In MATH we trust

[Mr Pepper]

Medicine, the calendar, our economy, our power grids, our water supplies... etc. are all controlled and governed by the math. The one language all humans across the globe can speak in unity.

Math is simply an organized system by which we can systematically address and handle everyday tasks in life using logic and reason. It seems to be one of the staples of what separates us from the beasts.

So my question is what are the limitations of our mathematical systems? They are all man made, and thus seem to inherit some of our deficiencies, or our limitations. We like to think that we have it all mapped out on paper, but inevitably, something happens or comes along to prove our theories wrong.

For example, the use of infinity in the case of dividing 10 into 3 parts. We end up with 3.33-infinity. Even it we were allowed to use such a number (which doesn't exist) 3 parts of 3.33-infinity would still not equal 10.

I suppose we can just say it's "close enough", but maybe we are barking up the wrong tree all together. Besides a flawed system of units and measures, we live in a world that is not constant, and not suitable for environmentally controlled application of these already flawed units and measures.

Just thinking out loud today..

 

[Leros]

1) it seems to be working so far

2) got a better suggestion?

 

[crt1530]

You put too much faith in your own intelligence.

 

[akubi]

it's a shame what happens when dumb people think too hard

 

[yllus]

That was an interesting block of pseudo-intellectualism.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The problem with alowing a logical construct (math) to become a religion/way of life is that the world is not a logical place and interpreting the world through a strictly logical viewpoint will only doom us to disappointment at best and war at worst.

 

[jwells777]

Perhaps you should spend some time contemplating the proof of 0.99999.....=1. It may help you sleep better at night...

 

[JulesMaximus]

No, I'd say we put just about the right amount of faith in math.

Man, that's a stupid question. They say there's no such thing as a stupid question but really there is. Why do they lie to children in this way?

 

[rocadelpunk]

we already know our mathematical systems are not 'perfect.'

godel proved that.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: crt1530
You put too much faith in your own intelligence.

There is a reason he is stuck at the level of Mr. Pepper and still hasn't graduated to the fake degree level of Dr. Pepper.

 

[Linflas]

I always thought the nice thing about math is that it is concrete reality and requires no faith.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: crt1530
You put too much faith in your own intelligence.

There is a reason he is stuck at the level of Mr. Pepper and still hasn't graduated to the fake degree level of Dr. Pepper.

Nice.

 

[DougK62]

WTF are you talking about with infinity? What you said is completely wrong.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper
Medicine, the calendar, our economy, our power grids, our water supplies... etc. are all controlled and governed by the math. The one language all humans across the globe can speak in unity.

Math is simply an organized system by which we can systematically address and handle everyday tasks in life using logic and reason. It seems to be one of the staples of what separates us from the beasts.

So my question is what are the limitations of our mathematical systems? They are all man made, and thus seem to inherit some of our deficiencies, or our limitations. We like to think that we have it all mapped out on paper, but inevitably, something happens or comes along to prove our theories wrong.

For example, the use of infinity in the case of dividing 10 into 3 parts. We end up with 3.33-infinity. Even it we were allowed to use such a number (which doesn't exist) 3 parts of 3.33-infinity would still not equal 10.

I suppose we can just say it's "close enough", but maybe we are barking up the wrong tree all together. Besides a flawed system of units and measures, we live in a world that is not constant, and not suitable for environmentally controlled application of these already flawed units and measures.

Just thinking out loud today..

I guess you have never heard of fractions and significant digit? First of all, the world is analogue, so no finite measuring system will work to the infini-th precision. That is your whole argument? What exactly are you looking for?

 

[rocadelpunk]

I think the underlying question...although this is stretching his argument.

Is math discovered or invented?

 

[LtPage1]

Originally posted by: yllus
That was an interesting block of pseudo-intellectualism.

No it wasn't.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: DougK62
WTF are you talking about with infinity? What you said is completely wrong.

His "logic":
A) 1 divided by 2 = 0.500000000000 with infinite repeating zeros.
B) The number, 0.500000000000 with infinite repeating zeros, doesn't exist.
C) Thus, 0.500000000000 with infinite repeating zeros * 2 does not equal 1.

That is rock solid logic if only (B) was true.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Mr Pepper

For example, the use of infinity in the case of dividing 10 into 3 parts. We end up with 3.33-infinity. Even it we were allowed to use such a number (which doesn't exist) 3 parts of 3.33-infinity would still not equal 10.

Well, you have a point, we shouldn't put too much faith in your math

 

[Drakkon]

The problem is we use a Real number based number system and not more irrational numbers.
Between that and the use of pi and not 2pi and the use of angles instead of radians in most cases has screwed everything up

 

[Juddog]

This is the most idiotic thing I have read all day. Go back to teaching Intellectual Design to your kids and stay out of the tech forums.

 

[Vic]

The OP broke his 0.07 PPD lurking spree for THIS?

 

[PandaBear]

Math is a theoratical interpretation of the ideal world and the world is never perfectly aligned to math. That's why engineer uses math to approximate real world and put tolerance in the system to make things "good enough".

You have to learn to tolerate the idea that 0.99999 -> 1 and values in nature have a precision of +/- 300% (yes, 300%).

P.S. who said 10/3 -> 3.333333333 is not equal to 10 when you add them up? As long as they are within the tolerance of your application (quantization error), it is identical.

another p.s.

The main problem in most math is the input from measurement is not precise and the actual implementation in real world (i.e. wireless communication, weather forecast, kinetics, physics, etc) are not ideal, not the math itself.

 

[TheTony]

Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
Is math discovered or invented?

Discovered.

Ways to put it to use are invented.

 

[akubi]

to give the op some credit, I do hear they farm fine potatoes up in idaho

 

[GeneValgene]

i have a friend who's a doctoral candidate in math. he had an interesting blog entry concerning a similar topic.

check it out here, and let me know what you think

Mathematics and Philosophy