Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Originally posted by: Aimster
The Arab majority cities do not have sirens while all the other cities do?
I heard the same claim on the news last night, although it was simply that the sirens were not being sounded, not that the cities didn't have one. I was shocked of course, but then they interviewed an Israeli Arab who just lost two children to a Hezbollah rocket attack, and he praised Hezbollah and blamed Israel. Suddenly, I just didn't care about the damn sirens.
Originally posted by: Finality
Originally posted by: Aimster How are women in the M.E oppressed besides in Iran and SA? The M.E is far bigger than Iran and SA. You bring up religion when Israel is in itself a religious state.
Your statement was correct when you said the entire middle east because Israel is part of the middle east, but you were not including israel in that equation.
You blabber on about how Arab states do not allow non-Arabs to become citizens yet you defend Israel. ok...
Arabs sit on their ass and don't do anything. Their countries are flooded with workers who are not Arab. Giving them citizenship would make the Arab the minority or very close to it.
Yet you sit here and defend an Israel JEWISH state. Arabs are doing the exact same thing. Defending their identity. So you bring it up as a fault?
Womens rights in Arab countries are you joking?
Read numerous court rulings, husbands can beat their wives to discipline them. In a court of law a womans word is worth half of a mans word. I could go on but the list just keeps on dragging.
Its not limited to just SA or Iran its widespread in the ENTIRE Middle East. Women have no rights in the arab world they are just a 3rd class of society.
Originally posted by: Aisengard
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Somebody put a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world pretty much without their say so. That has caused a lot of trouble. Lucky, I guess, for us we killed all the Indians.
Israel would have been formed even without other countries interfering. There were hundreds of thousands of jews living in that region before Israel was formed and Israel was formed because of the large amount of violence between jews and arabs in that region. If Britain (or whoever) hadn't created Israel then the region would have descended into civil war and a jewish state would probably have formed anyways.
No, you got it backwards; Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace until Zionists started a movement to create their own religious state in 1900?s.
Sigh.
Originally posted by: esskay33
Originally posted by: Aimster
so 19% of Israel's population doesn't have the right to vote because they are Arab?
It's like the U.S 50+ years ago.
Saudi Arabia if they really wanted to.. I guess they could give every Arab inside Israel $1,000,000. That would force them to move away from the poorer neighborhoods into the richer Jewish neighborhoods. That would cause a big mess.
Are you serious? They all have the right to vote.
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Somebody put a Jewish state in the middle of the Islamic world pretty much without their say so. That has caused a lot of trouble. Lucky, I guess, for us we killed all the Indians.
Originally posted by: Aimster
The Arab majority cities do not have sirens while all the other cities do?
This brings me to this..
Do Arabs have the same rights as Jews inside Israel?
Are any Arab leaders in power inside Israel?
I know Arabs serve in the Israeli military, right?
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Finality
Originally posted by: Aimster How are women in the M.E oppressed besides in Iran and SA? The M.E is far bigger than Iran and SA. You bring up religion when Israel is in itself a religious state.
Your statement was correct when you said the entire middle east because Israel is part of the middle east, but you were not including israel in that equation.
You blabber on about how Arab states do not allow non-Arabs to become citizens yet you defend Israel. ok...
Arabs sit on their ass and don't do anything. Their countries are flooded with workers who are not Arab. Giving them citizenship would make the Arab the minority or very close to it.
Yet you sit here and defend an Israel JEWISH state. Arabs are doing the exact same thing. Defending their identity. So you bring it up as a fault?
Womens rights in Arab countries are you joking?
Read numerous court rulings, husbands can beat their wives to discipline them. In a court of law a womans word is worth half of a mans word. I could go on but the list just keeps on dragging.
Its not limited to just SA or Iran its widespread in the ENTIRE Middle East. Women have no rights in the arab world they are just a 3rd class of society.
Proof?
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Arab countries NEVER give citizenship to non Arabs and ANY non arab is a second class citizen. Arabs treat everyone badly
yup, oppression is bad... except when arabs do it.
myths and facts on the treatment of jews in arab countries
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/TreatmentofJews.html
myths and facts on the human rights on the arabs in israel
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths2/HumanrightsIsrael.html
considering the situation they are treated far better than they would be by any other nation in that area. let alone most nations in general.
either aimster is trolling or woefully ignorant when he can't get a basic fact right like if arab israelis have the right to vote i'm pretty sure he'se been in other threads where this has been discussed, so either he's ignoring the truth or just being a tool.
