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Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
I think Obama would be a great choice, I think he'd do a lot of good in terms of uniting this country across party lines. Anyways, who knows what will happen in the future.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

I'm shocked centinal (in a good way). Glad to hear it. If it makes you feel better I would have considered voting for McCain if he had been a candidate back in 2k
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

Think so?

Not if there is any truth to this... Text.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

Think so?

Not if there is any truth to this... Text.
Something from a Freeper??
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

I'm shocked centinal (in a good way). Glad to hear it. If it makes you feel better I would have considered voting for McCain if he had been a candidate back in 2k

Despite what some people here seem to think i'm not a fire-breathing bible toting rabid Bush lover. I didnt vote for him, and still wouldnt. The Patriot Act, Medicare prescription program, etc etc. I am above all anti-big government, yet I also understand the need for basic social services. Working in the Social Security Administration for a summer definately opened my eyes to that subject....I was able to see people who it almost broke my heart to see them living how they were, but then also people that made me raging made with their almost flippant and flagrant abuse of the system.

I above all want a moderate (from either party) who actually cares more about the american people than his bank account, political ideologies, radical big-donating constituents.....and that doesnt think big government = utopian nirvana.

Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

Think so?

Not if there is any truth to this... Text.
Something from a Freeper??

Ok, stop the presses i'm going to agree with conjur here. That article is so full of horseshit it's not funny. Obama wasnt lying at all. He was making a politically smart move by downplaying his muslim religion considering the current times we live in. His father grew up on a farm....educated or not, as long as he had goats on the farm his father was a wealthy and well educated goat farmer

I read the entire article and frankly it stunk to high heaven of partisan politics.

Edit: good grief i cant spell today.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
0
Originally posted by: Centinel

I above all want a moderate (from either party) who actually cares more about the american people than his bank account, political ideologies, radical big-donating constituents.....and that doesnt think big government = utopian nirvana.

bah! good luck getting THAT guy elected! Someone will fabricate something about his past bury him. I've lost a lot of faith in good people who care to actually get elected anymore.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days. That and the full-fledged lack of accountability or acknowledgement of mistakes on the part of *anyone* in the Bush administration.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

Think so?

Not if there is any truth to this... Text.
Something from a Freeper??

Yeah, I know, bad source. But IS there any truth to it?
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days.


Ok this is scary...twice in one day I completely agree with conjur
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: bamacre
Yeah, I know, bad source. But IS there any truth to it?
Look at the date of that post. Aug. 2004. I think we'd have heard something by now. It was just a knee-jerk reaction to his great speech at the DNC. Someone had to fling mud his way.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Centinel
bamacre:

Dont right off Obama.....if he keeps going on the same track, and avoids scandal, he may be a viable candidate sooner than you think.

I know I for one would vote for him....I disagree with some of his social policy, but am willing to compromise a bit on my ideals for the overall package which I think would be great for this country.

Think so?

Not if there is any truth to this... Text.
Something from a Freeper??

Ok, stop the presses i'm going to agree with conjur here. That article is so full of horseshit it's not funny. Obama wasnt lying at all. He was making a politically smart move by downplaying his muslim religion considering the current times we live in. His father grew up on a farm....educated or not, as long as he had goats on the farm his father was a wealthy and well educated goat farmer

I read the entire article and frankly it stunk to high heaven of partisan politics.

Edit: good grief i cant spell today.

Thanks for the info. I do not know a hell of a lot about him.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days.
Ok this is scary...twice in one day I completely agree with conjur
Shouldn't be scary.

Many up here take my grand distaste of Bush as meaning I'm total a liberal, a communist, a Saddam-lover, etc. That's just bunk. I've been a Republican my entire adult life. But, it seems the GOP and its current stance is pushing me more and more toward the Democratic party (even though there are stances there with which I don't agree). I just feel the GOP has lost its way. Just as Newt said on Meet The Press several months ago when he commented that the Republican Party has become power-hungry and that's what they hated about the Democrats when the GOP took control in the early 90s. They've become that which they despised.

Have my ideals changed? No. The parties are changing.
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days.
Ok this is scary...twice in one day I completely agree with conjur
Shouldn't be scary.

Many up here take my grand distaste of Bush as meaning I'm total a liberal, a communist, a Saddam-lover, etc. That's just bunk. I've been a Republican my entire adult life. But, it seems the GOP and its current stance is pushing me more and more toward the Democratic party (even though there are stances there with which I don't agree). I just feel the GOP has lost its way. Just as Newt said on Meet The Press several months ago when he commented that the Republican Party has become power-hungry and that's what they hated about the Democrats when the GOP took control in the early 90s. They've become that which they despised.

Have my ideals changed? No. The parties are changing.


Agreed. The question remains as to how this will play out however....it's unfortunate most of the voting public will not consider third party options. The clearest message we could send to the democrats and republicans is to totally ignore them. But I doubt that will happen as long as people get their political knowledge from 30 second soundbytes from Crossfire or O'Reilly Factor.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days.
Ok this is scary...twice in one day I completely agree with conjur
Shouldn't be scary.

Many up here take my grand distaste of Bush as meaning I'm total a liberal, a communist, a Saddam-lover, etc. That's just bunk. I've been a Republican my entire adult life. But, it seems the GOP and its current stance is pushing me more and more toward the Democratic party (even though there are stances there with which I don't agree). I just feel the GOP has lost its way. Just as Newt said on Meet The Press several months ago when he commented that the Republican Party has become power-hungry and that's what they hated about the Democrats when the GOP took control in the early 90s. They've become that which they despised.

