Impressions of NFS: Shift?

[dguy6789]

I'll play the game when I get a controller. Right now I've been playing it on a keyboard

 

[smackababy]

So, in a attempt to not feel cheated out of my money by EA, I kept playing NFS: Shift. The racing portions are very tough on the hardest difficulty. I am playing with a controller and that makes racing a bit tougher than a wheel I'd like to believe. The issues I had with drifting all went away as soon as I got in an RX-7. That car was amazing for drifting. I even upgraded it to full upgrades, quickly realizing that messed up the feeling I had. So, I sold my Tier 3 upgrades and continued to love drifting in it. The works conversions are expensive, but make a deal of difference for some cars. I made it to the NFS World Tour, but haven't actually completed any of those series. The game is, surprisingly, addictive. I am thoroughly enjoying this game so far. Oh, and I got a fixed crack so I don't have to deal with archaic DRM.

 

[mwmorph]

NFS Shift v.s. GRID

NFS Shift is a lot like GRID with some differences.

Pros:
The voice overs aren't as annoying.

Ability to upgrade cars and customize more than GRID.

Cons:
Performance is Abysmal on ATI cards. I have a ATI HD4870 1GB, 1280x1024, medium high settings is decently playable.

Physics is flawed.

Bumper tapping easily causes your car to submarine under and throw the car in front into the air.

Total tire grip is way, way too low. Absolutely too much under and oversteer.

Sound is no nearly as good as that one reviewer put it. No, a touring car race does not have tires screeching over every lap. There should be 2 important sounds, engine noise and gearbox noise(if you have upgraded components) from the straight cut gears

Controls are absolutely wonky, again, goes back to the core physics system. Remember when GP Legends was released and the ride height/bump stop bug was included? Remember how unpredictable the cars were, sliding every which way around a track? It's like that. I have dead zone to 10% and EVERYTHING causes either understeer or oversteer, even minor adjustments to stay on the racing line.

Let me put it this way, a FIA GT1 level car should NOT do a 4 wheel slide when taking a sharp corner at 33mph.

AI is weird, getting to the front can be a challenge, opponents can be oddly aggressive because of their inability sometimes to deviate from the race line (and thus crash into you and spin out). Once at the front, extremely easy to create a huge lead an never see another car.

Middling
Graphics look fine, not bad, nothing special.

It's passable, but only because there's very little choice for semi-simulation games until GRID 2.

This reminds me of ProStreet. The Physics have improved, but it's still not as good as GRID.

 

[destrekor]

Anybody have an Nvidia GTX200 series card and having problems with graphics?

Running at 1680x1050, 2xAA, 4xAF, every setting maxed. With other cars on the track, I'm lucky to get 45fps or so, and it stutters and/or drops severely, rarely does it appear smooth.

I have a buddy who has everything maxed at 1920x1080p, highest AA and AF and it remains smooth the entire time.

Anyone know if the latest beta driver improves this or something? The 191 non-WHQL driver?

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: MTDEW

Originally posted by: ixelion

Then I found out by putting Steering Assist to 'normal' instead of 'novice' or whatever it was, cut out the crap,

After trying this the controls are much better, I am enjoying the game much more now. The menu still sucks but better get used to it, not going away anytime soon.

Time Trial is the only thing I like, the challenge of mastering car handling is the most fun. The "Aggressive" game modes are utter crap imho.

I would highly recommend anyone using a game pad to disable steering assist and adjust steering acc\brake sensitivity. I twill make a HUGE difference in the driving experience.

Here are some interesting tweaks that supposedly make the game play way better with an xbox 360 controller/gamepad.
http://forums.xbox.com/1/29123...ShowPost.aspx#29123795

Here's a copy/paste from above link for the lazy.

