In-game observation (Battlefield 3)

[Popehappycat]

Just curious about something and hopefully somebody a little more tech savvy than I can explain it for me.

I've always been more of a RTS fan and usually stuck to the single player/campaign portions of the games I bought. I recently bought Battlefield 3, and the real glory of this game is the multiplayer portion obviously. I'm fairly decent at the game and enjoy it considerably, but I've noticed something that leaves me puzzled. I realize that anything played online, especially something as fast paced as a FPS like BF3 is going to have it's quirky moments.

My question is this:
Often times, people will come around a corner and kill me instantly. Sometimes even firing as they round the corner. I realize that this is how it looks from MY perspective (and I know they're not cheating), and in actuality I'm just "lagging" behind in the action. It seems as if the other players (possibly most) are seeing things slightly quicker than I am, like I'm experiencing a very slight delay. As in, I come around a corner and BANG, I'm instantly dead. However, in reality, they see it as me coming around the corner, they stop, take a bead and fire and then get a normal kill on me, which all happens relatively quickly anyways, but nowhere near as INSTANT as it appears to me. I guess my point is, I never seem to be able to get the drop on people, as they are able to (again, from my perspective) react instantly. It's also evident whenever I gun from a machine gun turret on a tank or IFV, or even use the main gun on a tank. I'm putting rounds, or even shells into a person and it's hard as hell for me to get the kill. And if they're moving, forget it. I realize I need to lead them, and I do...but it seems way more difficult than it should compared to the 2 shot kills I get from other players. Almost as if where *I'M* seeing they are isn't really where they are. If that makes sense. I also noticed this in Command and Conquer Renegade (if anybody remembers that game, I frigg'n loved it) with the Orcas. I couldn't kill anything with the maching gun (which like all the guns in the game had no bullet drop and apparently sped at the speed of light), while others could fly by and wipe out an entire time in one pass.

So, I wonder, what causes this? Is it my connection, their connection, my PC or maybe even my graphics card not being able to render the action as quickly as it's taking place (sorry if that part is a dumb question). Most of the servers I play on are in the sub 100ms ping range, and since they've added the ability to see other individual players' ping, they all range from as low as 3 to maybe sometimes 200-ish or so.

Looking for a detailed explanation if possible, and more importantly anything I can do to maybe alleviate the problem, if indeed, it is an issue that can be resolved. Maybe everybody experiences it, I don't know.

If it matters, Win7 64
GTX 260's in SLI (suboptimal, but it's above their minimum recommended and I get 60 FPS)
I have ADSL through Bellsouth on their 3 meg speed plan

Look forward to other with similar experiences, solutions or explanations. Thanks in advance.

 

[Kalmah]

I'm by far not a professional at this... but I recall having this same feeling when I first started playing FPS games years ago.

Rule of thumb, this is probably obvious but I feel it needs to be pointed out. It's kill or be killed. Which boils down to this: if you aren't faster/smarter than the other player, then you are the one walking away dead.

So how do you be faster/smarter than the other player? You both are walking up to a corner of a building with no idea what's around the corner.

The answer is pretty much this in my opinion: you round each and every corner already shooting or on the verge of shooting. You already have your scope up if necessary. You treat every corner as if having an enemy behind it. If your scope is already up, then they are waiting for their scope-up animation while you are already shooting.

The other explanation that I find a lot is that the other person is camping that location. They found a spot on the map that gives them an advantage. From my experience this is a form of meta-gaming. You've had to have played that map enough times to know where the camping locations are at.

I'm not the greatest FPS player and maybe I can be corrected by somebody. But the key point that I've found to be the most helpful is to always anticipate something happening before it happens. (running around a new corner, scope up before you are around it. etc...)

Watch youtube videos of counterstrike matches. I think you'll learn something.

EDIT: oh, and also do a youtube search on twitch reflexes. People practice this. Another point to point out is to take into consideration of how your mouse is set up. Your mouse resolution could be giving you a HUGE disadvantage.

