I'm not using a sound card...

[wpenhall]

Howdy,

I just built a new rig based on a 3400+ Newcastle, 1 GB Corsair value select, and the Soltek SL-K8AN2E-GR NFORCE3 250 mobo with AC'97 audio.

My speaker set-up consists of two, 2-channel systems so I'm using the front l/r and rear l/r analog outputs. My older comp has a Soundblaster Live! 5.1 card which I could put in this machine, but I'm not sure that's really necessary - especially since it seems that the more modern games are using CPU-based audio decoding.

The Realtek speaker test gives me discrete 4.0, but I don't think Doom 3 does. (I know all the cool kids are playing HL2, but I'm forcing myself to finish D3 before joining that club...) D3 sounds decent, but I don't think I'm really getting 4.0. It's hard to tell, but I think the rears are just mimicking the fronts. Plus, when I try to enable surrounds on the D3 settings screen, I get a "surrounds not detected" error.

So - would my SB Live! 5.1 give me true 4.0 with the analog outs? Would it be worth it to upgrade to an Audigy? What am I really missing out on by using on-board audio?

Thanks!

 

[Triforceofcourage]

sound

 

[Megatomic]

I just upgraded to a similar system (same mobo, 3400+ Clawhammer) and I am not satisfied with the onboard sound. I lost SS in this upgrade so I am buying an A2 ZS Gamer. Realtek AC'97 is horrible.

Sorry Aureal.

 

[w00t]

I would buy some headphones they are better for gaming i use dsp500's. There is some new senhiser 155 that are the best out right now they, also have a mic. here is another good headphone set i like is the zalman 5.1 surround sound headset you will need sound cards for both of these. On the other hand if u dont want to buy a sound card get some dsp500 built in sound card is plugs right in the usb. my friend has audio 90's with an audigy 2 and my sound is better.
newegg has audio 90's, dsp500, and i belive the zalman headphones you can also purchase a mic for the zalman headphones seprate

 

[wpenhall]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Tri - har.

Megatomic - what do you mean by "horrible"? Sound quality? Features?

w00t - I have a nice pair of Sony VX900 headphones. I gamed with them for a couple hours the other night and although they sounded good, I have to say that I just wasn't immersed like I am with real speakers playing loudly! Even though my surrounds are really just mimicking my fronts, it's still pretty cool to really hear stuff behind me!

It's not that I don't WANT to buy a soundcard... I'm just wondering what difference will it really make? Am I missing out on processing effects like EAX? Do you really need a soundcard to get the most out of HL2 and D3?

 

[gobucks]

When you listen to stuff on your AC'97 audio, does it sound worse than the SB Live? From what I've heard, they are pretty equivalent in quality. If it sounds fine to you, then you will likely not be really impressed by an Audigy 2, so I'd save your money. Audigy 2 does have some nice features, particularly the platinum, but they are mostly for real audiophiles, they aren't gonna make a big difference in how your PC speakers sound. Personally, if the current sound is fine, then just let it go. Creative is working on completely new line of soundcards called "Zenith," to be released within H1 2005, so if you can deal with the AC'97 audio till then, these new cards might provide a much more compelling reason to upgrade.

By the way, you are correct in saying that newer games, like HL2 and Doom3, are starting to have their own software sound programs, which means that getting by without a stand-alone sound cards. Many people are even theorizing that stand-alone sound cards will begin disappearing altogether over the next few years, as CPUs become fast enough to handle this simple task without much of a hit to performance, especially as more games create their own software algorythms for handling the audio.

 

[Megatomic]

What I meant by horrible is yes to both. As far as quality goes, it is muddy and very unlifelike. And don't get me started on features. I miss Soundstorm a lot.

 

[wpenhall]

Hi gobucks,

Thanks for the extremely useful answer! Have a :beer: on me. I have to say, I haven't noticed a significant loss in quality by not installing the SB. I do my real music listening on my dedicated a/v system, so computer audio doesn't really have to do anything fancy for me. My comp doesn't sound nearly as good as my home theater, but I'm fine with that. I just need to play some games sometimes, and listen to mp3's in the background. That said, a line-in would be nice (can I use the mic input for this?)...

The thing I really wasn't sure of is whether I'm missing out on audio effects like EAX or whatever the latest and greatest is.

