I'm taking a stand!

[Canun]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't go to bars where smoking is allowed, but it's ridiculous that they made it illegal. If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place, it should be his choice.

That makes entirely too much sense, thus the reason we must legislate it!

Tell that to the employees.

And OP - you're only taking half a stand. You should report them.

If they don't like smoke, then they shouldn't work in a place that allows smoking. How hard is that to understand.

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

BS. People have a choice where they want to work. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment, then they should apply at places that don't allow smoking. They can't find a waitressing job in a non-smoking place, then find a new career.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: OdiN
Smokers should have to wear a special suit which keeps all of their smoke just in their little enclosure. That way non-smokers don't have to breathe their crap.

And this goes for smokers in cars too. They should have to keep their windows rolled up.

As long as people that use perfume/cologne have to wear the same suit.

I wouldn't have a problem with that.

And you, because you smell of elderberries.

At least my mother wasn't a hamster.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
You see, it's people like you that will make future bar owners realize that anti-smoking bars can be equally profitable without moral legislature against a group of people.

http://www.slcbars.com/by_type/non_smoking_bars.php

http://www.barflymag.com/features/NS.html

Non-smoking bars do quite well without a ban. Smokers and non-smokers can both be happy!

As a non-smoker, I would be more than happy to go to the non-smoking bars.

Fuck that. Keep the laws banning smoking. I hate going to restaurants when I'm out of state because of all the smokers. Most people don't smoke and don't want to go to places that people smoke in. Majority rules.

The majority of people in the US are Christian, I suppose we should go ahead and make that the official US religion.

Being Christian doesn't kill people.

You said yourself majority rules, suck it up and bend your knee!

Never heard of separation of church and state?

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
the whole province here is smoke-free. you can only smoke in designated areas and certainly not in bars / restaurants.

i bet the gov't is kicking themselves now though, since their casino revenues are being lost to Americans that refuse to visit casinos that don't allow smoking. they should have made an exception with casinos. no one wants to gamble without a ciggy!

I don't go to casinos because they DO allow smoking.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
the whole province here is smoke-free. you can only smoke in designated areas and certainly not in bars / restaurants.

i bet the gov't is kicking themselves now though, since their casino revenues are being lost to Americans that refuse to visit casinos that don't allow smoking. they should have made an exception with casinos. no one wants to gamble without a ciggy!

It's funny, the Indian gaming casinos here allow smoking which is part of the reason I don't go there...well, that and I'm not a degenerate gambler.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

If you look at the ratio of available jobs throughout the entire US where smoking is not permitted inside the facility as opposed to the jobs where it is permitted then you will quickly realize that this is not an issue. Avoiding this problem is ridiculously easy.

You forgot to include the skill level / career sector of the employee. Not all restaurant/bar service employees can get jobs in these other sectors or get equal pay.

Name a single position in the restaurant/bar service which would not qualify them for jobs in a non-smoking environment elsewhere which are not very plentiful?

Waiters, waitresses, bar tenders, cooks, restaurant managers, bookkeepers, etc

There are so many jobs out there that these people qualify for which offers equal pay. The individuals where this really proves to be an issue are very few and far between and even then they have options. They can move to an area where it is not an issue to find that kind of employment just like those of us in particular industries that are not widely available everywhere do. They can spend some free time through the use of self study or perhaps even online college course to become qualified for another profession that allows them to be away from smokers if it really means that much to them. The point is that they do not need to the government to hold their hands in this case. If they are unhappy then they need to work hard to make a better life for themselves just like everyone else does.

 

[Canun]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: meltdown75
the whole province here is smoke-free. you can only smoke in designated areas and certainly not in bars / restaurants.

i bet the gov't is kicking themselves now though, since their casino revenues are being lost to Americans that refuse to visit casinos that don't allow smoking. they should have made an exception with casinos. no one wants to gamble without a ciggy!

I don't go to casinos because they DO allow smoking.

