In memory of HawkeyeNJ

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Slomover2001

Member
Jun 19, 2001
138
0
0
Trader Gordo,

Hit "cached" at your link and it gives you the story. The pilot, Torba survived, the rest of the crew perished.

Hope this helps,

Gordon
 

OrlandoTiger

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2001
1,427
0
0
There is some good investigative work in this thread,maybe we'll get to the bottom of it yet.

The most important thing is that we remember HawkeyeNJ whatever his actual name was.Whats not in dispute is how much many of us saw him help other forum members when others couldnt be bothered.I got choked up reading the thread and realized once again that what really counts about our lives when we are gone is how we touched and helped others.

Thanks HawkeyeNJ

You set a good example for us.
 

FunkMan

Member
Jun 1, 2000
27
0
0
According to the article, which is there if you click on the "cache" link, Torba was the pilot and he lived. Lost his leg and retired in 1992. HawkeyeNJ is recalling the battle from the ground, watching the chopper come in and seeing the SAM hit the chopper. Torba and the crew were coming in to rescue HawkeyeNJ and the rest of his buddies.

The 2 sisters vs. 1 holds some water in my book. It is also possible if he was undergoing cancer treatment that it got bad real fast and he went into the hospital.

I would think if he was going to NY for a week somewhere on this board there would be a reference to it simply because he was an important member of this community.

No disprespect is intended, it's just a good mystery IMHO.

-Funk
 

TraderGordo

Member
Mar 5, 2002
52
0
0
For what its worth, I think its important to post the story of HawkeyeNJ's batallian, and what they went though.

Regarding the issue of burning the American flag. Yes -- I DO think you should be allowed to burn the flag, under ONE condition. That you wrap yourself in it first, and pour several gallons of gasoline over your head. Because then you would die for what you believed in, which is exactly what thousands have done for that flag and what it represents.

Hamburger Hill, May 13, 1969

The 3rd Battalion, 187th Airborne Infantry (3/187), known as the "Rakassans," [our very own HawkeyeNJ included] had been storming the NVA support base at Dong Ap Bia--dubbed "Hamburger Hill" by the Americans--for three days. Delta Company of the Rakassans had tried to sneak down a side ravine and assault back up the hill. They never made it past a small river at the northern base of Hill 937.

NVA scouts and snipers tracked Delta Company down and unleashed a vicious ambush. Rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s ripped into the Airborne troops, who were already exhausted from the murderous descent down the jungle precipice.

Aircraft commander 1st Lt. Gerald M. Torba (call sign "Dustoff 927"), co-pilot 1st Lt. Jerry T. Lee, crew chief James R. Walters and medic James A. Margro took off to rescue the beleaguered company. By now the 326th medevac crews were all aware that something out of the ordinary was taking place in the western A Shau, on a group of small mountains butted up against the Laotian border.

Captain Luther (Lee) Sanders, Delta Company commander, called in the medevac. As related in the book Hamburger Hill, by Samuel Zaffiri, Sanders then slogged uphill to try to secure the high ground for the chopper. When the flying ambulance found Delta Company, the story goes, Sanders warned Torba to hold off landing until the overlooking terrain was under American control. However--as in civilian aviation--the pilot in command makes all the final decisions and can ignore advice or deviate from rules and regulations for safety reasons in an emergency.

Lieutenant Torba had a heavy burden at that moment. He knew that NVA must be in the area. He also figured that most of an entire rifle company was fanning out under him; some of the company were already dead or dying below, sheltered near the logjams and rocks and under the trees along the river's banks. What to do was Torba's call--he faced a terrible choice between protecting the lives of his crew and saving the lives of the paratroopers.

Torba quickly made up his mind and took the chopper in. Walters and Torba worked together as they neared the pickup point, lowering a Stokes litter wire basket for a typically treacherous recovery in tall trees. The most seriously wounded soldier below them, Pfc George Pickel, was placed in the basket, and the Rakassan medics signaled Walters to lift off.

The basket swung free and Walters barked, "Breaking ground, sir!" as he punched the winch into fast rewind. When the basket was approaching the halfway point, an NVA soldier aimed his rocket launcher at the chopper. He pulled the trigger and a miniature SAM struck the main rotor disk of the aircraft, robbing the chopper of lift and showering its crew with shrapnel--in addition to momentarily stunning them with a blinding white light.

