been inconclusive. An additional experiment with an EmDrive is showing interesting results.....
They never implied that alien megastructures harnessing the power from stars would all endeavor to completely engulf the star. Think of the halo (ring world) from the Halo series.A minute ago I didn't even know about KIC 8462852. Now I absolutely have to know what's floating around it. Doesn't matter if it's aliens or not. Anything that big has got to be crazy looking.
So let's say it's aliens building a collection of solar panels around their sun. At 1500 light years away they probably finished it some time ago right? One way to test the theory would be to make follow up observations over a very long period of time, say the next few hundred years, to see if the amount of blockage increases over time. It doesn't exactly prove anything. They may already be done building, or have died out, or an increase could be explainable by natural phenomena. It would still be suggestive though.
Yes, but we have no idea what we're really looking at, only that light is being blocked. It's probably not aliens, and if it is then our distant descendants may well be fucked because those guys were building orbital megastructures when the Byzantines were dicking around with greek fire. What will probably happen is that a bunch of astronomers will research it and within a couple decades at least one of them will write an interesting paper on it.
I wonder if something like an FTL drive could be done by throwing gobs of energy into different exotic types of materials that may distort spacetime.
Like LHC levels of energy. Hmm. Only harnessing nuclear energy in some form would be good enough. Much more so than we have now.
The type of energy would also matter. Electrical? Chemical?
We should research "extreme" sciences. First step... energy!
There is at least one theoretical idea for faster than light travel that is actually consistent with relativity.
Miguel Alcubierre's Warp Drive.
NASA has done a few small scale tests which are so far inconclusive.
We should research "extreme" sciences. First step... energy!
The big problem with that drive is it depends on "exotic matter", which is matter that has zero point energy lower than that of space. If we could find that, it would also make a lot of other technology available- mainly antigravity and mass-negating fields.
So far, we have no idea if the stuff exists.
However, at the close of his original paper[2] Alcubierre argued (following an argument developed by physicists analyzing traversable wormholes[3][4]) that the Casimir vacuum between parallel plates could fulfill the negative-energy requirement for the Alcubierre drive..
A research team led by Harold "Sonny" White in collaboration with Dr. collaboration with Dr. Richard Juday [1] at the NASA Johnson Space Center and Dakota State University are conducting experiments but results so far have been inconclusive. An additional experiment with an EmDrive is showing interesting results.....
"There is at least one theoretical idea for faster than light travel that is actually consistent with relativity."
Yes there is and I personally *believe* this is possible.