IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT.

[kgraeme]

I'm sitting here aghast. I'm honestly amazed at the vehemence of hate being spewed by some of the people here. It's damn scary.

Since I don't even want to get into it with individuals, I'll just mention some stuff:

- Over 80% of immigrants from Mexico are legal. Opinion polls show that the average U.S. citizen thinks that only 20% are legal.

- Most of the southeast asians that many people point to when they complain about new immigrants are here because of their assistance in the Vietnam war. Whether they are Vietnamese, Laotian, Hmong, etc, they fought side by side with us against life and death odds in trying to bring democracy to the region. We are indebted to them, and they are welcome at my table any day.

- First generation immigrants have exceptional difficulty learning the English language. It's a complicated language. But if you ask them what they want their children to learn in school the most, they will always tell you that it is English. They know that without it, they will never be full participants in society.

- The word American derives from Americus Vespucius, an Italian.

- Who are the "true" Americans? The Pilgrims (1620)? The French were here first. The Midwest U.S. was known at the time as "New France" (Jacques Cartier, 1534). The French? America is named for Americus Vespucius an Italian merchant (1500). The Italians? Americus came with the Spaniards and Portuguese explorers (Columbus, 1492; Ponce de Leon, 1513; Cortez, 1519; Hernando de Soto in what is now Oklahoma, 1539; ). The Spanish or Portuguese? The Viking explorers were here first though they didn't stay long (Leif Ericson, ~1000). The Vikings? The Indians/Red Man/Native Americans were here first. Among them, there were thousands of tribes with wildly differening cultures and languages. Heck even their ancestors came across the Bering Strait some 20,000-30,000 years ago. Of this long lineage of immigrants, only one, the most recent, spoke English.





Edit: Welcome Inktomi. How long have you lurked before you decided to come out swinging and taking names?

 

[inktomi]

I've been listening to the banjo music from a distance for some time (LOL) Actually, I have been receiving entertaining second-hand reports for a year or so, but this particular thread "inspired" me to announce myself. Your comments are very much welcome, and I appreciate your thoughtful post!

 

[Red Dawn]

However, the "English only' garbage and the anti-immigrant garbage is just that, racism.

Why is it Racism if Americans want a stricter safer immigration policy?

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: inktomi
I've been listening to the banjo music from a distance for some time (LOL)

Yeah, it does get to be a little like Deliverance around here sometimes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Yeah, it does get to be a little like Deliverance around here sometimes.

You sure have a purdy mouth, now squeel like a pig for us!!

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Yeah, it does get to be a little like Deliverance around here sometimes.

You sure have a purdy mouth, now squeel like a pig for us!!

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooo........................ it will be too much of a cacophony !

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
You sure have a purdy mouth, now squeel like a pig for us!!

You're such a tease.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: SmackdownHotel
Civic obligation? LOL

You'll have to pardon my temporary unsmartness. I've been debating with the Sweeds.

nik

 

[pallander]

Indeed,I have read that before and it is true .We have same problem here.

 

[UltraQuiet]

You sure have a purdy mouth, now squeel like a pig for us!!

Just as I suspected.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: ffmcobalt

Originally posted by: SmackdownHotel
Civic obligation? LOL

You'll have to pardon my temporary unsmartness. I've been debating with <a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge target=blank href="http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=38&threadid=789582">the Sweeds</a>.

nik

LOL, I was there too... got in the last post before the lock

 

[slyedog]

anybody that does not beleive in God has been shitted on a rock. and anybody that
does not agree with the article can hump their sorry asses across any border they want.
either an American or get your ass out of the USA.

 

[Red Dawn]

slyedog, you speak very elequently for muddle minded brain damaged paint chip eating Trailer Park Inbred


European View of America

 

[dude]

They come in here, don't pay taxes, and expect to get things handed to them on a silver platter :| There's a hospital down the street from my house that DOESN'T ACCEPT anyone but Mexicans, even if it's an emergency. And, when the Mexicans go there, their health care is FREE. :| nik (blood is boiling)

You better bring in your local authorities there. That's definately discrimination. Better yet, do something stupid and break your arm. Run in there and as for help. When they refuse, start a rucus. Then they refuse you again. Call the cops. Sue them.