The pranged bird picked up speed--headed straight down--and crashed directly on top of Pfc Pickel. As the rotor blades came off, the decking flew up, breaking the backs of many of the crew members. Torba's left leg was ripped, burned and bleeding from a shrapnel wound, and his survival knife hit him in the teeth and mouth as he landed. A radio telephone operator and another grunt who had guided the ship in were mowed down by flying main rotor blades.

The surviving paratroopers rushed toward the twisted wreckage and pulled Torba from the cockpit. The rest of the crew was trapped in the bent aluminum and steel, and before they could be cut loose the wreck exploded in a horrific conflagration. The co-pilot and all the enlisted crewmen perished in the fire. [HawkeyeNJ witnessed this first hand: "I will never forget those crys of horror"].

With what seemed like half the NVA off the hill breaking through the surrounding brush and closing in on Delta Company, Captain Sanders mustered his exhausted and demoralized men and grabbed their seven remaining wounded, leaving seven dead men behind for later retrieval. He then attempted to retreat back up the ravine. In the course of what surely ranks as one of the most difficult retreats in 101st Airborne history, Lieutenant Torba was lugged up a muddy, sniper-infested, 45-degree forested slope. Then, after spending a miserably cold night, the pilot was placed on a pile of dead men toward the top of Hamburger Hill.

Seventeen hours after he was abandoned in the mud and rain on Hamburger Hill, another group of American troops found Torba there--still alive. He later lost his left leg below the knee, but he recovered from his wounds and retired as a lieutenant colonel in 1992.




Thank You, to all who believe in this great country of ours. We will not forgot what you have done.
 

FunkMan

Member
Jun 1, 2000
27
0
0
The real question that would put and end to this is:

"Was William "Bill" Cashman on Hill 937 on May 13th, 1969".

We know HawkeyeNJ was. Just need to confirm or deny that Mr. Cashman was.

-Funk
 

TraderGordo

Member
Mar 5, 2002
52
0
0
Don't know why people are still hung up on the bad ID. HawkeyeNJ was NOT Cashman. His service in the 187th during the LATE sixties DEFINITELY would have been mentioned in the obits. Cashman was in the 101st in the EARLY 60's. These were entirely different people. I'm beginning to think Hawkeye died of cancer. He probably got very ill shortly after his last post at the end of August, and logged on one last time on Sept. 23rd as his profile indicates, but was unable to post before passing. He died doing what he loved to do?

It's an intriguing mystery. I have no doubt that we will find the real HawkeyeNJ.



 

FunkMan

Member
Jun 1, 2000
27
0
0
The media is reporting the "early 60's" but we all know how the media sometimes doesn't have thier facts straight.

Anyway, I am waiting on confirmation from Fort. Campbell as to whether or not Cashman was on Hamburger Hill in May of '69. That should settle it in my book. I doubt he was because at some point if he was, the media would have listed it as such. On all the HH pages I have been looking throught there is no mention of Cashman.

-Funk
 

DeadHead

Senior member
Jun 12, 2002
243
0
0
Originally posted by: TraderGordo
For what its worth, I think its important to post the story of HawkeyeNJ's batallian, and what they went though.

Regarding the issue of burning the American flag. Yes -- I DO think you should be allowed to burn the flag, under ONE condition. That you wrap yourself in it first, and pour several gallons of gasoline over your head. Because then you would die for what you believed in, which is exactly what thousands have done for that flag and what it represents.
I have burned an American flag at LEAST on one occasion. It was way back in boy scouts, and we had a ceremony because it touched the ground or something of that sort. There are reasons when you are suppose to burn the flag.
 

a12548

Junior Member
Sep 15, 2002
7
0
0
Trader--EXCELLENT research, Ill chip in more info---Gerald Torba DEFINITELY wasnt Hawkeye, in fact, here is Torba's address and phone number, he's 57 years old, lives in Missouri. Maybe he knows something, but id be careful about phoning veterans about these memories. Anyway, we're getting closer to solving this. Personally I agree that cancer may have claimed him.
Heres address:
Gerald Torba
4590 Richland Heights Rd
Fulton, MO 65251-3879
(573) 642-7630
 

TraderGordo

Member
Mar 5, 2002
52
0
0
Deadhead, I was talking about protest burning. I have also retired many flags while in the Boy Scouts many years ago. The proper way to retire an American flag that has been damaged or worn out is by burning it in a solemn, respectful, ceremony. It is to be neatly and properly folded first, and placed on the top of the fire, while all present salute until it is destroyed.
 