While in game, zoom with a scope and watch how your crosshare moves as you slowly move the mouse. Is it skipping pixels? You don't want it to be. I believe the solution to this is to go into your device manager and find the place where you can turn your mouse acceleration off completely. (I believe it's a slider) This causes pixel skipping. You want raw data straight from mouse to game. Not Windows skipping pixels to make it appear as your mouse is moving faster. Then once done this, turn the sensitivity up for the mouse in-game. You'll have to play with this a lot until you find your comfort zone. And even then, your comfort zone might not be optimal. Maybe setting the mouse faster or slower than your comfort zone then pushing your own skill-level with practice up to make this new harder setting your comfort level is the key.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Might be packet loss. You should ask people on the server to tell you what your ping is also.

Could also be strats. Need to adjust them for the situation. Keep the gun at head level if you can when rounding corners as mentioned above. Less mouse tracking. Awareness is a big thing. Look on your radar and use the info available to access what might be going on. If I see some red dots I'll see if teammates are nearby. If I see one round a corner and get dropped, I'll know there's a baddy on that side or nearby. If I don't see a teammate but I see a kill message on the screen then I'll know something is up and I'll move cautiously into the area or I'll look for a wall to hug as I round a corner. Or sometimes I'll guess and try to line up a shot to sort of pre-fire.

 

[Kalmah]

That's another good point that was pointed out above. Always be aware of the map. Where enemies are spotted, which ones are killed, watch where your team-mates are running. Move strategically with your team mates. If they are all running to a single location there is probably a reason. If you follow them exactly though then you might be part of an ambush. Put yourself in a position to help them. Take a different direction but be aware of their presence. LISTEN FOR FIRE. If they get spotted first, you are in the clear to shoot because you aren't the one being looked at.

If you can get your mind in a strategic 'zone' where you are aware of everything going on you are going to win. You'll know when you're in that zone because you are kicking ass.

It may very well be a problem with server connection and such. ping. I use to push blame on that. What appears to be the enemy seeing you before you see them is most likely them hearing your shots from earlier, being aware of where the fights are at, enemy movements etc... (they know you are rounding that corner because they know that's the most logical place for you to move to after what was just occuring)

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Might be packet loss. You should ask people on the server to tell you what your ping is also.

Could also be strats. Need to adjust them for the situation. Keep the gun at head level if you can when rounding corners as mentioned above. Less mouse tracking. Awareness is a big thing. Look on your radar and use the info available to access what might be going on. If I see some red dots I'll see if teammates are nearby. If I see one round a corner and get dropped, I'll know there's a baddy on that side or nearby. If I don't see a teammate but I see a kill message on the screen then I'll know something is up and I'll move cautiously into the area or I'll look for a wall to hug as I round a corner. Or sometimes I'll guess and try to line up a shot to sort of pre-fire.

Edit: Another thing you can do is wait for your squad to spawn on you. But keep in mind the other guy might be doing the same thing.

 

[CottonRabbit]

As has been said, always keep an eye on the minimap. It's like wall hacks. If I'm in an enclosed space and I see a red arrow coming towards me on the minimap, I'll start shooting right before I actually see him. This works in vehicles as well.

Or you can hire a bodyguard.

 

[Popehappycat]

I agree with all of you, yet I don't think my problem is an issue of awareness.

As I've said, I play pretty decently and I keep my map maximized for the sole purpose of being able to see what's going on. It just seems to me, it's more off a time delay between what I'm seeing and what's going on. As an example, I don't know how many times I've run between cover, taken some hits and once I'm totally behind my new cover, take a few more (from the shooter that CANNOT possibly hit me from his vantage point anymore) and kill me. I know it's a lag (if that's the correct word to use in this instance) thing, I was hit and killed when I was exposed, except on my end, it's telling me I was hit when I was behind cover. It's been like this since I've started playing, so I'm used to it and have adapted, but it's just annoying and if there's ANYTHING I can do to help level the field a bit, that's what I'm looking for. Unless, of course, this is happening to everybody.

So far the only tech related advice suggested it might be packet loss. If that's the case, is there anything else I can check to verify (besides asking in game, which I can't do at the moment because Origin is down for B2K release) and more importantly, do to fix it?

Thanks for the replies thus far.

 

[Childs]

There is actually quite a bit of lag. I run into this all the time. And now that you can see your ping to other players, you'll instances where high ping players are getting the benefit of the doubt when it comes to hit detection. There is apparently some sort of slider that might help when it comes to this, but I havent looked into it yet.