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
slyedog, you speak very elequently for muddle minded brain damaged paint chip eating Trailer Park Inbred


European View of America

all I see u doing is splewing such nice words everytime , in all threads .....:Q

R U allright ??

 

[Red Dawn]

all I see u doing is splewing such nice words everytime , in all threads

The point is addressed with brevity, you should try it yourself.

 

[dude]

Originally posted by: slyedog
anybody that does not beleive in God has been shitted on a rock. and anybody that does not agree with the article can hump their sorry asses across any border they want. either an American or get your ass out of the USA.

I don't believe in God. I know I was born, not what you said.
I don't believe the article. Why should I go for the border?

Yes, I'm an American, and <U>DAMN PROUD</U>. You, obviously, are something else. Take off your white drapes and that pointy towel off your head. See America for once.

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

all I see u doing is splewing such nice words everytime , in all threads

The point is addressed with brevity, you should try it yourself.

I am tempted !

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dude

They come in here, don't pay taxes, and expect to get things handed to them on a silver platter :| There's a hospital down the street from my house that DOESN'T ACCEPT anyone but Mexicans, even if it's an emergency. And, when the Mexicans go there, their health care is FREE. :| nik (blood is boiling)

You better bring in your local authorities there. That's definately discrimination. Better yet, do something stupid and break your arm. Run in there and as for help. When they refuse, start a rucus. Then they refuse you again. Call the cops. Sue them.

Small problem... the Virginia Garcia Clinic gets money from the city and state governments; suing them will get me nowhere but broke and branded racist (*gasp*). Funded by MY TAX DOLLARS to refuse me service. Granted, it's not a full scale hospital -just a small clinic. But it still has emergency capability and turns away non-mexicans.

nik

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The point is addressed with brevity, you should try it yourself.

Wanker.

Woot, this is fun!

 

[dude]

FFMColbolt, If I were you, I would definately get my council person or state rep involved. I don't like that kind of crap going on under my nose.

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: inktomi
However, the "English only' garbage and the anti-immigrant garbage is just that, racism.

Right, because only White people speak English....

You know, unless you're a Native American, you come from immigrants too. Several people have tried to point this out, but some of you ignore the implications because they are inconvenient for your chosen ideology.

I'm not denying that I am descended from immigrants. However, I don't see how this relates today. The conquering of the American continent was a different issue. Europeans came and conquered the Native Americans. They didn't try to live among them and eventually take over or change their society; rather, they pushed them out or killed them. This was a bloodthirsty act, but it's the way the world worked for a long time (and continues to work in places like Israel). You have land; I come and beat you up and take your land. Might doesn't make right, but might does determine ownership of parcels of land. Was this unjust? Was there a lot of duplicity on the part of the Europeans, and later the U.S. Government? Probably, and that's not something of which I'm proud, but that's beside the point. My point was that it was a conquest. If Mexico declared war on the United States and defeated the U. S. army in battle, and took over some land, I would acknowledge the Mexican government's right to the land as the spoils of war. However, that is not what is happening. I think that the difference is clear.

Furthermore, with regard to later waves of immigration (after the formation of the United States), there is a major difference between what is happening now and what happened then. Previous immigrants came on boats. They were thereby necessarily limited in numbers. You can't smuggle millions of people a year on ships that must travel across the Atlantic Ocean and land at major ports. It's just not going to happen. The foremost consequence of this limitation was that the immigrating ethnic minorities always remained a minority. They would form enclaves in which they were the majority, but still, they were always surrounded by the predominant culture into which they immigrated. This is NOT the case in places like the southwestern U.S., where the culture across the border is merely creeping northward. Mexican immigrants in the southwestern United States do not come into contact with American culture writ large, because they are still geographically connected with the Mexican culture. Contrast this with (say) Italian immigrants coming to New York City (works as well for Irish, Chinese, Indian, whatever). Their homeland was thousands of miles away, and although they could still preserve their culture within their ethnic communities, they were completely surrounded by the American culture. This forced (and, for some, continues to force) immigrants to integrate into the American 'melting pot'. Mexican immigrants in the southwest United States are building a new metaphor: not that of a melting pot, but that of another, smaller but ever-growing, pot placed next to the melting pot and gradually pushing the original melting pot off of the stove altogether.

