In *other* NFL News.. Redskins to acquire #2 pick from Rams

[Arkaign]

i LOVE the hate that the skins and rg3 is receiving.

for the most part, people hate because of the success of who they are hating on, which is exactly the reason for the hating right now.

it means the skins are doing something right! and they are, it's called winning! definitely not used to that around the dc area for football.

No, people hate because they are morons or jackasses, or more commonly : both.

I'm an old school Cowboy fan, I basically have to be here in TX. People hate on them all the time even though they've sucked for the better part of two decades. Success has nothing to do with it, a-holes are a-holes regardless.

As for the Skins, hell yeah, go represent NFC East like a boss! I'm proud of RG3 and Morris, perhaps the most impressive pair of rookies I've ever seen in the NFL. They've earned every sweet ounce of their playoff berth, and I will be pulling for them. Some 'tards around here tried to downplay the Skins victory, saying stupid crap like 'Cowboys had too many injuries'. What BS. Skins had injuries too, and RG3 was not at full speed. The skins were just the better team, plain and simple, with more heart to boot (and a head coach I might add, who knows his ass from a hole in the ground).

Are they good enough to go all the way? I have no idea, but I'll be along for the ride.

Best wishes from Big D, and happy new year to all!

 

[hclarkjr]

No, people hate because they are morons or jackasses, or more commonly : both.

I'm an old school Cowboy fan, I basically have to be here in TX. People hate on them all the time even though they've sucked for the better part of two decades. Success has nothing to do with it, a-holes are a-holes regardless.

As for the Skins, hell yeah, go represent NFC East like a boss! I'm proud of RG3 and Morris, perhaps the most impressive pair of rookies I've ever seen in the NFL. They've earned every sweet ounce of their playoff berth, and I will be pulling for them. Some 'tards around here tried to downplay the Skins victory, saying stupid crap like 'Cowboys had too many injuries'. What BS. Skins had injuries too, and RG3 was not at full speed. The skins were just the better team, plain and simple, with more heart to boot (and a head coach I might add, who knows his ass from a hole in the ground).

Are they good enough to go all the way? I have no idea, but I'll be along for the ride.

Best wishes from Big D, and happy new year to all!

well said :thumbsup:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Luck and RG3 both had great seasons. I'm not so sure why Indyfan doesn't really accept that. RG3 did have a pair of minor injuries this season - but, Indy saw the 6/6 plays designed for RG3 to run. I saw them too - there was NOTHING in the way he ran to indicate that he's going to continue to take excessive chances like he did early in the season. And, for the game he missed, he came out and said he felt he was able to play, but the staff wanted him to rest an extra week. In fact, if I recall correctly, after the injury, he ended up going back out for at least part of another series - demonstrating that he has some toughness to him. It reminded me of watching Jim Kelly get nailed on a sack & knocked temporarily out of the game, only to bounce back and come out as determined as ever. Thus, RGIII's longevity isn't any more a question than Luck's.

DrPizza, I've said several times (and will say it again for the record here): RG3 is an elite talent and has had a spectacular rookie season. No question about that. The reason I'm attacked is because I call Redskins fans on their bull. The list of half-truths from Skins fans in these threads is ridiculous:


1. "He isn't a running QB!" Really? The stats prove otherwise. You can't call Vick, Cunningham, etc. "rushing QBs" when RG3 has roughly equaled their CAREER HIGH single-season highs in rushing attempts.
2. "OK, he is a running QB! But, the large majority is because he only runs when he HAS to!" Really? So of his 120 runs this season, the "vast majority" were because his line collapsed? I call shens. Because in all the games I've watched, I've seen several option and designed plays and they were the majority of runs, not pocket collapses. I'm not sure why you keep throwing the fact that he ran designed plays in my face; I've said that the majority of his runs ARE designed plays, which has made Skins fans mad for some reason.
3. "Uh, erm, well, uhm, the Redskins are worse than the Colts!" LOL, no one who knows football agrees with that and besides that, who cares? We're not discussing Skins vs Colts, we're discussing keeping RG3 from getting killed.
4. "The Redskins line is TERRIBLE!!!" I haven't studied them enough to see if that's entirely true, but at least in the last game I saw, they were very solid with excellent blocking schemes. You don't have a 1600 yard rusher with a terrible offensive line. Their pass blocking seemed OK to me in this last game as well, but maybe they just played well (though an article on SI the other day said it was a good offensive line and they do have at least 1 Pro Bowler, which at least hclarkjr thinks matters even though no one else does ).
5. "His knee injury must have been the reason he had a bad game against the Cowboys." Was this the same knee injury that allowed him 63 rushing yards on 6 carries? The same knee injury that allowed him to have a 102.4 passer rating in the previous game? When Luck makes a bad play or has a bad game, I can admit it. Redskins fans? No, it is everyone else's fault or somehow a knee injury which didn't really affect him last game magically affects his THROWING this game, even though his rushing is seemingly unaffected. A knee injury that affects throwing but not running -- that's a new one I'll put in my bag of tricks in case Luck gets injured.
6. "Neener-neener-neener, Luck has more INTs!" This matters why? Peyton Manning had more INTs his rookie season than RG3 and Luck COMBINED and was on a MUCH better offensive team than at least Luck and probably both. Either Luck or RG3 will be lucky to have even half the success Manning has had. Redskins fans don't like to hear it, but it is true -- Luck's offense is far more complex than RG3's offense. Luck has made some bad, bone-headed decisions and tried to force the ball too many times, but anyone who seriously denies the offensive scheme differences is being dishonest. Luck is trending in the right direction, with only 1 legitimate INT in his last 4 games (the other INT was a call the officials blew, which the NFL later admitted).

At any rate, RG3 ran 120 times this season. That is what you guys are missing. You act like he runs a couple of sprints to the sidelines in each game and that's it. Now, in fairness to RG3, if he has to run, the designed plays are better for him, because you can at least get blockers in front of him to mitigate some of the risk. However, you're still exposing him to some unnecessary hits especially on the "option" type of plays. At least two of the samples we have with that many runs from the QB position (Vick and Cunningham) suffered from many injuries over their careers.

Back to the topic of this thread -- as I've said, I think the Redskins gave up too much BUT on the other hand, I do applaud the gutsy move. Keep in mind, the Redskins gave up (IIRC) three first round picks and a second round pick. Also, if I am not mistaken, they were hit with a penalty by the NFL which took $15 million in cap space away over 2 years. So if that was not overturned, they could be hurting in terms of personnel and will have to rely on lower-round picks and cheap free agents to fill the gaps. It might work in the short term and buy them time, but it may not. We'll see. The Colts are in a similar situation now due to dead money on the cap and it has worked out "OK" for them at least this year, but I don't think it is sustainable.

I hope it works out long-term for them. Perennial doormats like Arizona, Buffalo, Chiefs, etc. are going to probably have to take similar chances to solve their long-standing QB issues.

 

[hclarkjr]

He ran 120 times this season. That is what you guys are missing. You act like he runs a couple of sprints to the sidelines in each game and that's it. Now, in fairness to RG3, if he has to run, the designed plays are better for him, because you can at least get blockers in front of him to mitigate some of the risk. However, you're still exposing him to some unnecessary hits especially on the "option" type of plays. At least two of the samples we have with that many runs from the QB position (Vick and Cunningham) suffered from many injuries over their careers.

The list of half-truths from Skins fans in these threads is ridiculous:

1. "He isn't a running QB!" Really? The stats prove otherwise.
2. "OK, he is a running QB! But, he only runs when he HAS to!" Really? Because in all the games I've watched, I've seen several option and designed plays and they were the majority of runs.
3. "Uh, erm, well, uhm, the Redskins are worse than the Colts!" LOL, no one who knows football agrees with that and besides that, who cares? We're not discussing Skins vs Colts, we're discussing keeping RG3 from getting killed.
4. "The Redskins line is TERRIBLE!!!" I haven't studied them enough to see if that's entirely true, but at least in the last game I saw, they were very solid with excellent blocking schemes. You don't have a 1600 yard rusher with a terrible offensive line. Their pass blocking seemed OK to me in this last game as well, but maybe they just played well (though an article on SI the other day said it was a good offensive line and they do have at least 1 Pro Bowler, which at least hclarkjr thinks matters even though no one else does ).
5. "His knee injury must have been the reason he had a bad game against the Cowboys." Was this the same knee injury that allowed him 63 rushing yards on 6 carries? The same knee injury that allowed him to have a 102.4 passer rating in the previous game? When Luck makes a bad play or has a bad game, I can admit it. Redskins fans? No, it is everyone else's fault. I'm sure RG3's interceptions weren't his fault either.

The real comedy is how Redskins fans take such offense to the label "rushing QB" and try to deny it until their last breath. Why is this taken as such an insult? I've never said RG3 was bad (I've said he is an elite talent); what I have said -- repeatedly -- is that his style of play is going to take years off his career. As I said in another post, WHO CARES if he is a rushing QB (other than injury risk)? He might finally be the guy who changes the position. The only real issue with him being a "rushing QB" is the injury potential. Skins fans won't hear it and it always devolves into an RG3 vs. Luck comparison. "Neener-neener-neener, Luck has more INTs!" Peyton Manning had more INTs his rookie season than RG3 and Luck COMBINED and was on a MUCH better offensive team than at least Luck and probably both. Either Luck or RG3 will be lucky to have even half the success Manning has had, but I'm not worried.

another epic post about the skins by ICF

 

[IndyColtsFan]

another epic post about the skins by ICF

Reread my post, I was making edits. Please refute my points if you can. You're the source of some of the comedy.

 

[hclarkjr]

Reread my post, I was making edits. Please refute my points if you can. You're the source of some of the comedy.

OH contrare, you are a source of comedy as well!! :awe:

 

[IndyColtsFan]

OH contrare, you are a source of comedy as well!! :awe:

Translation: I can't refute them.

P.S. It is "au contraire." :awe:

 

[sjwaste]

OH contrare, you are a source of comedy as well!! :awe:

His points are correct. Not sure why you're up his ass, he's not ripping your team or any of your guys. He's just making the very valid point that the Skins will need to do a better job going forward of not letting RG3 get killed.

I watched it in Philly with Cunningham and McNabb. I'd say Vick too, but he was past his prime when he got here.

Whether it's a scramble or by design, these guys are used to being the best athletes on the field their entire lives and at the NFL level that no longer remains true. Maybe as rookies it still is, but a few years in, they lose a step, partly due to watching a lot more film and practicing a lot more on the throwing aspect of the game and not sprinting sideline to sideline. At the NFL level, that's not their primary job, and those skills begin to deteriorate. Meanwhile, you have your average OLB who makes a living being 6'4", 280, and running a 4.6 because he has to cover and tackle the TE. Know what happens when your 4.3 QB becomes more of a 4.6? Take a look at McNabb 2006 onward. And then remember that McNabb had Thomas and Runyan, elite tackles that could stay out in front of him for at least a little bit.

There are a lot of examples of athletically gifted QBs getting run into an early retirement due to bad coaching and a poor supporting cast. At least in Philly, we had to watch it happen to Cunningham before some lessons learned (and sheer luck at times) were applied to McNabb.

 

[manimal]

DrPizza, I've said several times (and will say it again for the record here): RG3 is an elite talent and has had a spectacular rookie season. No question about that. The reason I'm attacked is because I call Redskins fans on their bull. The list of half-truths from Skins fans in these threads is ridiculous:


1. "He isn't a running QB!" Really? The stats prove otherwise. You can't call Vick, Cunningham, etc. "rushing QBs" when RG3 has roughly equaled their CAREER HIGH single-season highs in rushing attempts.
2. "OK, he is a running QB! But, the large majority is because he only runs when he HAS to!" Really? So of his 120 runs this season, the "vast majority" were because his line collapsed? I call shens. Because in all the games I've watched, I've seen several option and designed plays and they were the majority of runs, not pocket collapses. I'm not sure why you keep throwing the fact that he ran designed plays in my face; I've said that the majority of his runs ARE designed plays, which has made Skins fans mad for some reason.
3. "Uh, erm, well, uhm, the Redskins are worse than the Colts!" LOL, no one who knows football agrees with that and besides that, who cares? We're not discussing Skins vs Colts, we're discussing keeping RG3 from getting killed.
4. "The Redskins line is TERRIBLE!!!" I haven't studied them enough to see if that's entirely true, but at least in the last game I saw, they were very solid with excellent blocking schemes. You don't have a 1600 yard rusher with a terrible offensive line. Their pass blocking seemed OK to me in this last game as well, but maybe they just played well (though an article on SI the other day said it was a good offensive line and they do have at least 1 Pro Bowler, which at least hclarkjr thinks matters even though no one else does ).
5. "His knee injury must have been the reason he had a bad game against the Cowboys." Was this the same knee injury that allowed him 63 rushing yards on 6 carries? The same knee injury that allowed him to have a 102.4 passer rating in the previous game? When Luck makes a bad play or has a bad game, I can admit it. Redskins fans? No, it is everyone else's fault or somehow a knee injury which didn't really affect him last game magically affects his THROWING this game, even though his rushing is seemingly unaffected. A knee injury that affects throwing but not running -- that's a new one I'll put in my bag of tricks in case Luck gets injured.
6. "Neener-neener-neener, Luck has more INTs!" This matters why? Peyton Manning had more INTs his rookie season than RG3 and Luck COMBINED and was on a MUCH better offensive team than at least Luck and probably both. Either Luck or RG3 will be lucky to have even half the success Manning has had. Redskins fans don't like to hear it, but it is true -- Luck's offense is far more complex than RG3's offense. Luck has made some bad, bone-headed decisions and tried to force the ball too many times, but anyone who seriously denies the offensive scheme differences is being dishonest. Luck is trending in the right direction, with only 1 legitimate INT in his last 4 games (the other INT was a call the officials blew, which the NFL later admitted).

At any rate, RG3 ran 120 times this season. That is what you guys are missing. You act like he runs a couple of sprints to the sidelines in each game and that's it. Now, in fairness to RG3, if he has to run, the designed plays are better for him, because you can at least get blockers in front of him to mitigate some of the risk. However, you're still exposing him to some unnecessary hits especially on the "option" type of plays. At least two of the samples we have with that many runs from the QB position (Vick and Cunningham) suffered from many injuries over their careers.

Back to the topic of this thread -- as I've said, I think the Redskins gave up too much BUT on the other hand, I do applaud the gutsy move. Keep in mind, the Redskins gave up (IIRC) three first round picks and a second round pick. Also, if I am not mistaken, they were hit with a penalty by the NFL which took $15 million in cap space away over 2 years. So if that was not overturned, they could be hurting in terms of personnel and will have to rely on lower-round picks and cheap free agents to fill the gaps. It might work in the short term and buy them time, but it may not. We'll see. The Colts are in a similar situation now due to dead money on the cap and it has worked out "OK" for them at least this year, but I don't think it is sustainable.

I hope it works out long-term for them. Perennial doormats like Arizona, Buffalo, Chiefs, etc. are going to probably have to take similar chances to solve their long-standing QB issues.

ya guys can only take so much.

His points are correct. Not sure why you're up his ass, he's not ripping your team or any of your guys. He's just making the very valid point that the Skins will need to do a better job going forward of not letting RG3 get killed.

I watched it in Philly with Cunningham and McNabb. I'd say Vick too, but he was past his prime when he got here.

Whether it's a scramble or by design, these guys are used to being the best athletes on the field their entire lives and at the NFL level that no longer remains true. Maybe as rookies it still is, but a few years in, they lose a step, partly due to watching a lot more film and practicing a lot more on the throwing aspect of the game and not sprinting sideline to sideline. At the NFL level, that's not their primary job, and those skills begin to deteriorate. Meanwhile, you have your average OLB who makes a living being 6'4", 280, and running a 4.6 because he has to cover and tackle the TE. Know what happens when your 4.3 QB becomes more of a 4.6? Take a look at McNabb 2006 onward. And then remember that McNabb had Thomas and Runyan, elite tackles that could stay out in front of him for at least a little bit.

