Impeachment coming

[Jaskalas]

It's pretty simple choice. Support Democracy, or support a guy who instigated an attempt to overthrow Democracy. Up to them. And I don't really care if their feels get fucked along the way.

The flat simplicity of your thinking is what makes it so very wrong.

I know many of his supporters wanted Trump to perform an actual military coup. Counter-coup against the Dems stealing the election via ballot and count manipulation. But Trump didn't actually do that. Who knows if he asked for it, but it didn't happen. He didn't do it himself. Instead your charge is that he incited others to riot. Who actually believes that happened? His base doesn't.

I'll ask a question related to whether your charge is real. Was it a crime? Then it belongs with a prosecutor in a court of law.

And what evidence is there? Trump's speech. He never told them to do it. Protest outside the building maybe. As is their right. You know he didn't tell them to attack police or break into the building. There is nothing there. At least not on the surface. But having gone over his words I do see the subtext and I agree that he "did" it. Trump incited a riot.

I suppose the reason you want it handled through a political circus is he wouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Because subtext hardly qualifies as evidence. It exists in the eye of the beholder and people see what they want to see. A lot of people won't even see it at all. And (I bet) psychologically couldn't see it even if they wanted to.

The only saving grace here is McConnell appears to blame Trump. We'll see where he stands after political calculation, but the idea of getting enough Republicans to convict is almost laughable. Even for this. Or rather, especially for this. For something so subtle. Where impeachment is for removal and technically there is no one to remove from office. I dare say this political circus is intended for show only, and certainly not for function. Though we'll see.

I'll say to you the same thing I told Trumpers when they furiously decried Dems stealing the election. Prove it in a court of law. So far they haven't. Will Democrats fair any better?

 

[zzyzxroad]

The flat simplicity of your thinking is what makes it so very wrong.

I know many of his supporters wanted Trump to perform an actual military coup. Counter-coup against the Dems stealing the election via ballot and count manipulation. But Trump didn't actually do that. Who knows if he asked for it, but it didn't happen. He didn't do it himself. Instead your charge is that he incited others to riot. Who actually believes that happened? His base doesn't.

I'll ask a question related to whether your charge is real. Was it a crime? Then it belongs with a prosecutor in a court of law.

And what evidence is there? Trump's speech. He never told them to do it. Protest outside the building maybe. As is their right. You know he didn't tell them to attack police or break into the building. There is nothing there. At least not on the surface. But having gone over his words I do see the subtext and I agree that he "did" it. Trump incited a riot.

I suppose the reason you want it handled through a political circus is he wouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Because subtext hardly qualifies as evidence. It exists in the eye of the beholder and people see what they want to see. A lot of people won't even see it at all. And (I bet) psychologically couldn't see it even if they wanted to.

The only saving grace here is McConnell appears to blame Trump. We'll see where he stands after political calculation, but the idea of getting enough Republicans to convict is almost laughable. Even for this. Or rather, especially for this. For something so subtle. Where impeachment is for removal and technically there is no one to remove from office. I dare say this political circus is intended for show only, and certainly not for function. Though we'll see.

I'll say to you the same thing I told Trumpers when they furiously decried Dems stealing the election. Prove it in a court of law. So far they haven't. Will Democrats fair any better?

Where your logic falls down is by pretending the things leading up to the insurrection don't matter. You can't con people into thinking the election was rigged and then when they take action get no blame. Trump is to blame for this and there isn't two ways about that.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The flat simplicity of your thinking is what makes it so very wrong.

I know many of his supporters wanted Trump to perform an actual military coup. Counter-coup against the Dems stealing the election via ballot and count manipulation. But Trump didn't actually do that. Who knows if he asked for it, but it didn't happen. He didn't do it himself. Instead your charge is that he incited others to riot. Who actually believes that happened? His base doesn't.

I'll ask a question related to whether your charge is real. Was it a crime? Then it belongs with a prosecutor in a court of law.

And what evidence is there? Trump's speech. He never told them to do it. Protest outside the building maybe. As is their right. You know he didn't tell them to attack police or break into the building. There is nothing there. At least not on the surface. But having gone over his words I do see the subtext and I agree that he "did" it. Trump incited a riot.

I suppose the reason you want it handled through a political circus is he wouldn't be convicted in a court of law. Because subtext hardly qualifies as evidence. It exists in the eye of the beholder and people see what they want to see. A lot of people won't even see it at all. And (I bet) psychologically couldn't see it even if they wanted to.

The only saving grace here is McConnell appears to blame Trump. We'll see where he stands after political calculation, but the idea of getting enough Republicans to convict is almost laughable. Even for this. Or rather, especially for this. For something so subtle. Where impeachment is for removal and technically there is no one to remove from office. I dare say this political circus is intended for show only, and certainly not for function. Though we'll see.

