Discussion Impeachment

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,297
6,355
126
I understand that this opinion is not popular to some here and I get it. We just disagree on the best way to get this con man out of office.

There are two reason that democrats don't want to impeach. The Republicans won't impeach Trump for serious crimes against the nation but impeached Clinton for lying about sex on an instance where they happened to have turned up a completely unrelated discovery of a blue dress. They had the philandering asshole by the nuts and their craven attempt to nail him to the cross turned out to make the public sick. They always reveal themselves to be righteous swine just as they are now with their criminally blind Trump support for an immoral pig beautified for them by being painted with their favorite team brand lipstick.

So now that the Republicans polluted the impeachment waters and paid a price, the democrats, who wouldn't impeach then can't find the guts to impeach now, the moral weight of the sins of Trump compared to Clinton making no earthly difference. Thus does the moral core that once made us great dissipate to utilitarian concerns. Morality and the oath of office, the duty to hold the President accountable, fly out the window because of ideologically, things don't look promising.

But there is a truth and everybody knows it at an unconscious level, and that truth is that Democrats have a moral duty to impeach Trump whatever the price. There is the practical which will not admit of the presence of one's immortal soul. Those who do not know their true center will always wonder morally lost. There is one power that will never go extinct so long as children are born, and that is the hunger for justice. I say if you want to win elections make your appeal for that and then deliver.

Garbage like Trump exist because it's costly to oppose him. Better to go with the flow said the jelly fish.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,179
30,642
136
There are two reason that democrats don't want to impeach. The Republicans won't impeach Trump for serious crimes against the nation but impeached Clinton for lying about sex on an instance where they happened to have turned up a completely unrelated discovery of a blue dress. They had the philandering asshole by the nuts and their craven attempt to nail him to the cross turned out to make the public sick. They always reveal themselves to be righteous swine just as they are now with their criminally blind Trump support for an immoral pig beautified for them by being painted with their favorite team brand lipstick.

So now that the Republicans polluted the impeachment waters and paid a price, the democrats, who wouldn't impeach then can't find the guts to impeach now, the moral weight of the sins of Trump compared to Clinton making no earthly difference. Thus does the moral core that once made us great dissipate to utilitarian concerns. Morality and the oath of office, the duty to hold the President accountable, fly out the window because of ideologically, things don't look promising.

But there is a truth and everybody knows it at an unconscious level, and that truth is that Democrats have a moral duty to impeach Trump whatever the price. There is the practical which will not admit of the presence of one's immortal soul. Those who do not know their true center will always wonder morally lost. There is one power that will never go extinct so long as children are born, and that is the hunger for justice. I say if you want to win elections make your appeal for that and then deliver.

Garbage like Trump exist because it's costly to oppose him. Better to go with the flow said the jelly fish.
This is exactly right. There is a cost to impeach and there is a cost to not impeach. If they do attempt to impeach they will be attacked by conservatives and independents as "sore losers" because "their chosen one" lost in 2016 and "everyone knows the Mueller report cleared Trump of all wrongdoing." If they do not attempt to impeach they will be attacked by conservatives and independents as spineless cowards more worried about political calculus than doing what is morally right. One of these opinions is right and it aint the one riddled with air quotes.

Sorry Democrats, since you still haven't seemed to notice after decades of being subject to the exact same pattern, you are fucked no matter what you do. America hates you. You are their punching bag for all the problems that exist in the world. Everything is your fault. Do the right thing. The thing you know is right before you muck it all up overthinking it.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,143
30,099
146
Yes..it is sad. I hate having the opinion "not to impeach".

It is far more likely to end with Trump triumphant -- vindicated by the Senate vote and the possibility of him propelled into re-election.

The idea that impeachment hearings are highly likely to win hearts and minds over to the idea that Trump should be removed from office, seems wildly optimistic. Such hearings are just as likely to build sympathy for Trump (as what happened with Kavanaugh and with Bill Clinton before him).

An impeachment threat is a great fundraising technique. Pelosi was around to see the debacle of the Clinton impeachment. And how the Republicans to a hit for it in 1998.


