We aren't "unnecessarily put down AMD". AMD is putting down itself with a shitty product called BD. I think you don't seem to get it.
I'm not an AMD fan, I'm a fan of the low prices and competition (that keeps them low).
Any firm constantly evaluates the market's response to their products and not only, to those of their competitors. The more hype, the more expensive the product (demand and offer).
Repeating everywhere that Bulldozer is worse than it actually is (and it's not that good but far from being a dud or a fail) will lead to Intel raising the prices. That's Capitalism 101.
Apple has a history of selling good but overpriced products based on the hype perpetrated by their fanboys everywhere and those fans were hurting themselves. The more they praised the Apple products and the more they trashed the competition the more money they had to pay for their favorite brand.
You can bet that somewhere in the Intel HQ some marketing guys are arguing for price increases for the Sandy Bridge line and this Bulldozer thinghy will affect the pricing of the Intel future products as well.
So, if you like Intel and think that Bulldozer stinks you may want to keep that to yourself. Of course if somebody asks for your help in deciding what platform, recommend Intel but don't unnecessarily put down AMD or your next Intel CPU might be $600 and be named "i-Vybridge" or i-Ntel.
I'm not an AMD fan, I'm a fan of the low prices and competition (that keeps them low).
Any firm constantly evaluates the market's response to their products and not only, to those of their competitors. The more hype, the more expensive the product (demand and offer).
Repeating everywhere that Bulldozer is worse than it actually is (and it's not that good but far from being a dud or a fail) will lead to Intel raising the prices. That's Capitalism 101.
Apple has a history of selling good but overpriced products based on the hype perpetrated by their fanboys everywhere and those fans were hurting themselves. The more they praised the Apple products and the more they trashed the competition the more money they had to pay for their favorite brand.
You can bet that somewhere in the Intel HQ some marketing guys are arguing for price increases for the Sandy Bridge line and this Bulldozer thinghy will affect the pricing of the Intel future products as well and not in a good way.
Imagine AMD announced a year ago that Bulldozer will be mainly for heavy multithreaded apps, how much would you had to pay for your 2500K? $350? $400?
So, if you like Intel and think that Bulldozer stinks you may want to keep that to yourself. Of course if somebody asks for your help in deciding what platform, recommend Intel but don't unnecessarily put down AMD or your next Intel CPU might be $600 and be named "i-Vybridge" or i-Ntel.
We aren't "unnecessarily put down AMD". AMD is putting down itself with a shitty product called BD. I think you don't seem to get it.
We aren't "unnecessarily put down AMD". AMD is putting down itself with a shitty product called BD. I think you don't seem to get it.
Way to ignore 90% of what I wrote.
And since when not having the best products equals with "fail", "shitty", etc?
Are the Antec PSUs shitty because Seasonic or Corsair are better? Are the Seagate or WD drives shitty because Samsung has a great line?
You need to correct your analogy by restating 'what if' Seagate/WD new hyped up drives run slower and hotter than their old models. So its hard to take your advise.Way to ignore 90% of what I wrote.
And since when not having the best products equals with "fail", "shitty", etc?
Are the Antec PSUs shitty because Seasonic or Corsair are better? Are the Seagate or WD drives shitty because Samsung has a great line?
I didn't say they own the market, I said they have the superior mobile solutions. More GPU is where it's at, especially considering power and usability of a mobile device.
I have a high end i7 mobile chip. It's not that great, and I'd take an equivalently priced Llano or similar laptop over it anyday. The extra CPU power of my i7 is pointless.
That's what I've been saying, since C2D, this "war" is over. Intel won. Anything AMD or Intel puts out now is overkill for 98% of the users out there, they need to worry about ARM.
Let's face it, in this market, 2011, Bulldozer is fine.. if not preferable to having a cheat of sorts in counting cores. I'd gladly market it. And I'd gladly trade my C2Q for one straight up. It's not that bad of a CPU, and has all the power (and more) than almost everyone here needs.
I use mine for H.264 conversion, heavy gaming, simultaneous streaming, and I have far more than enough CPU power. Many people (even here) just sit on Anandtech and post on an i7.. it's pretty absurd. What the market needs, and wants, are more integrated GPU solutions to reduce heat and power, along with price.
I understand the excitement and circle jerking, especially for the Intel fans who had to listen to Bulldozer hype for years.. but the reality is x86 CPUs are no longer a hot market for advancement.
Most of Intel's advancements in the performance department for most people are completely wasted at this point. Guys like me are no longer rushing out to buy an FX or i7 because we don't need one. I have plenty of resources too, it's not a lack of money.. it's just that it is wasted money. Especially if you have anything post-C2D era like a quadcore PhenomII or C2Q/i5/i7 already. Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer are utterly pointless.