BullishDad

Member
Feb 11, 2001
162
0
0
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but I think it's possible HawkeyeNJ was a doctor. Given his work in a Medical Battalion and the reference to Hawkeye of M.A.S.H. fame. This may help us find out who he was, if in fact he was a doctor.
 

dirtrat

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,092
0
71
Originally posted by: TraderGordo
Don't know why people are still hung up on the bad ID. HawkeyeNJ was NOT Cashman. His service in the 187th during the LATE sixties DEFINITELY would have been mentioned in the obits. Cashman was in the 101st in the EARLY 60's. These were entirely different people. I'm beginning to think Hawkeye died of cancer. He probably got very ill shortly after his last post at the end of August, and logged on one last time on Sept. 23rd as his profile indicates, but was unable to post before passing. He died doing what he loved to do?

It's an intriguing mystery. I have no doubt that we will find the real HawkeyeNJ.



just curious why you people seem to think he's dead just because he hasn't posted for a long time? Seems like everyone is assuming alot or did I miss something?
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,786
4,965
146
Originally posted by: dirtrat
Originally posted by: TraderGordo
Don't know why people are still hung up on the bad ID. HawkeyeNJ was NOT Cashman. His service in the 187th during the LATE sixties DEFINITELY would have been mentioned in the obits. Cashman was in the 101st in the EARLY 60's. These were entirely different people. I'm beginning to think Hawkeye died of cancer. He probably got very ill shortly after his last post at the end of August, and logged on one last time on Sept. 23rd as his profile indicates, but was unable to post before passing. He died doing what he loved to do?

It's an intriguing mystery. I have no doubt that we will find the real HawkeyeNJ.



just curious why you people seem to think he's dead just because he hasn't posted for a long time? Seems like everyone is assuming alot or did I miss something?


I have been saying all along that my feeling was that Hawkeye was not Mr. Cashman, but to think up this cancer senario and why he did or didn't post is akin to being a mindreader. I pointed out that he had chemo from a post he had made earlier along with the one versus two sisters to differentiate between the two gentleman. I don't know when, during his lifetime, that he had the chemo. It could have been last year or 10 or more years ago. I don't think he's passed on. Sometimes people just have their reasons for moving on. As I posted before, he's maybe pulling an Eddie from the Eddie and the Cruisers movie.

I agree with Dirtrat. Why do we think someone's dead just because they quit posting?
 

zinkpig

Senior member
May 13, 2001
670
0
0
Originally posted by: bit
I agree with Dirtrat. Why do we think someone's dead just because they quit posting?

i guess that's because of 9.11 and the fact that he lived in NJ.

I think it was more so because he was such a regular poster and i think may of us were suprised to see his posts stop abruptly after 9/11.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
25,009
4,370
136
i think may of us were suprised to see his posts stop abruptly after 9/11.

His posts did NOT stop abruptly after 9/11. They stopped for all practical purposes on 07/30. He posted once in OT on 8/26 and and created 2 threads about Compusa ads in Hot Deals on 8/31. Three total posts in August and none in September.
 

Carnivore99

Member
Jul 21, 2000
178
0
0
To a12548: Please edit your post.

I enjoy trying to solve the mystery as much as everyone else in this discussion, but I don't think it's appropriate to post personal details about someone who isn't involved, and may not have had contact with our nameless friend for over 30 years - that's just a little too invasive. There are numerous forums on the web set up to help former veterans find one another though. If you really want to pursue it, that would probably be a better way to do it.

On another subject, how sure are we that HawkeyeNJ actually lived in Ramsey, NJ? I did a search for "Ramsey" in all the Anandtech archives and didn't find any matches, from HawkeyeNJ or anyone else. Did he actually mention it in one of his posts?
 
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