In search of the Liberal mindset

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Somewhere along the line, things changed. I'm fascinated by the endless string of editorials and links from the left-wing google-mongers here, because the attitude of today's liberal seems vastly different than the attitude of yesterday's liberal wingnuts from the 30s, 40s, and 50s. I guess the only way for them to become a power in the marketplace of ideas was to sell out. That worked for a while... but it's becoming painfully obvious that the gig is up because they have no ideological base to stand on. (Hence the political decline of liberalism in the past 10-20 years).

Whereas the crusading spirit that advocated a planned society, and talking in terms of abstract principles, theories, and noble ends was the norm, today modern leftists concern themselves with single, concrete-bound, range-of-the-moment projects and demands without regard to the larger context, costs, or consequences. Notice the same hardened Libs continuously posting links that supposedly "prove a point"... but that's the problem. They're all pragmatic, extremely narrow evaluations of a singular situation. "Bagdad Police Chief Killed" and So-and-So lectures Bush" etc....

Such a strategy may win a few brownie points here-and-there with some people. But what is never developed is the old-fashioned ideological framework. This is the Catch-22 the Left is in today. They can abandon the broad social reforms of their predessesors (because most people will reject the philosophical foundation outright), but eventually their asymmetrical strategy to "smuggle" this society into welfare statism by means of single, concrete, specific measures, enlarging the power of the government a step at a time, never permitting the whole of these steps to be summed up into principles, never permitting their direction to be identified or their underlying base to be exposed crumbles and fails... just as their political influence has deteriorated recently.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and it's almost sad to see them spinning their wheels so furiously in a dead-end road to nowhere. They went from getting their idealistic machinations skewered 50 years ago, to a guerilla campaign of pragmaticism that saw their polices fall short and be rejected today. So much failure, no wonder they tend to be neurotic types

Basically, they are doomed to repeat their past frustrations and will continue to collapse. During the cold war, they proclaimed their love for mankind while being bored by the rivers of blood pouring from the Soviet Union and China. Ranging from intellectual evasion to glowing tribute towards Communists, they pointed their little barbs at the US for reasons of "injustice," "exploitation," "repression," and "persecution." Today, they are no different. They pour out range-of-the-moment, pragmatitic arguments (as evidenced here on P&N) against the USA, while generally remaining silent -and in most ways oblivious to- the nature of our enemy. The more things change, the more things stay the same... once again doomed to be on the wrong side of history.











 

imported_Snagle

Golden Member
Sep 28, 2004
1,805
0
76
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

i know the GOP did well in the senate and in general liberalism is in a downturn at the moment, just sayin
 

lowfatbaconboy

Golden Member
Oct 21, 2000
1,796
0
0
try watching the "Power of Nightmares" a BBC documentary on the US government and terrorism and the cold war...
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Some of the same things can be said about any group that isn't currently sitting on top. As always the real success will come when everyone realizes the truth is always in the middle. Black and white is an artificial creation. Lib or Con, it doesn't matter as long as you come together in the middle.
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
0
0
A very scholarly essay, I must say. However, the impression is given that conservative thinking is a no-compromise take on society.

The attitude of, "I'm right, and you're an idiot" is pure Rush Limbaugh. This world will always move forward with input from all sides and opinions. The state of American politics may be conservative now, but to discredit liberal causes with a wave of the hand is naive.

I am a moderate- liberal on many issues, very conservative on others. Never will I assume that my adversaries are out of touch.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Originally posted by: Zedtom

The attitude of, "I'm right, and you're an idiot" is pure Rush Limbaugh.

funny how thats how about 95% of people sound in this forum. :roll:
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
I am fully aware of the enemy. It sits in two places. One which would attack us from without, and one which would use fear to snatch freedom and hard fought for rights.

There is more than one snake in the hole.
 
May 10, 2001
2,669
0
0
The more things change, the more things stay the same... once again doomed to be on the wrong side of history.
but i do appreciate someone being there to say "nuh uh!", without unabashed contrarians ware would we get the few good ideas that defy the norm?

One which would attack us from without, and one which would use fear to snatch freedom and hard fought for rights.

There is more than one snake in the hole.
are those that would trade political free speech* for social decadence** are the enemy of whom you speak?

*right to say what you want by means of a political add
**"right" to have T&A on broadcast TV
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
The more things change, the more things stay the same... once again doomed to be on the wrong side of history.
but i do appreciate someone being there to say "nuh uh!", without unabashed contrarians ware would we get the few good ideas that defy the norm?

One which would attack us from without, and one which would use fear to snatch freedom and hard fought for rights.

There is more than one snake in the hole.
are those that would trade political free speech* for social decadence** are the enemy of whom you speak?

*right to say what you want by means of a political add
**"right" to have T&A on broadcast TV

Na, I was thinking of less important thing than T&A, like a citizens right to a fair and speedy trial, habeas corpus. You know that "trivial" stuff.