If impeaching trump means they lose in 2020 then they never had a chance anyway. The reason impeachment backfired on Republicans when they tried it against Clinton was because he was a popular president with a high approval rating that only increased after impeaching. Trump doesn't have that luxury and those that do support trump are unlikely to change their mind if he's impeached or not.

You are basically running with the; we have to be nice to trump supporters or they won't vote for us, routine.

This is what sucks about Democrats/liberals or any other literate person that actually likes and respects this country. We think about things. We consider things. We recognize complex, obnoxious problems for what they are. It means that we go into these problems with a pile of considered plans and the understanding that achieving our goal could actually be the worst outcome, because that is life. And so we dither. We accept failure before we begin.

The GOP and their supporters have a distinct advantage here because they don't think. They just reptile brain every issue and go forward: "arm the torpedoes and damn the consequences!" Of course they have this ability because they did work diligently to insure that their base is 100% gaslighted into fungifying their moral centers and critical thinking into whatever path that their GOP masters tell them must be the proper path. They no longer have morals or convictions: it's just self confirming bias as long as the proper sources confirm it for them.
 
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Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,003
12,545
136
slow liked this, but that is because he is a very stupid person. You have the excuse of making this mistake, being that you aren't American. Slow doesn't have an excuse.

Anyway, impeachment has to proceed first. POTUS can not even be charged until the House votes to impeach him. The Senate would then have to agree to convict him on those charges of impeachment....and then well, I guess he goes to court? No one really knows because the Senate has never convicted a President on impeachment charges. (2? have been impeached--Nixon resigned before that could even begin; but he almost certainly would have been the first POTUS convicted of crimes--he resigned because the GOP-lead senate personally told him that they would not defend him if the House voted to impeach)



....and yeah this is an old reply. I guess it is all very redundant at this point.
I have always thought you would have to commit some serious offense to be impeached and that it required a criminal charge or something.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I wouldn't have to if the concerns they troll weren't real weaknesses. There are just so many angles one can drill down on not to impeach. But none of that will affect anybody who is morally clear and not internally bent like a pretzel.

Democrats have to impeach because Trump is an impeachably offensive. They swore to uphold the Constitution, not just when it is also politically expedient. If you enjoy moral hypocrisy, why not vote Republican.

This is my sentiment on the issue. Failure is not an option .
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,179
30,642
136

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,999
1,520
136
"Poor Bernie! So cheated!" & "You guys need to nominate a moderate!" are contradictory. It's a subtle form of trolling.
Not really they are separate issues. However, the democratic field this year *does* make Bernie look like a moderate.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,775
40,266
136
You know what's funny? Listening to Bob Barr talk in 1994 about how some issues are important enough that you have to set aside precedent, privilege, go through normal barriers, etc to uphold the rule of law.

I haven't laughed that hard since yesterday.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
A very reasoned and intelligent post.
Hi, Confirmation. It's your cousin, Marvin. Marvin Bias. Oh, you knew that? Of course you did.


Also, I think the post you quoted is a thoughtful one and worthwhile. I just think there's no point in your response. The board has the little emojis for this kind of thing.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,297
6,355
126
It’s a nice corollary to ‘The DNC intervention caused Bernie to lose the election he lost by 3,500,000 votes. Also, Russian intervention had no effect on Trump’s victory by 78,000 votes.’
The problem with Democrats is that Sanders lost bu 3.5 million votes. He didn't get robbed; Democrats are tone deaf. They think all you have to do is run against somebody who is stupid and you will win. Democrats though it was money that wins elections and sold to the highest bidder. That just turned out not to be the working man who got the shaft instead. The Democrats burned the working class and the working class burned them back. I know, I know, all those liberal policies benefit the working man. Sell that to people who can't support their families because their jobs went overseas. Somebody forgot to note the fact that foreign workers don't have unions and will work for shit and all the profits go to the 1%. Only a progressive socialist revolution will put a stop to this. Why wouldn't the deploribles wear their Trump hats and t-shirts and raise their finger to a political system that gave them the finger first.