I'll say to you the same thing I told Trumpers when they furiously decried Dems stealing the election. Prove it in a court of law. So far they haven't. Will Democrats fair any better?

Jask, it's not my thinking, it's literally the way it is. Im not relying on feelings to make a point. You either support democracy and vote to impeach trump, or you support a would be dictator who just happened to be unsuccessful, this time, who was also supported by other elected officials, all without a shred of fact or evidence.. Those are the options. It can't be any more straightforward than that. Impeachment is legal, criminal prosecution is as well.

I want it handled constitutionally, and impeachment is that process.

I can only urge you to take a step back and think about what your saying. Lying under oath is a crime, remember who got impeached for it?

 

[Jhhnn]

Where your logic falls down is by pretending the things leading up to the insurrection don't matter. You can't con people into thinking the election was rigged and then when they take action get no blame. Trump is to blame for this and there isn't two ways about that.

Yeh, but Jaskalas Gish galloped & obfuscated magnificently. Give him an A for effort. Trump summoned them for a "wild" protest, whipped 'em into a frenzy & they gave him what he asked for as best they could.

 

[UNCjigga]

I’m hearing that the idea to have the rally crowd march on Congress came from the White House—and that the original rally permit specifically excluded any march to the Capitol.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'll ask a question related to whether your charge is real. Was it a crime? Then it belongs with a prosecutor in a court of law.

And what evidence is there? Trump's speech. He never told them to do it. Protest outside the building maybe. As is their right. You know he didn't tell them to attack police or break into the building. There is nothing there. At least not on the surface. But having gone over his words I do see the subtext and I agree that he "did" it. Trump incited a riot.

No, you're right. They'll never get him for the crime of inciting a riot, because what he said at the rally was too ambiguous. He incited them first and foremost by telling them probably the most heinous and dangerous lie in American history. But it isn't a crime to lie to people, even if it causes them to commit violent acts. It's only a crime to directly tell them to go commit violent acts. The First Amendment exception for incitement speech is narrow.

Which is why impeachment is the proper procedure. Trump needs to be put on trial, for the public to see, for his Big Lie.

So far as criminal prosecution, there are plenty of other things he can be prosecuted for having nothing to do with the riot.

 

[compuwiz1]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

 

[hal2kilo]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

They keep sayng that. Why one earth can't it be both?

 

[Fenixgoon]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

You can have a plan and decide to not execute it if your supreme leader calls it off.
Or follow through if he gives you the go ahead.

Dems need to bring in every one of the 100+ arrested, out them on the stand, and ask them who told them to do it, why the did it, etc.

 

[Commodus]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

He'll likely be acquitted, but you're kidding yourself if you pretend Trump isn't responsible.

Trump was the chief architect of the voter fraud lie. None of this would have happened if he hadn't spent months falsely claiming that the election would be rigged if he lost, and whining that it was rigged when he did lose. He was the one who claimed the election was a horrible travesty, and that the country itself was in peril unless officials overturned the election.

You talk about personal responsibility, but what about Trump's responsibility? The rioters would never have stormed the Capitol if Trump had simply told the truth and conceded. Hell, they might have stopped short of rioting if Trump had reserved his lying and complaining for the few days after he lost the vote. He spent months weaving a fictional, hyperbolic narrative that whipped people into a frenzy by January 6th, and he could easily have stopped short.

 

[ch33zw1z]

He'll likely be acquitted, but you're kidding yourself if you pretend Trump isn't responsible.

Trump was the chief architect of the voter fraud lie. None of this would have happened if he hadn't spent months falsely claiming that the election would be rigged if he lost, and whining that it was rigged when he did lose. He was the one who claimed the election was a horrible travesty, and that the country itself was in peril unless officials overturned the election.

You talk about personal responsibility, but what about Trump's responsibility? The rioters would never have stormed the Capitol if Trump had simply told the truth and conceded. Hell, they might have stopped short of rioting if Trump had reserved his lying and complaining for the few days after he lost the vote. He spent months weaving a fictional, hyperbolic narrative that whipped people into a frenzy by January 6th, and he could easily have stopped short.

Yep, and if you really look at it objectively, trump's on record telling 20 THOUSAND lies over 4 years. That doesn't include all the lies leading up to the election.

 

[zzyzxroad]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

What Commodus said. Are under the false belief that Trump's fraud claims were legitimate? He and his team pushed lies which were 100% to blame for what happened at the capitol. He probably will not be convicted but for sure should be.

 

[ch33zw1z]

What Commodus said. Are under the false belief that Trump's fraud claims were legitimate? He and his team pushed lies which were 100% to blame for what happened at the capitol. He probably will not be convicted but for sure should be.