And that is a choice you made. Casinos lost your business due to allowing smoking, and if enough people make that choice they will change. I don't think it should be legislated, but made as a pure business decision.

 

[Tobolo]

It's illegal to smoke in a public place in GA too, but it is allowed in bars that no one under 18 can be admitted.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't go to bars where smoking is allowed, but it's ridiculous that they made it illegal. If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place, it should be his choice.

That makes entirely too much sense, thus the reason we must legislate it!

Tell that to the employees.

And OP - you're only taking half a stand. You should report them.

If they don't like smoke, then they shouldn't work in a place that allows smoking. How hard is that to understand.

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

BS. People have a choice where they want to work. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment, then they should apply at places that don't allow smoking. They can't find a waitressing job in a non-smoking place, then find a new career.

Why? Employees have rights. If you don't like it, sell your business and move to a state/city that allows smoking.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
You see, it's people like you that will make future bar owners realize that anti-smoking bars can be equally profitable without moral legislature against a group of people.

http://www.slcbars.com/by_type/non_smoking_bars.php

http://www.barflymag.com/features/NS.html

Non-smoking bars do quite well without a ban. Smokers and non-smokers can both be happy!

As a non-smoker, I would be more than happy to go to the non-smoking bars.

Fuck that. Keep the laws banning smoking. I hate going to restaurants when I'm out of state because of all the smokers. Most people don't smoke and don't want to go to places that people smoke in. Majority rules.

The majority of people in the US are Christian, I suppose we should go ahead and make that the official US religion.

Being Christian doesn't kill people.

You said yourself majority rules, suck it up and bend your knee!

Well, there's the whole constitutional thing with religion though. Although, the Bush administration is doing it's best to undo the constitution.

 

[Canun]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't go to bars where smoking is allowed, but it's ridiculous that they made it illegal. If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place, it should be his choice.

That makes entirely too much sense, thus the reason we must legislate it!

Tell that to the employees.

And OP - you're only taking half a stand. You should report them.

If they don't like smoke, then they shouldn't work in a place that allows smoking. How hard is that to understand.

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

BS. People have a choice where they want to work. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment, then they should apply at places that don't allow smoking. They can't find a waitressing job in a non-smoking place, then find a new career.

Why? Employees have rights. If you don't like it, sell your business and move to a state/city that allows smoking.

Wow, that makes no sense at all. What right is being violated? The employee has the right to work somewhere else, while the business has the right to run things the way they want. Additionally, you are suggesting business owners shut their doors and move out of your state? Overreact much?

 

[JulesMaximus]

I love smoking threads. Can we start a thread on abortion, religion, helmet laws and seatbelt laws too? Any other hot button topics I'm forgetting here? :laugh:

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: meltdown75
the whole province here is smoke-free. you can only smoke in designated areas and certainly not in bars / restaurants.

i bet the gov't is kicking themselves now though, since their casino revenues are being lost to Americans that refuse to visit casinos that don't allow smoking. they should have made an exception with casinos. no one wants to gamble without a ciggy!

I don't go to casinos because they DO allow smoking.

you're sure your primary reason isn't because they suck?

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love smoking threads. Can we start a thread on abortion, religion, helmet laws and seatbelt laws too? Any other hot button topics I'm forgetting here? :laugh:

bussing poor kids into rich neighbourhoods, and not allowing poor people to breed.

 

[txrandom]

Smoking never bothered me. Most restaurant in my area seem like they are phasing out smoking, but it's not a big deal anyways.

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love smoking threads. Can we start a thread on abortion, religion, helmet laws and seatbelt laws too? Any other hot button topics I'm forgetting here? :laugh:

We haven't had a good piracy thread in a while.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't go to bars where smoking is allowed, but it's ridiculous that they made it illegal. If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place, it should be his choice.

That makes entirely too much sense, thus the reason we must legislate it!

Tell that to the employees.

And OP - you're only taking half a stand. You should report them.

If they don't like smoke, then they shouldn't work in a place that allows smoking. How hard is that to understand.