Any theories on why I can't get discrete 4-channel audio in D3? Is it either/or: 2.0 OR 5.1 - with nothing in between?

Thanks again!

 

[Viper96720]

I got a 4.1 setup I use the 5.1 option for D3. Sound comes from both fronts for the center.

 

[LordPhoenix]

Rofl.

I also use Onboard. Fine with my Labtec Elite 835 HP's though.

 

[wpenhall]

Originally posted by: Viper96720
I got a 4.1 setup I use the 5.1 option for D3. Sound comes from both fronts for the center.

Are you using analog outputs? Do you get discrete surrounds?

 

[CraigRT]

2 channel for life.... heh

 

[GnomeCop]

went back to 2.1 after using 4.1 and 5.1 setups from klipsch and midiland. Just didn't want to bother with the wire mess.

the onboard sounds is OK for temporary use, but if you are going to be using more than 2 speakers, i'd pick up and inexpensive soundblaster or soemthing.

 

[Sideswipe001]

I'm surprised at people who say they can't tell the difference. I noticed a huge difference when I installed my Audigy2 (that was upgrading from SoundStorm). It made all the sounds in game much clearer, and I could hear sounds that I previously couldn't hear at all.

Using the old Live! 5.1 probably won't make a large difference, though; EAX is most likely not supported by your onboard sound however. I think you would be able to tell a difference.

 

[bomax]

Think you could tell a difference when listening to MP3s?

 

[jterrell]

IMHO, It depends on your speakers.
If you have speakers under 100 bucks it is silly to buy a sound card.
Thats like riding a Vette on flats.

A lot of gamers really get into sound but the new generation really is built on using headphones with built in mics and team speak.
If you already have a stereo system then I'd say just stick with your mobo's sound unless it is a big issue for you and if it is spend some money on some nice speakers from Klipsch.

 

[Toro 45]

If you have to ask, then your not missing out on anything. I'm back to using 2.1 with onboard sound, for the same reason as GnomeCop(wire mess) that and my desk was to crowded. I really havn't missed anything, as long as I have 2 good speakers and a solid sub I'm happy.

 

[biostud]

SB live > AC'97 onboard

 

[wpenhall]

Thanks for the input, everyone. My fronts are the logi z-2200 2.1 system, and my rears consist of an Onkyo stereo receiver (the classic TX-8511) with Cerwin Vega AT-8s. It certainly doesn't sound as good as my home theater (Sony ES components, Definitive Technology speakers), but it's enough to make me jump in D3 when an Imp spawns. I agree that this setup is completely inadequate for critical listening, but I have to say that MP3's sound good enough for casual listening. At least not bad enough to justify an upgrade.

Again, my main worry was missing sounds due to a lack of EAX or whatever. 3D Mark05 system details says, however, that my AC'97 DOES support EAX, although not HD. So the only thing I'm really missing from my SB is a separate line in. I haven't tried it yet, but I suspect the mic in won't work very well for that? Anyway, if I can't use the mic in as line in, I'm probably going to end up installing the SB anyway.

Thanks again for the inputs!

 

[calyco]

Currently I have the logitech z3 with onboard audio from my nforce2 mobo, from what I remember SB Live will probably not make that much of a difference for you. I am also in the same position as ya where I already have a dedicated audio system so thats why I leave my pc audio at the low end, like GnomeCop said I would not upgrade the soundcard unless you have more than a 2.1 setup.

 

[HappyCracker]

I have used two Abit boards (one nForce 2, the other Via KT400) and a Gigabyte 8KNXP. All have pretty decent sound. Granted my stereo still sounds better, but the computers do just fine for me. I have also used a Biostar (hoopty POS model) and it sounded like the music was coming from a tin can (same headphones as I used before (Sony MDR-7509)), so I think it's all in how the manufacturer implements the onboard sound. I haven't and won't take the time to delve into why the Biostar sucked and the Abit KT400 was decent (same 686C southbridge) (although now that I think of it, one may have been a lower cost southbridge(?) butLinux used the same kernel diver for it. Maybe one of these days I'll pop my Montego II card in and see if I can tell the difference (one of the few that has hardware mixing in Linux) between it and the onboard sound.