For those of you that responded to my post, why don't you respond with something more than chest-beating and testosterone-driven tantrums? As for being "brainwashed" and other suggestions that I am merely repeating what I've heard all my life, that is incorrect. I was raised by racists who hated everyone who was different because it was the only way to ignore the fact that they really hated themselves.

Do you consider my reply chest-beating, testosterone-driven, and/or a tantrum? For the most part (and for the parts that I would consider most like a tantrum), I merely mimicked your words back at you. What does that say about your original post?

Also, self-hatred is clearly a big problem in the world, and it can lead to things like racism. However, it can also go the other way, and I think that that alternative is equally dangerous. A prominent example is the so-called 'self-hating Jew': Jewish people who, for whatever reason, dislike their own culture and wish to lose it -- to lose their identity -- by marrying outside of the tribe. They dislike their own kind so much that they wish to see it gone from the world, and they purposely contribute to this end by marrying and having children with those of another culture. This can lead to nothing but the eventual extinction of the Jewish people and culture. I've taken Jews as an example here because they're a well-known case, but the argument can be made for other groups as well, particularly Whites in America. There are some who, for some reason, dislike their own race strongly enough to wish its extinction, and to purposely rid the world of their unique genotype, developed over thousands of years of evolution. (Again, I apply these statements to any ethnicity/race in the world.) This strikes me as very, very evil. What will happen to 'diversity' when everybody around the whole damn world looks the same and has the same culture? I think it'd be a pretty boring world, without different languages and skin colors and food and culture. Do you know how many languages have been lost in the past 100 years? Is this really a trend that we want to see continue? I think it's a shame. People should not hate their own heritage/language/skin-color/culture; rather they should embrace it and love it, and learn to love others' cultures/heritage/etc. as well, and most of all, to love the differences because when everybody's the same, then nobody's special. To wish for the extinction of any culture, even one's own, is simply wrong IMO.

Clearly those of you who took issue with some of my comments suffer from the same mental ailments. There are a lot of pseudo-intellectuals here trying to impress one another with their superior knowledge. But I am so far unimpressed.

I remain unimpressed with you as well. I addressed your post part by part, with what I feel to be valid criticisms, and you can't do any better to answer than to attach labels and call names: 'garbage', 'racism', 'mental ailments', 'pseudo-intellectuals', 'inarticulate'. It takes a lot more than mere name-calling to convince anybody of anything, and if the best you can do is call somebody 'racist', then I hope you will become accustomed to not being able to convince people of your viewpoints. Even if you manage to shut somebody up with such words, you're only doing so to your own detriment. Labels and name-calling do not win arguments. Reason wins arguments.

And for those of you who think English is a prerequisite for citizenship - I have some bad news - some of you are inarticulate and are not in any sense masters of the English language.

I won't speak for the others here, but I beg you to criticize my English. If you do so, beware that I will hold you to the same high standard. (BTW I must compliment you on this one part -- your posts read very well.) Also, I doubt that any native speaker of any language always holds himself to the highest standards of usage and grammar. Come on, this is a message board, not a Ph.D. dissertation defense. Communication is the point, and most here communicate quite well, despite the casualness and occasional grammatical errors.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: dude
FFMColbolt, If I were you, I would definately get my council person or state rep involved. I don't like that kind of crap going on under my nose.

Better yet... I'll let all the <edited for Political Correctness> flock over here and I'll move to a much cleaner, more upscale neighborhood that isn't overrun and trashed yet.

nik

 

[dude]

Ok, I just bought this book and now I believe in God! Bwahahahahahahahahah!

 

[bizmark]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
The point is addressed with brevity, you should try it yourself.

something I need to learn