No one does, but you'd never guess it from the certitude of the speculation flying around the last few months (and ITT).
I have no idea what AMDs CPU desktop future is.
I don't get what the big deal is for people with fast CPUs. Aren't GPUs always the bottleneck these days?
But the issue was never entirely mitigated, and to this day the number of draw calls high-end GPUs can process is far greater than the number of draw calls high-end CPUs can submit in most instances. The interim solution has been to attempt to use as few draw calls as possible GPU utilization takes a hit if the draw calls are too small but there comes a point where a few large draw calls arent enough, and where the CPU penalty from generating more draw calls becomes notably expensive.
Ergo: Mantle. A low-level API that cuts the abstraction and in the process makes draw calls cheap (among other features).
The slide above (edit:in post 47) does show that they claim "perfect parallel rendering" to utilize all 8 cores. Not sure what that really means or if they can actually do it. But that should give an advantage to AMD cpus, or at least close the gap with intel. I still have a hard time believing that they can make the game so perfectly multithreaded that it will not be limited by a single thread though. Maybe it can be "perfectly parallel" for some parts of the game, but AI and so forth, I dont know how parallel you can make it. It does seem strange though to say it will decrease the cpu load, but use 8 cores. Would seem like decreasing cpu load would also favor fewer cores. Guess we will have to wait for some BF4 benchmarks to really know.
Maybe they specifically tuned it for 8 cores? That should be easier than for X cores.(This is DICE "specific" tho) And less time drawing means more time on other stuff.
I see this as a good thing tho. It is the "right" time. And the right setting. This will be used. Just how WebGL IS the 3D API for the Web, on all or most Browsers, its gonna be in IE, WGL "won", period. This API will be used on one or both consoles, and it will be used on AMD PC Hardware, that's a good thing.
It does make me wonder about DirectX 11.2, but then again, it serves a purpose and that is, easier crossplatform for Windows systems and "easier" development, compared to Mantle. No doom or anything.
But Mantle might be on about 100million game consoles in the next 5-8 years, a few million tablets, note books and desktops. That's valuable, right?
You might get better but then again it's not a given you'll get BEST. You get a compatibility compromise.
I think what AMD is trying to do with Mantle is give you the BEST performance the hardware can give.
It's too early to tell....But then again most people stated nothing will come from the AMD console sweep.
Obviously it has a potential for big performance improvements. I just worry about the PC gaming market becoming fragmented, with traditional Direct X games getting the short end of the stick. Especially now with Steam OS and Mantle seems like developers may be forced to spread themselves thin to embrace these new technologies while continuing traditional PC games. Are developers now going to code games with codepaths for SteamOS, Mantle, and Dx11?
I feel like we're misunderstanding here, yet that we're both saying the same thing in different ways. And if it's me misunderstanding you, then I take responsibility for that.
What I get from that slide is DICE stating their Frostbite 3 engine will achieve much better throughout out of 8 cores/threads/whatever using the Mantle API, which is understandable given that it's a low level API unlike DirectX or OpenGL. But what I'm also stating is that Intel will benefit from Mantle too, as we all know their CPUs are much higher IPC, and can process 8 threads at once too (through HT at least). If I'm not mistaken, the previous Frostbite engine could also utilize 8 threads pretty well, so it's not like we're just now introducing multi-thread capability into Call of Duty.
With that said however, and I should have mentioned this earlier, is that game developers are already optimizing their code for higher core counts. Sony Online Entertainment is currently rewriting their Planetside 2 code to be significantly better threaded, as currently the game's main performance critical thread responsible for player tracking and physics is single thread only. That's all about to change, and the leading developer has stated they've seen huge performance improvements from the new code. That's undoubtedly going to benefit AMD, and should go a long ways to leveling the playing field between Intel and AMD gaming performance.
What I don't think will happen though is AMD magically catching up to Intel performance using the Mantle API in games that aren't well threaded, as Mantle doesn't change any of that. And, yeah, maybe we're actually both agreeing on that, but I'm just misunderstanding you lol. That's why I said Mantle will benefit both AMD and Intel pretty equally.
I have no idea what AMDs CPU desktop future is.
Given that steamroller will only have a 2M/4T APU implementation in the near future, with 4M/8T stuff pretty much not appearing, I am not sure AMD really wants to keep pursuing multithreading over 4 cores.
Given that steamroller will only have a 2M/4T APU implementation in the near future, with 4M/8T stuff pretty much not appearing, I am not sure AMD really wants to keep pursuing multithreading over 4 cores.
This was prophesied by quite a few memebers here back when the consoles were revealed to use AMD x86. While we are still -before- the fact, it sure looks like it is the play that AMD is going for... And here's to hoping!
I must admit that the inner dev in me is applauding this move, we have been throwing hardware at performance for way too long when we could do smarter instead of harder. I am sure Intel/Nvidia will counter with something equally awsome.
What I dont get it the slide that mentions 8 cores .. when we know that SR is 4 core max.. Mantle's primetime surely fits in SR timeline.. right?
edit : on the other hand, if mantle and derivatives are gonne rock the PC gaming performance, it will also sort of age the new consoles that much quicker. To us at least.
It says 8 cores because frostbyte is good for 8 cores.
That's what make the Frostbyte 3 engine and Cryengine 3 the most exciting at the moment (Unreal Engine 4 hasn't really been explored with a "first party developer" like Crysis 3 or Battlefield yet, so we don't know the full potential)
I demand an Unreal Tournament 4 :O
So .. an 8 core haswell-e with a radeon or two for crossfire could prove to be the ultimate gaming rig in a years time ..
http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/07/22/the-evolution-of-direct3d/
That's a post from one of the DX creators. Just look at what Microsoft wanted to get with the API model and look what AMD is proposing with Mantle. Go with Mantle and you will be stuck with AMD GNC for the rest of your life. Try Intel or Nvidia or Mali and you need a new code path. Heck, even a new AMD architecture that is not compatible with GNC will need a new code path.
That said, Mantle should be good for the Mcports we see today, but for the PC ecosystem it is not good at all.