If you want to win elections, teach people the truth of who fucked them and what needs to happen to put an end to it, that only progressive socialism will really help them, not the 1% who pays people to manipulate them to vote to fuck themselves again and again.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,179
30,642
136
The problem with Democrats is that Sanders lost bu 3.5 million votes. He didn't get robbed; Democrats are tone deaf. They think all you have to do is run against somebody who is stupid and you will win. Democrats though it was money that wins elections and sold to the highest bidder. That just turned out not to be the working man who got the shaft instead. The Democrats burned the working class and the working class burned them back. I know, I know, all those liberal policies benefit the working man. Sell that to people who can't support their families because their jobs went overseas. Somebody forgot to note the fact that foreign workers don't have unions and will work for shit and all the profits go to the 1%. Only a progressive socialist revolution will put a stop to this. Why wouldn't the deploribles wear their Trump hats and t-shirts and raise their finger to a political system that gave them the finger first.

If you want to win elections, teach people the truth of who fucked them and what needs to happen to put an end to it, that only progressive socialism will really help them, not the 1% who pays people to manipulate them to vote to fuck themselves again and again.
Yeah conservatives really react well to people telling them they are voting against their own self interests.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
The problem with Democrats is that Sanders lost bu 3.5 million votes. He didn't get robbed; Democrats are tone deaf. They think all you have to do is run against somebody who is stupid and you will win. Democrats though it was money that wins elections and sold to the highest bidder. That just turned out not to be the working man who got the shaft instead. The Democrats burned the working class and the working class burned them back. I know, I know, all those liberal policies benefit the working man. Sell that to people who can't support their families because their jobs went overseas. Somebody forgot to note the fact that foreign workers don't have unions and will work for shit and all the profits go to the 1%. Only a progressive socialist revolution will put a stop to this. Why wouldn't the deploribles wear their Trump hats and t-shirts and raise their finger to a political system that gave them the finger first.

If you want to win elections, teach people the truth of who fucked them and what needs to happen to put an end to it, that only progressive socialism will really help them, not the 1% who pays people to manipulate them to vote to fuck themselves again and again.

Don't buy into the notion that offshoring isn't just a small part of the problem-

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=cus&q=85%+job+loss++automation

It's about who owns the fruits of progress- everybody, or the investor class. It's about the obligations We the People place on Capitalism. The notion that it is some benevolent force has been astroturfed right into conservatives' headsets since Reagan.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,297
6,355
126
Yeah conservatives really react well to people telling them they are voting against their own self interests.
Now dank, do I have to remind you that some of us don't react very well to Republicans who insist of fucking themselves. You of all people seem to want to help them. I think caring about the most lost among us just feels better. You don't do these thing for a thank you, I assume you realize. You do it because it just goes with being better. Not only does it flatter the ego, but it flatters the right one.
 
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GettyRoad

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2016
1,171
349
136
Trump will not be impeached, move on. Democrats and liberals need to stop.
They don't have an economic message, just rambling about BLM and other shit.

Focus on jobs, healthcare, military morale.

Trump will not be impeached.
I don't like the man---but the economy under Trump is doing okay-----he cut regulations.

I voted for Clinton/Kaine, but even I know that is time to move on.

Trump barely won, he will need a miracle to win reelection. Move on, Democrats.

Let Mueller's report show who Trump and SHS is.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,297
6,355
126
Don't buy into the notion that offshoring isn't just a small part of the problem-

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&channel=cus&q=85%+job+loss++automation

It's about who owns the fruits of progress- everybody, or the investor class. It's about the obligations We the People place on Capitalism. The notion that it is some benevolent force has been astroturfed right into conservatives' headsets since Reagan.
Jhhnn, as long as we live in a society that uses money in exchange for only certain forms of social service, every person will be required to have some form of income in order to pursue life liberty and happiness. We are social animals that lived in tribes for millions of years and we didn't let just those who hunted for meat survive. Every person served a purpose and a function and were cared for. Only progressive socialists, will provide that. Capitalism breeds insecurity, competition and hate. Those who thrive in that diseased state love the disease, the feeling they are superior to others. Take that success away and it all falls apart. The winners always wind up being those willing to take from others. The 1% love it.
 
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