But its also smart to pre fire around corners, especially if you see someone on the radar or can hear them. Sometimes you just know when someone is camping a spot.

 

[llee]

Hit registration is client-side. That means that players can still kill you even if you are behind cover because they see your position differently.

 

[Kalmah]

I was only able to play BF3 during beta but did notice a lot of what you just described occurring. (being killed AFTER already behind cover) This might just be the way that the game netcode is programmed. (many games use some kind of lag-prediction where the server assumes you are going in a direction while it's waiting on your packets).

It could be happening to everybody. I can't verify.

You might already be doing this, but I'd suggest listing your servers in order of ping and manually connecting to the ones that are 20ms or less instead of the auto-matching.

You might also want to consider your connection. If you are using wireless use wired if you can. Typically if you are on wireless it is secured, therefor there is encryption/decryption happening at both ends which is affecting your ping. Wireless has to do double-duty over wired just because of the way that it works anyways.

If I was to make a guess though, it would be that it's actually the server itself with BF3's netcode causing the issue. Trying several different servers. Do you have any other FPS multiplayer games to experiment with? From my experience, Team Fortress 2(or anything by Valve for that matter) seems to have the best netcode. I'd try playing that for a while and see if you are experiencing the same problems maybe?

 

[ViviTheMage]

There are some pretty obvious camping spots in some maps, so i'll generally turn a corner shooting. How else am I going to get those 5-30 people on metro standing in the corner.

 

[NTAC]

Probably already mentioned, but if you fire your weapon and you don't have a suppressor on it then your position will be displayed on the mini map for a short while, so that could be very well what you are seeing.

Also sometimes you'll notice those airborne flying saucer like drones, those guys can spot you as well.

But yeah once you unlock a suppressor make sure you slap it on your gun, it will help a lot in hiding your position. This is a must for a sniper.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Might want to add a filter for the server browser. There should be an option to list only servers with a ping < 100 or something.

 

[Alienwho]

Some other considerations:

Your weapon. It sounds like most of these experiences you're talking about happen at short to medium range. Some weapons are better suited for this. Pay close attention to the weapons the people are using when they kill you. If they are using short range weapons and you are using a long range weapon they will probably have the benefit. The shorter range weapons will generally zoom in faster and allow for quicker trigger pulls. This brings up another point:

Your scope vs their scope. In these close range engagements do you have a 4x scope and are they using a HOLO or RDS? Well their weapons will zoom in faster than yours allowing them to let the bullets fly before you're even zoomed in. That's if they are even zooming in at all. In a lot of my close engagements I just hip shot it with great success. It only takes a few bullets to kill a person in this game so whoever shoots first will almost always win. That is unless...

You are more accurate. Head shots kill faster than body shots which kill faster than legs. Even if you start shooting first and you're hitting the guy in the chest but he's aiming for your face and lands a shot, he's probably going to win.

Also, you have a pretty weak pipe, so I would assume you have a decent amount of lag and/or packet loss compared to other players.

There are also other intangibles. The little nuances of the game that you don't understand until you've put a few dozen hours into it. Look at the ranks of the people who are killing you. If you're around level 10 or 15 and getting owned by level 25 guys I wouldn't worry too much about it because experience really counts in this game.

I was like you when I first started playing. I felt like a bullet absorber and like I couldn't catch a break. I've got about 30 hours of play time in now and I feel like I'm walking away from those one on one quick twitch fights as the victor the majority of the time. My favorite thing these days is tricking people. Most of the time they will gung ho it for a face to face shoot till you die match. I've started to get tricky in leading them around rocks/buildings whatever and disappearing and confusing them and doubling around for a knife kill.

 

[mooncancook]

I totally know how you feel. When I started I'm always like a step slow, so even when I face to face with an enemy and have to gun pointed at him quicker, I'm always the one that got killed.

At first I always join quick matches, and most of the time I was so over-matched and I ended up with terrible k/d ratio and really frustrated me. Then I decided to join games by searching server browser and only join the games with low ping. Pick noob friendly servers if you are low level. Join Metro Station if you need to gain exp points and improve stats quickly. Limit yourself by playing only a couple maps that you feel more comfortable and get familiar with them. Join the 24/7 if you have to. Once you get better and more unlocks, try a new map. There are lots players that are really good, but it shouldn't be too hard to be average, which is still a lot of fun.