Steering Dead Zone-15%
Accel Dead Zone-10%
Brake Dead Zone-10%
Steering sensitivity-5%
Acell Sensitivity -5%
Brake sensitivity-5%
Speed steering Sensitivity 100%


On to the 2nd fix:

At the main menu enter CAR GARAGE----> TUNING, press 'Y' to enter quick tuning mode.
Under the heading 'balance' move the slider all the way to OVERSTEER. That's right oversteer. Apparently the developer labeled this slider wrong or its a glitch. Turning the slider to oversteer will actually add understeer.

Now go drive. as you can see the cars are now more comparible to the feeling of Forza2 and RacePro. It may not be as good but it is now close! There was a sim hidden somewhere in all this mess and I may have to take back some to the nasty things I said beforehand

Do you have exact numbers for advanced tune? When setting max oversteer in simple tuning, it drop ride height like a rock. Any works upgraded car will bottom out and actually drag the rear on the ground at around 85% top speed, making the whole handling thing moot at any fast track. Dakota GP and the Nurburgring so far have murdered both a Works GTR and Corvette since keeping them on a track is difficult when the chasis is touching the ground.

edit: Also if anyone has time, pick up a R34 Skyline GTR an works tune it. My stats page says it does a 1.29s 0-60 with a 320mph top speed. Weird.

 

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: MTDEW

Originally posted by: ixelion

Then I found out by putting Steering Assist to 'normal' instead of 'novice' or whatever it was, cut out the crap,

After trying this the controls are much better, I am enjoying the game much more now. The menu still sucks but better get used to it, not going away anytime soon.

Time Trial is the only thing I like, the challenge of mastering car handling is the most fun. The "Aggressive" game modes are utter crap imho.

I would highly recommend anyone using a game pad to disable steering assist and adjust steering acc\brake sensitivity. I twill make a HUGE difference in the driving experience.

Here are some interesting tweaks that supposedly make the game play way better with an xbox 360 controller/gamepad.
http://forums.xbox.com/1/29123...ShowPost.aspx#29123795

Here's a copy/paste from above link for the lazy.

Steering Dead Zone-15%
Accel Dead Zone-10%
Brake Dead Zone-10%
Steering sensitivity-5%
Acell Sensitivity -5%
Brake sensitivity-5%
Speed steering Sensitivity 100%


On to the 2nd fix:

At the main menu enter CAR GARAGE----> TUNING, press 'Y' to enter quick tuning mode.
Under the heading 'balance' move the slider all the way to OVERSTEER. That's right oversteer. Apparently the developer labeled this slider wrong or its a glitch. Turning the slider to oversteer will actually add understeer.

Now go drive. as you can see the cars are now more comparible to the feeling of Forza2 and RacePro. It may not be as good but it is now close! There was a sim hidden somewhere in all this mess and I may have to take back some to the nasty things I said beforehand

Do you have exact numbers for advanced tune? When setting max oversteer in simple tuning, it drop ride height like a rock. Any works upgraded car will bottom out and actually drag the rear on the ground at around 85% top speed, making the whole handling thing moot at any fast track. Dakota GP and the Nurburgring so far have murdered both a Works GTR and Corvette since keeping them on a track is difficult when the chasis is touching the ground.

edit: Also if anyone has time, pick up a R34 Skyline GTR an works tune it. My stats page says it does a 1.29s 0-60 with a 320mph top speed. Weird.

Actually, no i dont since im using a G25 wheel, i just posted that for those using a controller since a lot of people are and i just happened to notice that thread on it, sorry.

 

[destrekor]

Anyone who picks this up for PC and has performance troubles... and is also using an Nvidia video card, might want to look into the latest 190.62 drivers. They are actually from August, but I was using the 190.38 drivers and was experiencing a terrible stuttering-like effect even with a framerate over 30fps. But it typically was stuck around that, usually between 25 and 45. No changing of settings could change this, so I was definitely looking at drivers as the likely culprit. Typically, changing video settings has an impact on framerate, one direction or the other.