Originally posted by: Doboji
Arabs have equal rights within Israel, with the exception that they are not (all) permitted to server in the IDF. Bedouins and Druze do serve, but the Palestinian-Israeli-Arabs do not.
However having said that there is a fair amount of discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society.
-Max
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Arabs have equal rights within Israel, with the exception that they are not (all) permitted to server in the IDF. Bedouins and Druze do serve, but the Palestinian-Israeli-Arabs do not.
However having said that there is a fair amount of discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society.
-Max
Didn?t you just contradict yourself? Arabs have equal rights within Israel ~ but Arabs don?t have equal rights
Anyway, your list of "exceptions" is not complete, like residence and citizenship rights or land sale and lease rights for example ~ and there are more. But I'm sure you can find out the rest of "exceptions" yourself
No, you are wrong ~ US Department of State released a Human Rights report on March 8th, 2006 which says this: ?Approximately 93 percent of land in the country is public domain, the majority of which is owned by the state, with approximately 12.5 percent owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). All public lands and that owned by the JNF are administered by the governmental body, the Israel Lands Administration (ILA). By law public land may only be leased, and the JNF's statutes prohibit land sale or lease to non-Jews.?Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Arabs have equal rights within Israel, with the exception that they are not (all) permitted to server in the IDF. Bedouins and Druze do serve, but the Palestinian-Israeli-Arabs do not.
However having said that there is a fair amount of discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society.
-Max
Didn?t you just contradict yourself? Arabs have equal rights within Israel ~ but Arabs don?t have equal rights
Anyway, your list of "exceptions" is not complete, like residence and citizenship rights or land sale and lease rights for example ~ and there are more. But I'm sure you can find out the rest of "exceptions" yourself
Actually thats incorrect... anyone can lease land in Israel,
...and the residence and citzenship rights for arab-israelis are also equal.
Originally posted by: Siwy
No, you are wrong ~ US Department of State released a Human Rights report on March 8th, 2006 which says this: ?Approximately 93 percent of land in the country is public domain, the majority of which is owned by the state, with approximately 12.5 percent owned by the Jewish National Fund (JNF). All public lands and that owned by the JNF are administered by the governmental body, the Israel Lands Administration (ILA). By law public land may only be leased, and the JNF's statutes prohibit land sale or lease to non-Jews.?Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Siwy
Originally posted by: Doboji
Arabs have equal rights within Israel, with the exception that they are not (all) permitted to server in the IDF. Bedouins and Druze do serve, but the Palestinian-Israeli-Arabs do not.
However having said that there is a fair amount of discrimination against Arabs in Israeli society.
-Max
Didn?t you just contradict yourself? Arabs have equal rights within Israel ~ but Arabs don?t have equal rights
Anyway, your list of "exceptions" is not complete, like residence and citizenship rights or land sale and lease rights for example ~ and there are more. But I'm sure you can find out the rest of "exceptions" yourself
Actually thats incorrect... anyone can lease land in Israel,
...and the residence and citzenship rights for arab-israelis are also equal.
Wrong once again ~ from the same source: ?The 2003 Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law bars Palestinians from the occupied territories from acquiring residence or citizenship rights through marriage to Israelis or to Palestinian residents of Jerusalem. In July the Knesset extended the law until March 2006 and amended it so that Palestinian men aged 35 and older and women aged 25 and older were eligible for Israeli citizenship through family unification. Advocacy groups claimed that, despite the amendment, the law discriminated against Arab citizens and residents?
You can dance around this argument as much as you want, it does not change the fact that Israeli-Arab, who is more likely to marry Palestinian Arab than Russian Jew, has no right to live with the spouse in Israel, hence the discrimination of Israeli-Arabs.Originally posted by: Doboji
as for your second argument, you are talking about non-citizens rights to become citizens.. Not about the rights of Israeli-Arab citzens...
an accurate explanation of the discrimination that does exist as far as leases... it applies to land which is owned by the Jewish National Fund
***
There are formal restrictions on the lease of JNF land. Under its charter the purpose of the JNF was to purchase land for the settlement of Jews, and this has been interpreted to mean that JNF land should not be leased, at least on a long-term basis, to non-Jews.
Some have argued that despite the private nature of JNF land, it is now administered by a government agency and thus should be leased on an exactly equal basis to both Jewish and Arab Israelis. Such a policy, however, would violate the very agreement which placed JNF lands under government administration.