 

[manimal]

There are some pretty obvious camping spots in some maps, so i'll generally turn a corner shooting. How else am I going to get those 5-30 people on metro standing in the corner.

I cant stop playing 32x32 metro spamfest with a twist!

 

[videogames101]

So, I wonder, what causes this? Is it my connection, their connection, my PC or maybe even my graphics card not being able to render the action as quickly as it's taking place (sorry if that part is a dumb question). Most of the servers I play on are in the sub 100ms ping range, and since they've added the ability to see other individual players' ping, they all range from as low as 3 to maybe sometimes 200-ish or so.

Looking for a detailed explanation if possible, and more importantly anything I can do to maybe alleviate the problem, if indeed, it is an issue that can be resolved. Maybe everybody experiences it, I don't know.

I play Battlefield 3 and other FPS's in competitive formats so I may have a bit of insight for you, although if I'm wrong on any count someone please correct me.

There are two common potential sources for your problem.

First, let's explore the technical reasons why you might be having this negative experience. To begin you have to understand that there is and always will be a delay between your client, the server, and your opponent's client. I like to just use examples here, in this case imagine a generic FPS game without any compensation for lag or delay. Imagine you move around a corner and find some other player waiting for you. You send your movement to the server, the server sends that data to the other player. During the time those transmissions are taking place (usually <150ms) the other player doesn't know you've moved around the corner. However, as you move around the corner you see him immediately, because his position hasn't changed, so you aren't waiting on a server transmission to let you know he's there. This means you can see him, but he still can't see you during those few milliseconds. This concept is known in gaming as "attacker's advantage".

Now this is actually a big deal is quite a few FPS's. CS:1.6, for example has a large attacker's advantage. However it's pretty clear that this kind of advantage is undesirable. So in order to make a more seamless experience for players, games use different techniques to hide this delay. The most common method is simply to use player's movement to predict where they will be in the future. In this way, as you start move around the corner, the server predicts you will continue to move around the corner and reports this to the other client's. Now we've eliminated our "attacker's advantage" problem. But now a new problem arises, what if you stop moving around the corner just before you enter the other player's view? The server predicts you'll continue moving out into the open, but in reality you stopped 150ms(or w/e) beforehand. Now we have an issue where your opponent sees your model and can shoot at it despite the fact that you are not actually there. It's likely BF3 compensates with something similar to this, but I can't actually say for sure. Depending on the actual configuration, this "attacker's advantage" could be a small part of your problem. There is now a network slider in the options menu that allows you to reduce network latency at the cost of some visual errors, which indicates to me some sort of prediction/confirmation system is being used. I'd try reducing this slider to minimum latency to see if it helps at all. (For more information using the source engine specifically check out this article: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking)

-While on the subject however, it brings up another topic, hit detection. Every player complains about hit detection, but it's a hard thing to get right. To focus on Battlefield 3 specifically, it uses what we call "client-side" hit detection. This simply means that each user's client reports whether or not your bullet's are hitting opponents based on the last snapshots the server has given you. Ever thought you had just gotten behind cover, only to die afterwards? This is one result of using client-side detection. It makes a seamless experience for each shooter by insuring that if they shoot at what they see will actually get hits, but it can lead to some odd experiences on the receiving end.

-The other common technical source of this phenomena is vsync. While it eliminates tearing, it can increase visual and input delay. Turn if off if you have it on.

Second, you could just be getting outplayed. There are a multitude of possibilities here. More likely than not, many of these cases occur when they see you on their minimap, so they know you're there before they even move around the corner making you an easy target. Solution, always glance at your minimap. Every 2 or 3 seconds, glance down. Just do it, it will save your life. Pure reaction time is also a possible source. They might simply have a faster (twitch/aim)/fire reaction than you. You can only improve this with practice, unfortunately.

If you'd like we could play a few games together and see if we can't figure out which issue your experiencing, or if it's a combination of both, pm me if interested.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Surprised no one has mentioned sound (that I could see anyway). Positional sound is a huge advantage. Knowing where the bullets are coming from, hear someone running to your rear right... It helps immensely. I had actually forgotten how important this was. I used to rely on it more than my sight when playing CS Beta 7.1, CSR 1.0,1.1, etc.. I was a lot more competitive and a heck of a lot better player then too. However, these last 3-4 years I haven't been using my 5.1 setup due to space constraints. But... I recently just picked up some G930s and I have to say just how awesome these are. Anyway, just wanted to mention that sound might have a lot to do with someone coming around the corner firing.