My hardware and typical framerate:
CD2 6420 @ 3.2ghz
nvidia GTX285 (1gb)
4gb DDR2

Now, I am averaging around 45-70fps, depending on scene of course, and completely smooth. Car performance and how other cars look in maneuvering have completely changed too, and is now very predictable.

1680x1050
4xAA
8xAF
Max settings everything else (all set to "High")

I think I can up those graphical settings too, higher AA and AF.

I am enjoying this far more than I had been on the PS3. Now I just have to exchange the PS3 version for the PC version. Feels much better using my G25 on the PC version, and vehicle control is more predictable and just feels much more "right". Not to mention real damage is actually present now, some strange bug (or a developer dropping the ball) might explain the PS3 version. Full damage is selected yet at most you can get is a cracked windshield. That and a few other things leads me to believe there are a few settings stuck on, regardless of menu choices.

Note: the driver situation might only effect the GTX200 series.

 

[MTDEW]

Some VERY nice custom settings for the G25 wheel here.
http://www.nogripracing.com/fo...howthread.php?t=164378

I ended up finally using Cheeso's settings which combined Bramski's FFB 1.1 file and Juls's "better handling" file.

With my wheel set to defaults in windows control panel with 540 deg lock, the game handles much much better now with more feedback of what the car is doing on the track.

 

[smackababy]

My only real complaint now about this game is how every car and every track differs vastly from one another. That is realistic, but when I'm forced to switch cars to complete a race, I want some degree of similarity besides: right foot GO, left foot STOP. My BMW M3 Works drives and handles completely differently depending on the tracks. I should stop hording my money though and go ahead and buy a super car. Sadly, if you do well enough (I almost always get all stars available in a race) you end up not having to grind much to get to the NFS: World Tour. I haven't started that tier yet, but I have it unlocked.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Picked this game up today. The polish and production values are excellent. Unfortunately it runs like absolute shit on my 4830, it's not even playable. How disappointing, I'll be returning this one.

 

[reallyscrued]

I'm curious as how to you plan on returning open software.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

EB Games in NZ has a 7-day no questions asked return policy, even for PC games. I've returned 4 games in the past, 3 because they were just not fun and the fourth (Shift) because of technical issues.

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
EB Games in NZ has a 7-day no questions asked return policy, even for PC games. I've returned 4 games in the past, 3 because they were just not fun and the fourth (Shift) because of technical issues.

Weird. If you try to do that in the US the clerk will tell you they legally cannot take open software back (which is a lie, but its still their policy not to anyways).

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
EB Games in NZ has a 7-day no questions asked return policy, even for PC games. I've returned 4 games in the past, 3 because they were just not fun and the fourth (Shift) because of technical issues.

Weird. If you try to do that in the US the clerk will tell you they legally cannot take open software back (which is a lie, but its still their policy not to anyways).

I've never tried used PC returns, but I do know GameStop (EB Games) offers no questions asked returns within 7 days for all console games. I think they tend to track it person by person, because some people seriously abuse this feature at some stores (like free rentals).

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: Slick5150

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
EB Games in NZ has a 7-day no questions asked return policy, even for PC games. I've returned 4 games in the past, 3 because they were just not fun and the fourth (Shift) because of technical issues.

Weird. If you try to do that in the US the clerk will tell you they legally cannot take open software back (which is a lie, but its still their policy not to anyways).

I've never tried used PC returns, but I do know GameStop (EB Games) offers no questions asked returns within 7 days for all console games. I think they tend to track it person by person, because some people seriously abuse this feature at some stores (like free rentals).

They always take down my name and phone number when I make returns. AFAIK they don't resell the returned games, because they'll even take returns on games that require online activation. My guess is they have a deal with the publishers or distributors to get the games partially refunded, but that's a total guess. All I know is that since they opened up shop here I've bought every one of my games from EB because of the return policy, takes the risk out of PC game purchases.

 

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Picked this game up today. The polish and production values are excellent. Unfortunately it runs like absolute shit on my 4830, it's not even playable. How disappointing, I'll be returning this one.

