I'm very progressive (and pro-teacher), but this pisses me off...

[Via]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-contract-20120415,0,7670160.story

We're dying here.

 

[shortylickens]

They're killing themselves.
Eventually they will all be replaced by immigrants (legal or not) who will work for much less money and are better teachers besides.
Have already noticed this at my community college. The white and black American professors might be smarter, but they arent necessarily any better at teaching. And they are too demanding and wont go the extra mile. Strictly from a business standpoint they are a bad investment. Recycle the staff completely every 5-10 years and you wont have all these issues. None of this high year tenure slacking off nonsense.
I'm not saying I like it, but it is efficient and eventually thats how it will work out eventually.

 

[boomerang]

Big, big changes are coming. In one form or another, whether we like it or not.

Just remember that when they strike, it's for the kids.

 

[Dulanic]

GOOD teachers are underpaid. Bad teachers are severly overpaid. Cut the benefits that no normal worker gets (pension, roll over sick days etc...) and cut the automatic raises that aren't tied to performance.

 

[FerrelGeek]

GOOD teachers are underpaid. Bad teachers are severly overpaid. Cut the benefits that no normal worker gets (pension, roll over sick days etc...) and cut the automatic raises that aren't tied to performance.

True reform will never happen until the NEA is crushed. Like any other political entity, regardless of left/right, it's all about power and influence, not who you serve.

 

[Exterous]

GOOD teachers are underpaid. Bad teachers are severly overpaid. Cut the benefits that no normal worker gets (pension, roll over sick days etc...) and cut the automatic raises that aren't tied to performance.

I think its important to note that not all public schools get benefits like this.

I will agree that that it seems the CPS teacher's union is living in a fantasy land (Not like Chicago is the best run city in America anyway...)

 

[ichy]

I'm pro-teacher but anti-teacher's unions. The way that unions defend mediocrity pisses me off to no end. I think the demonization of teacher's unions is often over the top (bad parents and bad students are huge problems, pretending that every problem with our education system is because of bad teachers is silly) but they are still a strong negative influence.

 

[Fern]

Big, big changes are coming. In one form or another, whether we like it or not.
-snip-

Yep.

Seems like you can get a degree in Education without ever taking an economics or finance class.

Massive deficits and their response is to demand huge raises and more teachers/employees?

Fern

 

[Genx87]

I get this feeling the teachers union is just daring the politicians to cross them. Almost as if the backlash in Wisconsin is enboldening them to go for it all.

2% raise is more in line with inflation. Who can justify sequential 15% raises?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I'm pro-teacher but anti-teacher's unions. The way that unions defend mediocrity pisses me off to no end. I think the demonization of teacher's unions is often over the top (bad parents and bad students are huge problems, pretending that every problem with our education system is because of bad teachers is silly) but they are still a strong negative influence.

Basically this, especially when it comes to tenure. Tenure no longer makes sense for education. (I'm waffling still about the virtues of tenure for university faculty, but I'm starting to lean against it.)

It is worth noting, though, that a loss of tenure will not bring down the price of education long term. One of the appeals of a teaching career is the perceived stability. If you take that away, the teacher supply will substantially decrease over a couple decades (as fewer people go that direction for a career), meaning that the pay required to hire teachers will go up. This will mean that education on the whole will cost more but be higher quality. This is fine, and probably the way it should be, but fiscal conservatives must understand that tenure is a benefit along the lines of retirement or heath care, and that if they take it away they will need to replace it with pay in the long term.

 

[nageov3t]

step raises really annoy me.

my sister teaches reading... she's currently going to grad school for a masters in British Lit.

how, pray tell, is a master's in brit lit going to make her better at teaching reading to kids? and if it is, shouldn't the raise be commensurate on some kind of performance boost in the classroom?

 

[Moonbeam]

The self serving wealthy bought the country and drained it dry. We know what's going to happen.

 

[Ausm]

True reform will never happen until the NEA is crushed. Like any other political entity, regardless of left/right, it's all about power and influence, not who you serve.

I thought you meant Corporations and the NRA...

 

[zsdersw]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-contract-20120415,0,7670160.story

We're dying here.

Absolutely appalling. I work for a public school district (though am not union, as I'm technically considered "administration") and I think requesting a 30% raise over two years is completely ridiculous.

Do any of the typical union apologists on P&N care to defend such idiocy?

 

[BoberFett]

The self serving wealthy bought the country and drained it dry. We know what's going to happen.

Really? Who bought all that worthless shit that the rich were selling that made them rich? It certainly wasn't you, was it Mr. Mirror?

 

[Craig234]

You say you are a progressive, but... as if being against waste is not progressive. Progressives don't like waste.

This is the sort of thing that the lies told cause. "I'm not anti-black, but I am upset with OJ Simpson's killing his wife". It's not anti-black to be anti-murder.

 

[Exterous]

how, pray tell, is a master's in brit lit going to make her better at teaching reading to kids? and if it is, shouldn't the raise be commensurate on some kind of performance boost in the classroom?

Its an antiquidated notion that is well entrenched in our society. For some reason most states require teachers to get enough college/education credits for a masters or get pretty close. It is slowly changing but frustratingly slowly. This leads to situations like what we have in Michigan right now:
You must pay for and take continuing education courses because 'continuing education courses will make you a better teacher'. But you will not be paid more because 'it has been shown that taking continuing education courses will not make you a better teacher'. Then why are you still requiring them?!

There are other fucked up examples too

 

[IGBT]

anybody that makes a career out of teaching is in a psychological rut or worthless in the real job market.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Absolutely appalling. I work for a public school district (though am not union, as I'm technically considered "administration") and I think requesting a 30% raise over two years is completely ridiculous.

Do any of the typical union apologists on P&N care to defend such idiocy?

Well, teachers are very underpaid as it is, so this seems reasonable...

Nah, I'm just kidding, a 30% raise over two years is insane.

 

[child of wonder]

Our country is so full of fail.

EVERY level of government from the federal down to the tiniest county or public school system seems to be facing record deficits. Meanwhile, almost every organization demands more and more from a bankrupt system.

People will read about our country in history books 100 years from now if we don't stop this shit.

 

[tw1164]

It's hard to believe they only have to pay 2% towards their pensions. A 30% raise over 2 years is absurd. The last contract here granted 10.75% over 3 years, which given the current economic environment seems pretty damn nice.

 

[waggy]

yeah its pretty fucking insane. Only thing i side on with them is that Rahm pretty much forced the extended hours on teachers and little extra pay.

but fuck them if htey think they deserve 15% pay each year over 2 years. fuck them.

 

[tydas]

anybody that makes a career out of teaching is in a psychological rut or worthless in the real job market.

and I'll bet your the model of success typing in your trailer...

 

[woolfe9999]

Absolutely appalling. I work for a public school district (though am not union, as I'm technically considered "administration") and I think requesting a 30% raise over two years is completely ridiculous.

Do any of the typical union apologists on P&N care to defend such idiocy?

A high opening demand is a negotiation tactic. They know they won't get a raise that large.

I think there are a number of problems with teachers unions, the most significant of which is their resistance to tying pay to merit. However, I wouldn't read too much into what happens in a negotiation. Wait and see the final deal.

 

[zsdersw]

A high opening demand is a negotiation tactic. They know they won't get a raise that large.

I realize that, but it doesn't make their list of demands and, particularly, the threat of strike any less ridiculous.

Negotiation tactic or not, shooting the moon like that so it seems more reasonable to accept something far less (closer to the 2% the district offered) is despicable IMO.