But lets stop kidding ourselves, Bulldozer isn't slow.
I agree the power requirements are a bit high, and for that, the price on this gen should be a little lower. But this is from my standpoint only, prices should NOT be dropped on it due to marketing picking up slack in that area. Most people don't know about power requirements in Fry's.
Spend your money on a larger SSD or a better video card if you're gaming, even pickup a Brazos powered ultrabook with great battery life. If you can truly maximize the value of a high end i7 or FX, more power to you.. the product's (high end CPU advancements) appeal to the mass market is dwindling.
Say hello to the ARM era.
You need to correct your analogy by restating 'what if' Seagate/WD new hyped up drives run slower and hotter than their old models. So its hard to take your advise.
That isn't true of bulldozer either, quit exaggerating.
What isn't......... exactly?
Regarding the earlier discussion of BD selling out a newegg, I wasn't trying to imply that they sold a couple CPUs and that proves they are doing fine. The point is, all this doom & gloom discussion is just talk, while reality is that bulldozer, so far at least, is selling fine.
Is it limited by lack of mass production? Good thing AMD didn't charge less for it, they would have just been throwing money away as it sold out anyway. If AMD has a problem with BD, it's that they can't produce enough right now.
Amazon too, now. It doesn't say out of stock, it says "Usually ships within 1 to 2 months." Translation= out of stock, we will ship when we get more.
If anything, AMD should have charged more for FX-8150 on initial release.
Another thing people forget, that this isn't 1997 anymore. As if actually matters in this market if AMD comes back or not. Or if Intel gets complacent.
These are dinosaurs. The age old fanboy circlejerk times are over. This is Apples time, this is ARMs time. The PC market is dying. No one outside of us age-old x86 dogs give a damn about Intel and AMD CPU designs which are both grossly overpowered.
A Bulldozer for all intents and purposes, is equal to an i7 for almost all of us.
The consumer wants a Macbook Air or an iPad.
Bulldozer doesn't run slower AND hotter than the previous model, generally. I'm sure you can dig up one benchmark out of hundreds where that may be the case, but on average it is faster than the previous generation AMD CPUs.
Not having the best products doesnt = Fail. But not having the best products and pricing them like you do does = a huge fail.
Lieing to your potential customers about IPC for two years before relese also = a huge fail
Not beating your old best chip from last gen also = a huge fail
As it is right now a 2500k is faster than a FX 8150 in almost everything and cost $100 less. And it also uses alot less power to do it so you will even save money in the long run on power.
BTW Seasonic makes PSU's for both Antec and Corsair so your analogy makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.
So, you decided by yourself that the single threaded performance is all that matters in a CPU?
I suggest you go here and actually look at the results
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/the-bulldozer-review-amd-fx8150-tested
Its not faster than the old X6 in most tests, at best it trades blows with it, overall they are about the same speed. And the BD chip does run hotter and use more power to do it.
The FX-8150, in comparison, averages 191 W. That 34 W delta almost exactly correlates to the 30 W separating Intel’s 95 W rating and AMD’s 125 W TDP. Even more interestingly, the Phenom II X6 1100T hits the same 191 W system average across PCMark 7.
You know, just the simple fact that people feel the need to defend BD is a testament to it as a failure. Did you see any, "In defense of SB/Nehalem/C2D/etc." threads when they came out?
The notion that the PC market is dying is ridiculous. For all their coolness, portability, and instant-on ability, tablets, smartphones, and other similar devices are still much more about consumption. There remains, and in some respects will always be, a need for devices that excel at creation.
Tablets, smartphones, and similar devices are built around the concept of mobility and addressing the needs and concerns in making the best mobile device. They aren't built to be the best at web design, media manipulation, high-end gaming, distributed computing, programming, or any other task upon which productivity demands an input method other than a multitouch screen. Until or unless that changes, they remain almost exclusively devices for consumption, not creation.
The PC as we know it may find its role shifting from the "do everything" device to the device we make things with, but that doesn't mean its a dying market.
The notion that the PC market is dying is ridiculous. For all their coolness, portability, and instant-on ability, tablets, smartphones, and other similar devices are still much more about consumption. There remains, and in some respects will always be, a need for devices that excel at creation.
Tablets, smartphones, and similar devices are built around the concept of mobility and addressing the needs and concerns in making the best mobile device. They aren't built to be the best at web design, media manipulation, high-end gaming, distributed computing, programming, or any other task upon which productivity demands an input method other than a multitouch screen. Until or unless that changes, they remain almost exclusively devices for consumption, not creation.
The PC as we know it may find its role shifting from the "do everything" device to the device we make things with, but that doesn't mean its a dying market.
Will the battery drain in real time too?Can I just point out that the device I'm typing this on fits in my pocket and can encode ~13mbps h264 1080p video in real time?