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

BS. People have a choice where they want to work. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment, then they should apply at places that don't allow smoking. They can't find a waitressing job in a non-smoking place, then find a new career.

Why? Employees have rights. If you don't like it, sell your business and move to a state/city that allows smoking.

Their right is to look for a bar that doesn't allow smoking. Let's say I'm allergic to peanuts. Should I have the right to ask for legislation to ban people from eating peanut related items at the office? There's potential for death if I were to consume it in any way right? So fuck that I'm going to call my congressmen right now.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Xavier434
What blows my mind is how the Californians that support these kinds of laws completely fail to realize that the only reason it seems ok is because it favors themselves rather than favoring the freedom of the community. Thinking that way feels all hunky dory until they start passing laws which make your life just that much more inconvenient and unhappy. In the end, the laws are not the true problem. The belief that those kinds of laws which micro manage freedoms of that nature should even be considered up for discussion is the real issue.

Well, they tell me I must wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle and that I must buckle my seatbelt when I drive my car too. I have no problem with those laws either.

I'm glad that there is one less thing for you to complain about I guess? I really don't know what else to say about that. The point of the post you quoted was to make one think about how they would feel if laws existed which take away freedoms that you would have an issue which are easily controllable by the general public without the law in the first place. Placing very strict laws on how healthy food must be in order to serve it to the public is a good example. Do you enjoy steak houses? Chinese food restaurants? Mexican? Places like TGI Fridays or Chilies? How would you feel if laws were put into place where all of these restaurants and other like them had to completely change their menus around and you could not find food being sold like it anywhere else either? After that, you need to ask yourself this question, "Would life if America really be that much better if we allowed our government the power to take away those freedoms?" If the food thing is not where the line is drawn for you then where is that line drawn? Certainly there must be a limit to what you would deem acceptable too. Maybe after you realize that you will have a better understanding of how people like me feel about this sort of subject.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: M0oG0oGaiPan

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Canun

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: kranky
I don't go to bars where smoking is allowed, but it's ridiculous that they made it illegal. If a business owner wants to allow smoking in his place, it should be his choice.

That makes entirely too much sense, thus the reason we must legislate it!

Tell that to the employees.

And OP - you're only taking half a stand. You should report them.

If they don't like smoke, then they shouldn't work in a place that allows smoking. How hard is that to understand.

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

BS. People have a choice where they want to work. If they don't want to work in a smoking environment, then they should apply at places that don't allow smoking. They can't find a waitressing job in a non-smoking place, then find a new career.

Why? Employees have rights. If you don't like it, sell your business and move to a state/city that allows smoking.

Their right is to look for a bar that doesn't allow smoking. Let's say I'm allergic to peanuts. Should I have the right to ask for legislation to ban people from eating peanut related items at the office? There's potential for death if I were to consume it in any way right? So fuck that I'm going to call my congressmen right now.

And when there isn't a ban, all bars allow/have smoking. So, I don't have a choice. If you don't like how our country/government works then yes, contact your congressman. That's what non-smokers and service employees have done.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Flash1969
Smokers suck

Not nearly as much as the whiny little bitches who piss and moan about them. :laugh:

Now excuse me, I've got a cigarette to smoke.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

And when there isn't a ban, all bars allow/have smoking. So, I don't have a choice. If you don't like how our country/government works then yes, contact your congressman. That's what non-smokers and service employees have done.

Not true. See my previous post quoted below.

Originally posted by: Xavier434
The problem here is that you are playing on the side of an extreme which is asking for 100% non-smoking establishments because it appears (correct me if I am mistaken) that you believe that the only other alternative would result in every bar and club being a smoke filled choking hazard. The truth is that it doesn't have to be this way. There are ways to meet in the middle. For example, in many parts of Florida (possibly the whole state?) what they do to give everyone their slice of the pie is to only enforce anti-smoking regulations on establishments where a certain percentage of the products being sold is a form of food. What this has resulted in is that there are both a good number of bars that allow smoking and a good number that do not. Both types make pretty much the same amount of money because the law has done a good job of splitting up the customer pool. It's a great solution. Everyone in a single community gets exactly what they want and they get a lot of it.