Im using a Nvidia gtx 280 , so i cannot say for sure 100%, but im pretty sure i saw several threads on the official NFS forums about ATi performance issues with this game.
So you may wanna check that out b4 returning just to see if there may be a solution that will get you acceptable performance on your hardware.

I only glance over what i see since it does not pertain to my setup, but here is an example on the AMD/ATI forms.
http://forums.amd.com/game/mes...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: MTDEW

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Picked this game up today. The polish and production values are excellent. Unfortunately it runs like absolute shit on my 4830, it's not even playable. How disappointing, I'll be returning this one.

Im using a Nvidia gtx 280 , so i cannot say for sure 100%, but im pretty sure i saw several threads on the official NFS forums about ATi performance issues with this game.
So you may wanna check that out b4 returning just to see if there may be a solution that will get you acceptable performance on your hardware.

I only glance over what i see since it does not pertain to my setup, but here is an example on the AMD/ATI forms.
http://forums.amd.com/game/mes...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Yep it's definitely an ATI issue from what I've read. I have to say I'm gutted because from what I saw the game really looks GREAT and I'm very keen to play it. I have returned it for now but if a fix ever comes out I'll definitely pick it up again.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: MTDEW

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Picked this game up today. The polish and production values are excellent. Unfortunately it runs like absolute shit on my 4830, it's not even playable. How disappointing, I'll be returning this one.

Im using a Nvidia gtx 280 , so i cannot say for sure 100%, but im pretty sure i saw several threads on the official NFS forums about ATi performance issues with this game.
So you may wanna check that out b4 returning just to see if there may be a solution that will get you acceptable performance on your hardware.

I only glance over what i see since it does not pertain to my setup, but here is an example on the AMD/ATI forms.
http://forums.amd.com/game/mes...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

Yep it's definitely an ATI issue from what I've read. I have to say I'm gutted because from what I saw the game really looks GREAT and I'm very keen to play it. I have returned it for now but if a fix ever comes out I'll definitely pick it up again.

Maybe wait for a patch? Or try some of the fixes out there? iirc, there was a fix or two out there that has helped some.

I was having terrible problems too, installed a new driver and it improved. Granted, I do have an nvidia card so the situation is different.

What is intriguing is how much EA seems to have helped push SMS to do some strange things with the game, although at the heart of the game seems to be the same level of simulation as their past works. Seems the exact same foundation has been set, but it seems the default configurations aren't all that hot - like it was designed to still play a little loose, though tweaking the settings, with variables all over almost the exact same as the GTR series, seems to make it play like the true grounded simulation the developer is known for.
Well, there are more insane sim experiences out there, like iracing.com, but at the most marketable level on the PC, the GTR series does reign supreme. rFactor is similar, even more sim at heart, but doesn't come with real cars and fans rely on mods for real cars.

It's sad that it takes a little digging to get to the real meat of this game too, but imho it's so worth it. The sim experience the developer is known for, with a fancy new beautiful engine and presentation it deserves. Sure, it isn't the same level of visuals as the GT5/GT5P, but the overall presentation feels much better.

The one nice thing this developer has always done is give a more gritty realistic image presentation, and SimBin has continued that with the 'Race' series, in comparison to what I've always felt was a very sterile presentation in every GT game.

Not to mention the track geometry is just phenomenal in Shift. And the cockpit view, combined with everything else the game offers, and has the potential to offer to those willing to do a little work, just combines to make the most thrilling experience.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Believe me destrektor I agree with every positive thing you have to say about the game. From what I've seen the presentation, graphics and sound are top notch. I am eagerly awaiting a patch, at which time I'll pick the game up again. The cockpit camera is really incredible and it looks to be the most realistic "feeling" sim out there, even if the physics and handling aren't particularly realistic. Glad to hear you're having fun with it, great PC racing titles are thin on the ground (last really impressive one was Race Driver 3 in my opinion).