I don't buy into this liberal vs conservative Dem vs Rep crap. I look at what we have, and if it stinks, then I call it. It stinks. I'll let others worry about Janet Jacksons boob.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Zedtom

The attitude of, "I'm right, and you're an idiot" is pure Rush Limbaugh.

funny how thats how about 95% of people sound in this forum. :roll:

You fall right into the 95% I might add....
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
Originally posted by: Snagle
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

i know the GOP did well in the senate and in general liberalism is in a downturn at the moment, just sayin

more like 130, 000
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Zedtom

The attitude of, "I'm right, and you're an idiot" is pure Rush Limbaugh.

funny how thats how about 95% of people sound in this forum. :roll:

You fall right into the 95% I might add....

exactly what i mean.


and im sure you think you dont fall into the 95%...:roll:
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,158
6
81
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: Snagle
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

i know the GOP did well in the senate and in general liberalism is in a downturn at the moment, just sayin

more like 130, 000

no...more like 60,000
 
Jul 1, 2000
10,274
2
0
Originally posted by: Snagle
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

i know the GOP did well in the senate and in general liberalism is in a downturn at the moment, just sayin

I don't think he would have looked like a jackass posting this.

A win for Kerry would not have been a win for liberalism. Many were voting against Bush, and not for Kerry.

Liberalism has been on the decline since McGovern's disasterous run in 1972. That is 32 plus years. TO say liberalism is in a downturn is an understatement.

The very reason that it is in "downturn" is because the underlying ideology has been roundly rejected. The OP is right. The libs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Tabb
Originally posted by: nick1985
Originally posted by: Zedtom

The attitude of, "I'm right, and you're an idiot" is pure Rush Limbaugh.

funny how thats how about 95% of people sound in this forum. :roll:

You fall right into the 95% I might add....

exactly what i mean.


and im sure you think you dont fall into the 95%...:roll:

no...more like 42.5%
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

Nah, it'll take more than a presidential win. It's about policies, and a general political shift.


I am fully aware of the enemy. It sits in two places. One which would attack us from without, and one which would use fear to snatch freedom and hard fought for rights.

Right, but I do place a lot of faith in our political mechanism and the people. The external threat is usually a very different animal. The threats within are rarely the conspiratorial evil that some make believe... it's usually general ignorance and random selfishness that we can keep tabs on.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Firstly and foremost, I'm surprised there are actually people in this forum who can make a post of that length and be the original author. :Q

The attitudes of liberals since 2000 has been that of conservatives during the Clinton years - mostly bitching about the supposed radicalization of the country's current agenda when the reality is little that is awful is really occuring. I guess everyone needs a justification for why their side didn't win. Keep in mind that the voting public is even today still almost perfectly split in half.

Democrats in America today have a few problems. First, their primary social goals are virtually accomplished. Abortion is legal, women are man's equal, the environment isn't being raped, and frankly gay rights aren't the big resounding issue it's made out to be. There's a fair bit of aggrandization of Republicans as the enemies of these issues when there's actually no serious opposition. It gets transparent and comes off as...whiny.

On the other hand, the Republicans have coopted the big ticket issues of the day. If you want an administration that plays hardball with foreign opponents, you naturally look to the conservatives. Ramming through change for Social Security? The Republicans. Cater to the businessman? The Republicans. More money in your pocket? Republicans again, albeit falsely. It's hard to win any voters other than the cadre that'll vote for your side no-matter-what with your major talking points obliterated.

You're right - this is eerily reminiscent of Cold War times. Frankly, trying to understand the enemy in hopes of reasoning with them isn't going any better now than it did then. What's aggravating is that with the fall of the USSR only a decade in the past, people are already rewriting history to make it out to be all about Western imperialism. Communist threat? Whassat? Meh. America has always gotten the job done as needed and I'm sure that that will continue.
 
Jul 1, 2000
10,274
2
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
if 60,000 votes wouldve went the other way in ohio you would look like a jackass posting this.

Nah, it'll take more than a presidential win. It's about policies, and a general political shift.


I am fully aware of the enemy. It sits in two places. One which would attack us from without, and one which would use fear to snatch freedom and hard fought for rights.

Right, but I do place a lot of faith in our political mechanism and the people. The external threat is usually a very different animal. The threats within are rarely the conspiratorial evil that some make believe... it's usually general ignorance and random selfishness that we can keep tabs on.

Actually, his post makes your point for you. Notice his complete and total inability to see beyond a single election.
 

HalosPuma

Banned
Jul 11, 2004
498
0
0
Originally posted by: Megamorph
nice post

:thumbsup: The goal of today's liberal is to turn the United States into the old Soviet Union. Centralize all of the power of local, state, and federal governments. Oversee all aspects of people's lifes from personal to business. In the name of the State, redistribute people's wealth and resources.

I suggest all the liberals read Jim Roger's Investment Biker: Around the World with Jim Rogers and his sequel book. He toured the entire world for several years and documented many of the failures of the Soviet Union. Time and again the reason was due to socialism. There was no incentive for the common man to better himself since the government either took care of his very basic needs, then took whatever else he had. "Equality", right?

The problem with today's liberals is that they are hellbent on control of other people's lives and property. Thankfully, the majority of our nation has some common sense.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
The problem with today's liberals is that they are hellbent on control of other people's lives and property.
Wow, just wow.
 
Jul 1, 2000
10,274
2
0
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
The problem with today's liberals is that they are hellbent on control of other people's lives and property.
Wow, just wow.

Smoking, SUVs, raising taxes because the government spends money better than you do.... his point makes sense.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Originally posted by: her209
Originally posted by: HalosPuma
The problem with today's liberals is that they are hellbent on control of other people's lives and property.
Wow, just wow.

Smoking, SUVs, raising taxes because the government spends money better than you do.... his point makes sense.

yea, except that his point applies to conservatives just as much as liberals, nowadays. abortion, gay marriage, censorship...
 
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