Official restrictions aside, in practice JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use. To cite one example of the former, JNF-owned land in the Besor Valley (Wadi Shallaleh) near Kibbutz Re'em has been leased on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture (The Negev Bedouin and Livestock Raising, Berg Publishers Ltd., 1994, p. 28, 36, 38).
Arab citizens of Israel have also leased JNF-owned land for housing purposes via a "legal device" used to evade the restrictions against such long-term use: The land in question is traded to the government so that it can be leased out and the JNF receives other land in return.
While such swaps have clearly taken place, sometimes under threat of court action, it is not known how much land originally belonging to the JNF has been leased to Arabs in this way.
Many countries prevent non-citizens from owning land.Originally posted by: Siwy
You can dance around this argument as much as you want, it does not change the fact that Israeli-Arab, who is more likely to marry Palestinian Arab than Russian Jew, has no right to live with the spouse in Israel, hence the discrimination of Israeli-Arabs.Originally posted by: Doboji
as for your second argument, you are talking about non-citizens rights to become citizens.. Not about the rights of Israeli-Arab citzens...
an accurate explanation of the discrimination that does exist as far as leases... it applies to land which is owned by the Jewish National Fund
***
There are formal restrictions on the lease of JNF land. Under its charter the purpose of the JNF was to purchase land for the settlement of Jews, and this has been interpreted to mean that JNF land should not be leased, at least on a long-term basis, to non-Jews.
Some have argued that despite the private nature of JNF land, it is now administered by a government agency and thus should be leased on an exactly equal basis to both Jewish and Arab Israelis. Such a policy, however, would violate the very agreement which placed JNF lands under government administration.
Official restrictions aside, in practice JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use. To cite one example of the former, JNF-owned land in the Besor Valley (Wadi Shallaleh) near Kibbutz Re'em has been leased on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture (The Negev Bedouin and Livestock Raising, Berg Publishers Ltd., 1994, p. 28, 36, 38).
Arab citizens of Israel have also leased JNF-owned land for housing purposes via a "legal device" used to evade the restrictions against such long-term use: The land in question is traded to the government so that it can be leased out and the JNF receives other land in return.
While such swaps have clearly taken place, sometimes under threat of court action, it is not known how much land originally belonging to the JNF has been leased to Arabs in this way.
I?m glad we finally agree that Arabs don?t have the same rights to lease or purchase the land as Jews.
Originally posted by: Siwy
You can dance around this argument as much as you want, it does not change the fact that Israeli-Arab, who is more likely to marry Palestinian Arab than Russian Jew, has no right to live with the spouse in Israel, hence the discrimination of Israeli-Arabs.Originally posted by: Doboji
as for your second argument, you are talking about non-citizens rights to become citizens.. Not about the rights of Israeli-Arab citzens...
an accurate explanation of the discrimination that does exist as far as leases... it applies to land which is owned by the Jewish National Fund
***
There are formal restrictions on the lease of JNF land. Under its charter the purpose of the JNF was to purchase land for the settlement of Jews, and this has been interpreted to mean that JNF land should not be leased, at least on a long-term basis, to non-Jews.
Some have argued that despite the private nature of JNF land, it is now administered by a government agency and thus should be leased on an exactly equal basis to both Jewish and Arab Israelis. Such a policy, however, would violate the very agreement which placed JNF lands under government administration.
Official restrictions aside, in practice JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use. To cite one example of the former, JNF-owned land in the Besor Valley (Wadi Shallaleh) near Kibbutz Re'em has been leased on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture (The Negev Bedouin and Livestock Raising, Berg Publishers Ltd., 1994, p. 28, 36, 38).
Arab citizens of Israel have also leased JNF-owned land for housing purposes via a "legal device" used to evade the restrictions against such long-term use: The land in question is traded to the government so that it can be leased out and the JNF receives other land in return.
While such swaps have clearly taken place, sometimes under threat of court action, it is not known how much land originally belonging to the JNF has been leased to Arabs in this way.
I?m glad we finally agree that Arabs don?t have the same rights to lease or purchase the land as Jews.