 

[Popehappycat]

I play Battlefield 3 and other FPS's in competitive formats so I may have a bit of insight for you, although if I'm wrong on any count someone please correct me.

There are two common potential sources for your problem.

First, let's explore the technical reasons why you might be having this negative experience. To begin you have to understand that there is and always will be a delay between your client, the server, and your opponent's client. I like to just use examples here, in this case imagine a generic FPS game without any compensation for lag or delay. Imagine you move around a corner and find some other player waiting for you. You send your movement to the server, the server sends that data to the other player. During the time those transmissions are taking place (usually <150ms) the other player doesn't know you've moved around the corner. However, as you move around the corner you see him immediately, because his position hasn't changed, so you aren't waiting on a server transmission to let you know he's there. This means you can see him, but he still can't see you during those few milliseconds. This concept is known in gaming as "attacker's advantage".

Now this is actually a big deal is quite a few FPS's. CS:1.6, for example has a large attacker's advantage. However it's pretty clear that this kind of advantage is undesirable. So in order to make a more seamless experience for players, games use different techniques to hide this delay. The most common method is simply to use player's movement to predict where they will be in the future. In this way, as you start move around the corner, the server predicts you will continue to move around the corner and reports this to the other client's. Now we've eliminated our "attacker's advantage" problem. But now a new problem arises, what if you stop moving around the corner just before you enter the other player's view? The server predicts you'll continue moving out into the open, but in reality you stopped 150ms(or w/e) beforehand. Now we have an issue where your opponent sees your model and can shoot at it despite the fact that you are not actually there. It's likely BF3 compensates with something similar to this, but I can't actually say for sure. Depending on the actual configuration, this "attacker's advantage" could be a small part of your problem. There is now a network slider in the options menu that allows you to reduce network latency at the cost of some visual errors, which indicates to me some sort of prediction/confirmation system is being used. I'd try reducing this slider to minimum latency to see if it helps at all. (For more information using the source engine specifically check out this article: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking)

-While on the subject however, it brings up another topic, hit detection. Every player complains about hit detection, but it's a hard thing to get right. To focus on Battlefield 3 specifically, it uses what we call "client-side" hit detection. This simply means that each user's client reports whether or not your bullet's are hitting opponents based on the last snapshots the server has given you. Ever thought you had just gotten behind cover, only to die afterwards? This is one result of using client-side detection. It makes a seamless experience for each shooter by insuring that if they shoot at what they see will actually get hits, but it can lead to some odd experiences on the receiving end.

-The other common technical source of this phenomena is vsync. While it eliminates tearing, it can increase visual and input delay. Turn if off if you have it on.

Second, you could just be getting outplayed. There are a multitude of possibilities here. More likely than not, many of these cases occur when they see you on their minimap, so they know you're there before they even move around the corner making you an easy target. Solution, always glance at your minimap. Every 2 or 3 seconds, glance down. Just do it, it will save your life. Pure reaction time is also a possible source. They might simply have a faster (twitch/aim)/fire reaction than you. You can only improve this with practice, unfortunately.

If you'd like we could play a few games together and see if we can't figure out which issue your experiencing, or if it's a combination of both, pm me if interested.

Thanks very much to you and the other poster that mentioned the slider in the options. I lowered it and it seems to have helped with the issues I've been describing! Extra thanks to you for taking the time to explain all that you did, the information was informative. Thanks to all who have replied!

Soldier name is the same as this one, I play on PC obviously.

 

[drizek]

I used to have this problem when I first started playing Call of Duty. I'd get shot out of nowhere (seemingly). It just takes practice. Minimap, audio, know your maps. Watch your back, stick with your squad, take corners with a scope and, if in doubt, throw a nade.

 

[sigurros81]

There are a lot of good suggestions here, and it really comes down to being aware of your surroundings. Using me as an example: When I first got BF3, my KDR was around .9, mostly because I did not know the maps or the different hiding spots or various strategies people use for each map. But the more I play, the more I know the map and know where the enemies typically come from, and now my KDR for each game averages anywhere from 1.7 to 2.