When he's not, you can bet that someonesouttahismind will be screaming about the R's purity test

 

[compuwiz1]

You can have a plan and decide to not execute it if your supreme leader calls it off.
Or follow through if he gives you the go ahead.

Dems need to bring in every one of the 100+ arrested, out them on the stand, and ask them who told them to do it, why the did it, etc.

Do it. That would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Do it. That would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

So no opinion on the stream of lies trump and his legal team used to brainwash most republicans? You don't see a link at all or are you one of the brainwashed?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Dems need to bring in every one of the 100+ arrested,

It's around 250 now, so that might take a while.

 

[zzyzxroad]

It's around 250 now, so that might take a while.

Trump made us so great we will likely have a guy names the QANON shaman testify in front of our Senate.

 

[ivwshane]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

Welcome back traitor. I see you are still defending your cult leader and absolving him of any responsibility for the attack that occurred on our capital. Here is a quick test to see if someone had any part in something such as that event; would any of those people been at the capital if trump didn’t hold his rally at the capital? Would any of those people claimed a rigged election if trump had conceded defeat like the 9 defeated presidents before him? The answer is no, they only came because it’s what trump wanted and they felt they were invited by him and we have video evidence of such.

So go back to wherever your traitor ass has been hiding for the last month and go be a cuck somewhere else.

 

[woolfe9998]

Yep, and if you really look at it objectively, trump's on record telling 20 THOUSAND lies over 4 years. That doesn't include all the lies leading up to the election.

Not trying to be a nitpicker here, but it was 30,000, not 20,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/

 

[Jhhnn]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

So dishonest. None of those people would have been there had it not been for Trump's lies that the election was stolen. He did that as an attempt to overturn democracy & stay in power. When the military, DHS & the DoJ wouldn't back him, he brought forth a mob to attack the Capitol in one last desperate try. They had from Dec 19 to Jan 6 to get organized. It's utterly shameful that any GOP figures backed him at all. Those who did are complicit in insurrection.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not trying to be a nitpicker here, but it was 30,000, not 20,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/

Fair 'nuff

 

[esquared]

Not trying to be a nitpicker here, but it was 30,000, not 20,000.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-claims-database/

So it was 15 shit-tons of lies instead of 10.

 

[NWRMidnight]

So, Lindsay Grahm says if if the Dems want to call witnesses it will cause the GOP to call the FBI as a witness, where he expects they will testify that the riot and takeover was organized well in advance of Trump's speech. My personal belief has always been that people are responsible for their own actions. It's on those who did it to pay the price, and I believe they should all be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law. Trump is being blamed because he can be and that is how politics works, especially for a man who is hated as much as the Democrats hate him. My prediction is he will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict. He is in no way out of the woods, as I'm sure there are many other legal problems down the pike.

First it is isn't the democrats. You need to stop making the Impeachment a democrat vs republican argument because it isn't, even though the majority is the democrats doing the right thing, something most of the republican's don't know how to do. Second, it has already been stated in the House manager's briefing that Trump built it up since the election(actually before, but that wasn't mentioned in the brief) with his continual lies about the fraud in the election, stop the steal, etc. That he planed and organized the "rally"/"protest" on Jan 6 with the intended outcome. He also did NOTHING to stop it, infect there re reports that he was "giddy" and exited about it while it was happening. So let them call the FBI as witnesses. We already have multiple of the insurrectionists claiming Trump told them to do it. All the FBI's testimony will do is strengthen the House's case that Trump is responsible, and strengthen the fact that it started BEFORE Jan 6, 2020, and prove that Trump cannot hold office ever again. It will also present more evidence to the citizens that the DOJ needs to try him criminally after the impeachment.

But of course you are also one who denies that Trump had anything to do with the attack on the Michigan governor, or that he fueled the riots and violence last summer during the BLM protests that most of the violence and rioting was caused by the right wing extremist groups.. So it is expected you won't hold Trump accountable here as well because your beloved cult leader can do no wrong, and it's everyone else that is the problem. How does it feel to live a life of denial?

 

[outriding]

It's around 250 now, so that might take a while.

lol... like a fillabuster..

Do it. That would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

They have already spoke up..

'He invited us': Accused Capitol rioters blame Trump in novel legal defense

Emanuel Jackson, a 20-year-old Washington area man, was caught on video using a metal bat to strike the protective shields wielded by police officers as they tried to fend off rioters storming the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

www.reuters.com

 

[darkswordsman17]

So it was 15 shit-tons of lies instead of 10.

Eh, for once I actually agree with woolfe and he even said he wasn't trying to be a pedant to be a dick. It is actually somewhat important simply because it objectively shows how ridiculous Turmp's Presidency was. And I've seen lots of right wing douchebros that claim they're Republican because of objective rationality (which is absurd to anyone with a functioning brain).