There are a lot of examples of athletically gifted QBs getting run into an early retirement due to bad coaching and a poor supporting cast. At least in Philly, we had to watch it happen to Cunningham before some lessons learned (and sheer luck at times) were applied to McNabb.

Some guys like that guy in buffallo in the 90s do it to themselves and hold onto the ball like idiots. Its frankly a miracle Rapeslisburger can still walk after the beating he gave himself his first few years.

 

[zinfamous]

Nice try, but you specifically said his runs were because of pocket collapses, not designed plays. In other words, you were full of crap when you said it. That's OK, we all knew that any way.

It's an option offence. That never means it is a "Designed QB run play." So, you're wrong.


That being said, I fucking HATE the option in the NFL, for all the reasons that you do.

 

[zinfamous]

as for the loss in cap money due to those trades, it's more or less washed away by the bargain they got drafting Alfred Morris.

Say what you will, but successful drafts like that are both rare and highly coveted by any team in the league.

Giving up those top pics is rough, but if you can get the kind of years out of RG3 that anyone expects to get out of Morris, those 2 top-class talents are all you would ever dream to get out of 4 1st and 2nd rd pics.

As for now, the draft last year looks like a huge gamble that has paid off well.

Give it 3 seasons, if RG3 doesn't kill himself out there.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's an option offence. That never means it is a "Designed QB run play." So, you're wrong.

While it is true that an option technically is not a "designed QB run play," I don't believe I ever actually used those words (if I did, I misspoke and was wrong) -- I said the plays were "designed run plays" in which RG3 happens to be the runner a high percentage of the time (meaning, of course, that an option allows him to give to a back, which he also does on occasion). IIRC, there were a few run plays Sunday night when RG3 took the snap and ran right around the corner in a non-option formation -- THAT would be a "designed QB run play." An option is just a formation where the QB is one possible runner. And those times when he throws the ball to the back, it is probably even worse -- many times a QB will try to make a block and that is a prime opportunity for a defender to kill your QB.

 

[preslove]

I think that a running qb only makes sense if you're willing to construct an offense around his style of play. There are enough college programs with spread offenses and mobile qb's to make a qb squad full of runners.

I think the redskins should get tebow and vick, or another running qb as backups to RG3. Bringing in tebow for 10 or so plays would add an extra wrinkle to the offense and give RG3 reps off. This is assuming jax doesn't take tebow and he's willing to take backup qb money.

I wonder how good tebow's hands are. If he could run 10 plays as a qb and several more as a tight end, he would be more valuable.

 

[eits]

the great thing about rg3 is he's got the capability to be any kind of quarterback the offense calls for. if the play calls for an option or a rush, he'll rush and do it well and safely. if the play calls for sitting back in the pocket and throwing downfield, he can do it with pinpoint accuracy. where most quarterbacks would simply throw the ball away and lose a down if there isn't anyone to throw to, rg3 tries to safely get the first down or as close to one as possible rather than get nothing at all by throwing it away, yet he's got the presence of mind to understand when he must get rid of the ball or risk losing yards. he's quick enough and intelligent enough and an insane enough athlete to accomplish whatever he wants as quarterback... and he does it with humility, strong leadership, respect, and poise. the guy's a Godsend for the skins.

 

[techs]

It's sad when fans like those of the Washington Redskins are basically planning for multiple Super Bowl wins when they make the playoffs for the first time in years. Its like the Jets fans who were sure they were in for a decade of dominance a few years back.

Heck, the Skins 10 win season doesn't always guarantee the playoffs. In the AFC west they would have finished in 3rd place. The Giants played a far tougher schedule as the Super Bowl champs and they only beat them by a game.

The Skins don't have a first round pick coming up in 2013 and 2014. Plus they have a ton of money tied up in RG3 so they can't do a lot in the free agent market.