B2K came out last night, and I never played BF2 so these maps are completely new to me. I spent a few hours playing it, and once again my average KDR was anywhere from 1 to 1.5, so it went down. Honestly, just have to keep playing and practicing.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

I was going to mention sound also.

My two keys to dominating in any FPS are sound, and the lowest mouse sensitivity you can use and still do a 180.

I remember when I had the low sensitivity epiphany in COD. You are more accurate, and I find it's far easier to build muscle memory when you use large mouse motions vs. someone who's using claw style mouse control.

Anyone who's played me on the AT BF3 server may have noticed that I can be ridiculous... lol

 

[ArchAngel777]

I am not trying to make excuses with this next post. Fact is some players have superior hand eye coordination, others can outsmart me, others know the map better and others have better eye sight. But, the fact remains that a K/D ratio is meaningless in a game like BF3. Some people push for objectives and their death count suffers. That is part of the game. Others sit in a bush waiting for someone to cap a flag and ambush them and rinse repeat between multiple 'hiding' spots. Others squad up and have you paying attention to their buddy while they flank and knife you. So many variables that a K/D ratio should in no way reflect your skill (unless you are something totally crazy like 1:5) in a game like BF3.

Edit ** In a death match scenario where everyone have access to the same weapons and unlocks and everyone for themselves, this where your K/D actually means something. Of course, that still has some variables too, but they are minimal.

 

[Alienwho]

I am not trying to make excuses with this next post. Fact is some players have superior hand eye coordination, others can outsmart me, others know the map better and others have better eye sight. But, the fact remains that a K/D ratio is meaningless in a game like BF3. Some people push for objectives and their death count suffers. That is part of the game. Others sit in a bush waiting for someone to cap a flag and ambush them and rinse repeat between multiple 'hiding' spots. Others squad up and have you paying attention to their buddy while they flank and knife you. So many variables that a K/D ratio should in no way reflect your skill (unless you are something totally crazy like 1:5) in a game like BF3.

Edit ** In a death match scenario where everyone have access to the same weapons and unlocks and everyone for themselves, this where your K/D actually means something. Of course, that still has some variables too, but they are minimal.

I agree with this completely. I don't give two shits about my K/D ratio. In fact I often play the role of 'Suicide Medic' where I will do nothing but distribute med kits and revive people by any means necessary. In these games I usually have a a ton of deaths and few kills but I also probably have more points than anybody else on the team. Playing the objective is ten times more fun than worrying about K/D ratio stats.

Yeah, my K/D ratio is like 1:1, don't care. My weapon accuracy is like 6%, I also don't care because I lay down a ton of suppressing fire and other stuff. With starcraft 2 I was too worried about my stats to actually have fun and enjoy the game. I'm not making that same mistake twice.

 

[sigurros81]

I am not trying to make excuses with this next post. Fact is some players have superior hand eye coordination, others can outsmart me, others know the map better and others have better eye sight. But, the fact remains that a K/D ratio is meaningless in a game like BF3. Some people push for objectives and their death count suffers. That is part of the game. Others sit in a bush waiting for someone to cap a flag and ambush them and rinse repeat between multiple 'hiding' spots. Others squad up and have you paying attention to their buddy while they flank and knife you. So many variables that a K/D ratio should in no way reflect your skill (unless you are something totally crazy like 1:5) in a game like BF3.

Edit ** In a death match scenario where everyone have access to the same weapons and unlocks and everyone for themselves, this where your K/D actually means something. Of course, that still has some variables too, but they are minimal.

By your argument, no stats really matter because there are too many variables to take into consideration. I guess the point is, KDR is one of the factor, probably the most obvious of all other stats, on how much a person is contributing to the game. And most importantly, it addresses what the original poster is pondering about.

Obviously if you see a guy with high KDR but all he plays is a sniper, that tells a diferent story than a guy with high KDR that plays a medic or engineer.

I think it'd be cool if they add a stats for like how many base captures does each player achieve per minute or per 5 minutes? But again, on the flip side to that is if I'm with a squad capturing a point, I normally don't stay to cap but go hide in an area in case enemies show up trying to retake the position, so I don't get the cap points but again, I am in the area helping defend the capture point.