So you see, there is a way to meet in the middle and everyone can make their own choice and freedom is preserved.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

B/c there are only a limited amount of jobs and since employee's have rights, they can ask for legislation to ban smoking in their workplace.

If you look at the ratio of available jobs throughout the entire US where smoking is not permitted inside the facility as opposed to the jobs where it is permitted then you will quickly realize that this is not an issue. Avoiding this problem is ridiculously easy.

You forgot to include the skill level / career sector of the employee. Not all restaurant/bar service employees can get jobs in these other sectors or get equal pay.

Name a single position in the restaurant/bar service which would not qualify them for jobs in a non-smoking environment elsewhere which are not very plentiful?

Waiters, waitresses, bar tenders, cooks, restaurant managers, bookkeepers, etc

There are so many jobs out there that these people qualify for which offers equal pay. The individuals where this really proves to be an issue are very few and far between and even then they have options. They can move to an area where it is not an issue to find that kind of employment just like those of us in particular industries that are not widely available everywhere do. They can spend some free time through the use of self study or perhaps even online college course to become qualified for another profession that allows them to be away from smokers if it really means that much to them. The point is that they do not need to the government to hold their hands in this case. If they are unhappy then they need to work hard to make a better life for themselves just like everyone else does.

Bartenders for example, there are only so many positions. If all bars allowed smoking, only so many restaurants have/need bartenders. So, employees should have no rights b/c they can always find a job elsewhere? Then you shouldn't have a problem if all of the gas companies decide to charge $10/gallon b/c the government shouldn't be allowed to interfer with an employer's rights?

And when you have state bans on smoking, statistics prove that businesses don't suffer, they have lower health insurance costs(if they even offer them), employee's are healthier, medical costs are lower, etc.

 

[OdiN]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: OdiN

Originally posted by: meltdown75
the whole province here is smoke-free. you can only smoke in designated areas and certainly not in bars / restaurants.

i bet the gov't is kicking themselves now though, since their casino revenues are being lost to Americans that refuse to visit casinos that don't allow smoking. they should have made an exception with casinos. no one wants to gamble without a ciggy!

I don't go to casinos because they DO allow smoking.

you're sure your primary reason isn't because they suck?

No because I have been to them and the last time I was at one in Vegas an ATM spit out $60 as I was just walking by. So I don't play slots there...I play the ATM's.

Of course the last time I was there was years ago at Comdex and that was the only reason I was there in the first place.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Bartenders for example, there are only so many positions. If all bars allowed smoking, only so many restaurants have/need bartenders. So, employees should have no rights b/c they can always find a job elsewhere? Then you shouldn't have a problem if all of the gas companies decide to charge $10/gallon b/c the government shouldn't be allowed to interfer with an employer's rights?

And when you have state bans on smoking, statistics prove that businesses don't suffer, they have lower health insurance costs(if they even offer them), employee's are healthier, medical costs are lower, etc.

Then try a different career path than bar tending? Who in their right mind even considers being a bartender if they have this much of an issue with smoking anyways? That makes just as much sense to me as joining the Army if you are a die hard pacifist. The government should not have to micromanage everyone by enforcing laws just because of a few people that make extremely bad career decisions.

 

[Canun]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

And when there isn't a ban, all bars allow/have smoking. So, I don't have a choice. If you don't like how our country/government works then yes, contact your congressman. That's what non-smokers and service employees have done.

That is a pretty large exageration. Many chain restaurants have banned smoking from their stores, which was a business decision they made. You can always go to Chilis since they have never allowed smoking. It does have a bar, so yes you have a choice. Now, if you prefer some different bar, then you have to make a choice. Or better yet, open up your own bar that doesn't allow smoking, and you'll make a ton of money by your estimation.