Hey, Skins fans enjoy the ride. But you're delusional if you think the Skins are well placed to make the playoffs the next few years.

 

[eits]

I think that a running qb only makes sense if you're willing to construct an offense around his style of play. There are enough college programs with spread offenses and mobile qb's to make a qb squad full of runners.

I think the redskins should get tebow and vick, or another running qb as backups to RG3. Bringing in tebow for 10 or so plays would add an extra wrinkle to the offense and give RG3 reps off. This is assuming jax doesn't take tebow and he's willing to take backup qb money.

I wonder how good tebow's hands are. If he could run 10 plays as a qb and several more as a tight end, he would be more valuable.

keep those curses off my team.

 

[hclarkjr]

It's sad when fans like those of the Washington Redskins are basically planning for multiple Super Bowl wins when they make the playoffs for the first time in years. Its like the Jets fans who were sure they were in for a decade of dominance a few years back.

Heck, the Skins 10 win season doesn't always guarantee the playoffs. In the AFC west they would have finished in 3rd place. The Giants played a far tougher schedule as the Super Bowl champs and they only beat them by a game.

The Skins don't have a first round pick coming up in 2013 and 2014. Plus they have a ton of money tied up in RG3 so they can't do a lot in the free agent market.

Hey, Skins fans enjoy the ride. But you're delusional if you think the Skins are well placed to make the playoffs the next few years.

you techs are full of shit

 

[eits]

It's sad when fans like those of the Washington Redskins are basically planning for multiple Super Bowl wins when they make the playoffs for the first time in years. Its like the Jets fans who were sure they were in for a decade of dominance a few years back.

Heck, the Skins 10 win season doesn't always guarantee the playoffs. In the AFC west they would have finished in 3rd place. The Giants played a far tougher schedule as the Super Bowl champs and they only beat them by a game.

The Skins don't have a first round pick coming up in 2013 and 2014. Plus they have a ton of money tied up in RG3 so they can't do a lot in the free agent market.

Hey, Skins fans enjoy the ride. But you're delusional if you think the Skins are well placed to make the playoffs the next few years.

lol afc

 

[IAteYourMother]

tl;dr

 

[Adrenaline]

Plus they have a ton of money tied up in RG3 so they can't do a lot in the free agent market.

I love reading your posts to see just where you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a good laugh.

You have no concept of the rookie wages in the NFL.

 

[techs]

I love reading your posts to see just where you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a good laugh.

You have no concept of the rookie wages in the NFL.

He got like a 14 million signing bonus and makes about 5 mil a year iirc. I call that a ton of money

 

[Dirigible]

He got like a 14 million signing bonus and makes about 5 mil a year iirc. I call that a ton of money

It's extremely cheap for a starting QB. Gives them the ability to use money elsewhere for a few years until he gets his second deal. It's a nice advantage for the Redskins.

 

[techs]

It's extremely cheap for a starting QB. Gives them the ability to use money elsewhere for a few years until he gets his second deal. It's a nice advantage for the Redskins.

After a concussion and a knee injury his first season I would say the odds are 50-50 that he is still effective by the end of five years.
Though this is the Skins were talking about. They will probably sign him to multiyear contract a week before he blows out a knee.

 

[Adrenaline]

He got like a 14 million signing bonus and makes about 5 mil a year iirc. I call that a ton of money

His contract was a four year, $21.12 million fully guaranteed with a signing bonus.

That is extremely cheap to what other previously drafted QBs got. Sam Bradford got a $50 million dollar signing bonus alone. That is going to hurt the Rams.

Luck, RG3 and Tannehill are cheap. All three of them are about 83% (rough guess) Bradford's signing bonus.

 

[Adrenaline]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/18/rg3-signs-redskins-four-year-21m-deal-fully-guaran/

Griffin, the second-overall pick, will count $3.83 million against the salary cap in 2012; $4.79 million in 2013; $5.75 million in 2014; and $6.71 million in 2015. That’s a heck of a bargain if Griffin reaches his potential.