It has everything to do with citizens not being able to live with their families because of their religion.Originally posted by: Doboji
Originally posted by: Siwy
You can dance around this argument as much as you want, it does not change the fact that Israeli-Arab, who is more likely to marry Palestinian Arab than Russian Jew, has no right to live with the spouse in Israel, hence the discrimination of Israeli-Arabs.Originally posted by: Doboji
as for your second argument, you are talking about non-citizens rights to become citizens.. Not about the rights of Israeli-Arab citzens...
an accurate explanation of the discrimination that does exist as far as leases... it applies to land which is owned by the Jewish National Fund
***
There are formal restrictions on the lease of JNF land. Under its charter the purpose of the JNF was to purchase land for the settlement of Jews, and this has been interpreted to mean that JNF land should not be leased, at least on a long-term basis, to non-Jews.
Some have argued that despite the private nature of JNF land, it is now administered by a government agency and thus should be leased on an exactly equal basis to both Jewish and Arab Israelis. Such a policy, however, would violate the very agreement which placed JNF lands under government administration.
Official restrictions aside, in practice JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use. To cite one example of the former, JNF-owned land in the Besor Valley (Wadi Shallaleh) near Kibbutz Re'em has been leased on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture (The Negev Bedouin and Livestock Raising, Berg Publishers Ltd., 1994, p. 28, 36, 38).
Arab citizens of Israel have also leased JNF-owned land for housing purposes via a "legal device" used to evade the restrictions against such long-term use: The land in question is traded to the government so that it can be leased out and the JNF receives other land in return.
While such swaps have clearly taken place, sometimes under threat of court action, it is not known how much land originally belonging to the JNF has been leased to Arabs in this way.
I?m glad we finally agree that Arabs don?t have the same rights to lease or purchase the land as Jews.
1) I'm not dancing around anything here, this issue is regarding non-citizens... it has nothing to do with citizens, and therefore has nothing to do with the discussion at hand... The question at hand is do Israeli-Arabs and Israeli-Jews have equal rights in Israel.
2) Don't fcking blanket statement at me... the issue above ONLY CONCERNS LAND LEASING not Land purchasing... and secondly, the land in question is privately held land by a private jewish organization. I do admit that the legal discrimination exists here, and as such makes Israeli-Arab rights and Israeli-Jewish right not equal... but lets not exaggerate the reality here. The inequality exists on paper but not in practice.
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Many countries prevent non-citizens from owning land.Originally posted by: Siwy
You can dance around this argument as much as you want, it does not change the fact that Israeli-Arab, who is more likely to marry Palestinian Arab than Russian Jew, has no right to live with the spouse in Israel, hence the discrimination of Israeli-Arabs.Originally posted by: Doboji
as for your second argument, you are talking about non-citizens rights to become citizens.. Not about the rights of Israeli-Arab citzens...
an accurate explanation of the discrimination that does exist as far as leases... it applies to land which is owned by the Jewish National Fund
***
There are formal restrictions on the lease of JNF land. Under its charter the purpose of the JNF was to purchase land for the settlement of Jews, and this has been interpreted to mean that JNF land should not be leased, at least on a long-term basis, to non-Jews.
Some have argued that despite the private nature of JNF land, it is now administered by a government agency and thus should be leased on an exactly equal basis to both Jewish and Arab Israelis. Such a policy, however, would violate the very agreement which placed JNF lands under government administration.
Official restrictions aside, in practice JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use. To cite one example of the former, JNF-owned land in the Besor Valley (Wadi Shallaleh) near Kibbutz Re'em has been leased on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture (The Negev Bedouin and Livestock Raising, Berg Publishers Ltd., 1994, p. 28, 36, 38).
Arab citizens of Israel have also leased JNF-owned land for housing purposes via a "legal device" used to evade the restrictions against such long-term use: The land in question is traded to the government so that it can be leased out and the JNF receives other land in return.
While such swaps have clearly taken place, sometimes under threat of court action, it is not known how much land originally belonging to the JNF has been leased to Arabs in this way.
I?m glad we finally agree that Arabs don?t have the same rights to lease or purchase the land as Jews.
Originally posted by: Doboji
This is turning into a nuh uh - uh huh argument...
Restrictions on non-jewish non-israelis gaining israeli citizenship has nothing to do with arab-israeli or jewish-israeli equality... certainly we could have discussion about whether it's fair to prevent acquisition of citzenship based on religion... but it has nothing to do with equality within citizenship, a Jordanian Arab can no more acquire citizenship by marrying a jewish israeli than by an arab-israeli.
Any land that is for sale can be bought equally by Arabs and Jews... the issue is concerning the lease of JNF owned land... and in reality Arabs lease this land all the time... worst case scenario they get harassed and are forced to appeal to the courts... which have in every case I've ever heard of, awarded the lease to the Arabs applying for it.
-Max