 

[Farmer]

So, is this game a go or no go for play with a 360 gamepad on the PC?

I'm used to playing Forza with a gamepad on the 360.

Then again I have an HD4870, so maybe this game is a no go regardless of anything.

 

[NoSoup4You]

Installing game now... loved the demo.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Farmer
So, is this game a go or no go for play with a 360 gamepad on the PC?

I'm used to playing Forza with a gamepad on the 360.

Then again I have an HD4870, so maybe this game is a no go regardless of anything.

With analog triggers for accel/braking, it works better,but the physics are still the physics. You can sort of fix it, but it will not be realistic like a racing sim. I would give it a try if I were you, but realistically, be prepared to be unhappy with how stupid the physics are.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Farmer
So, is this game a go or no go for play with a 360 gamepad on the PC?

I'm used to playing Forza with a gamepad on the 360.

Then again I have an HD4870, so maybe this game is a no go regardless of anything.

With analog triggers for accel/braking, it works better,but the physics are still the physics. You can sort of fix it, but it will not be realistic like a racing sim. I would give it a try if I were you, but realistically, be prepared to be unhappy with how stupid the physics are.

a lot of the physics comes down to the tire grip. I think the default car configurations are "off" on purpose, but can be tweaked to a full sim feeling. A lot of talk about the way the pressure works.

For instance, there is in fact tire deformation, showing tires that look terribly under-inflated.
All comes down to either too much oversteer or too much understeer. They did something with tire pressure default settings.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: Farmer
So, is this game a go or no go for play with a 360 gamepad on the PC?

I'm used to playing Forza with a gamepad on the 360.

Then again I have an HD4870, so maybe this game is a no go regardless of anything.

With analog triggers for accel/braking, it works better,but the physics are still the physics. You can sort of fix it, but it will not be realistic like a racing sim. I would give it a try if I were you, but realistically, be prepared to be unhappy with how stupid the physics are.

a lot of the physics comes down to the tire grip. I think the default car configurations are "off" on purpose, but can be tweaked to a full sim feeling. A lot of talk about the way the pressure works.

For instance, there is in fact tire deformation, showing tires that look terribly under-inflated.
All comes down to either too much oversteer or too much understeer. They did something with tire pressure default settings.

By no means am I trying to downplay the physics engine. The engine itself is an amazing piece of work. Remeber GT Legends and GTR 2? The Gecko engine in NFS Shift is an evolution of that. It is a full sim engine with parameters for different wear pattern and weather patterns and suspension types.

That's what kills me, this could have been an incredible game... if it wasn't so poorly tweaked to appeal to a more arcade-sim-drift audience.

Really if someone tweaked the suspension and tire settings (well and ride height/downforce) for the cars, it would be pretty damn good.

I forgot to add, I tweaked my Works cars to max ride height, medium bump-stop height before they would top bottoming out. I'm talking about 4+ inches of front AND rear squat at high speeds on a Corvette, using the default downforce parameters. Assuming you're using 600lb/inch springs, very conservative for a top tier race car(Stock E36 M3 at just 3" 720lbs/inch rear in 1995, the Opel DTM race car uses 1142lb/inch spring rates), that's 2500+lbs of downforce on the front AND rear wheels (At least 5000lbs total). Sure doesn't feel like it, when cornering though.

The only other issue is that the engine has built in input lag, both in the engine and in all the car config files to make the floaty feeling even worse.

I have no idea, why the game was designed this way and I doubt SMS will fix it, but there is hope that community mods will come out eventually to fix this physics mess.

SMS started with an incredible core... and then purposely screwed everything up for god knows what reason.

Basically this games need an entire config file overhaul.

 

[n7]

I don't understand the AMD cards performance issues.

I have it running around 35-40 fps according to Fraps @ 2560x1600 maxed 4x AA on my HD 4890.

I've found for racing games, 30+ fps is just fine for smoothness, at least for me anyway.