Have my ideals changed? No. The parties are changing.


Agreed. The question remains as to how this will play out however....it's unfortunate most of the voting public will not consider third party options. The clearest message we could send to the democrats and republicans is to totally ignore them. But I doubt that will happen as long as people get their political knowledge from 30 second soundbytes from Crossfire or O'Reilly Factor.

I only wish. I'm a Republican (and a Christian) and I have voted for 3rd party candidates the past two elections. Both parties have been complete turn-offs for me. Bush is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. His dad was at least intelligent and cautious with his actions.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: bamacre

I only wish. I'm a Republican (and a Christian) and I have voted for 3rd party candidates the past two elections. Both parties have been complete turn-offs for me. Bush is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. His dad was at least intelligent and cautious with his actions.

So your vote has been useless, good for you :roll:
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
Working in the Social Security Administration for a summer definately opened my eyes to that subject....I was able to see people who it almost broke my heart to see them living how they were, but then also people that made me raging made with their almost flippant and flagrant abuse of the system.

..............

I above all want a moderate (from either party) who actually cares more about the american people than his bank account, political ideologies, radical big-donating constituents.....and that doesnt think big government = utopian nirvana.

I couldn't agree more, but it seems that both sides want to use these issues as hot buttons to win votes and don't really have the interests of the average joe in mind.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,685
6,195
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Somewhere along the line, things changed. I'm fascinated by the endless string of editorials and links from the left-wing google-mongers here, because the attitude of today's liberal seems vastly different than the attitude of yesterday's liberal wingnuts from the 30s, 40s, and 50s. I guess the only way for them to become a power in the marketplace of ideas was to sell out. That worked for a while... but it's becoming painfully obvious that the gig is up because they have no ideological base to stand on. (Hence the political decline of liberalism in the past 10-20 years).

Whereas the crusading spirit that advocated a planned society, and talking in terms of abstract principles, theories, and noble ends was the norm, today modern leftists concern themselves with single, concrete-bound, range-of-the-moment projects and demands without regard to the larger context, costs, or consequences. Notice the same hardened Libs continuously posting links that supposedly "prove a point"... but that's the problem. They're all pragmatic, extremely narrow evaluations of a singular situation. "Bagdad Police Chief Killed" and So-and-So lectures Bush" etc....

Such a strategy may win a few brownie points here-and-there with some people. But what is never developed is the old-fashioned ideological framework. This is the Catch-22 the Left is in today. They can abandon the broad social reforms of their predessesors (because most people will reject the philosophical foundation outright), but eventually their asymmetrical strategy to "smuggle" this society into welfare statism by means of single, concrete, specific measures, enlarging the power of the government a step at a time, never permitting the whole of these steps to be summed up into principles, never permitting their direction to be identified or their underlying base to be exposed crumbles and fails... just as their political influence has deteriorated recently.

They are damned if they do and damned if they don't, and it's almost sad to see them spinning their wheels so furiously in a dead-end road to nowhere. They went from getting their idealistic machinations skewered 50 years ago, to a guerilla campaign of pragmaticism that saw their polices fall short and be rejected today. So much failure, no wonder they tend to be neurotic types

Basically, they are doomed to repeat their past frustrations and will continue to collapse. During the cold war, they proclaimed their love for mankind while being bored by the rivers of blood pouring from the Soviet Union and China. Ranging from intellectual evasion to glowing tribute towards Communists, they pointed their little barbs at the US for reasons of "injustice," "exploitation," "repression," and "persecution." Today, they are no different. They pour out range-of-the-moment, pragmatitic arguments (as evidenced here on P&N) against the USA, while generally remaining silent -and in most ways oblivious to- the nature of our enemy. The more things change, the more things stay the same... once again doomed to be on the wrong side of history.

How true, liberalism is dying just like the human race. Evil has won and the human spirit has died. All that is left is the gloating of the false ego. For humanity there is nothing; only here and there will a man be saved for the truth is in the last and least likely place that anybody will ever look. It lies in a place that is completely and totally useless and worthless and that could never be you.

PS. Your requiem was a projection.

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bamacre

I only wish. I'm a Republican (and a Christian) and I have voted for 3rd party candidates the past two elections. Both parties have been complete turn-offs for me. Bush is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. His dad was at least intelligent and cautious with his actions.

So your vote has been useless, good for you :roll:

I'm not going to vote for a candidate I cannot stand. Other than not voting, what choice would I have?

If other people like me would turn their nose at the horrendous candidates given to us by the two parties, this country would be better off. If you want to follow the Bush/Kerry herd, fine, be a good little sheep, learn how to say "bahhh," over and over.
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bamacre

I only wish. I'm a Republican (and a Christian) and I have voted for 3rd party candidates the past two elections. Both parties have been complete turn-offs for me. Bush is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. His dad was at least intelligent and cautious with his actions.

So your vote has been useless, good for you :roll:

Keep rolllin with the herd there good buddy. "OMG gotta vote repub or demo because their the only ones that count!!"

well ya, as long as you and everyone else share that outlook, of course votes will be wasted.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: Centinel
Sorry for the rant, I just figured I would try to explain myself better....I tend to be on the "other" side from most posters here because I quite frankly find a veeeeery large bias here towards the left. What I mean by bias is a inherent ability to see every single flaw in the right, ignore any of the good from the right, and ignore any problems of the left.
The trouble with the right, though, is the momentum of the GOP is to move further and further to the right. That *should* mean greater fiscal responsibility as well as socially conservative. However, what we're seeing is the fiscal aspect being tossed aside in a dangerous manner and the social conservatism deepening. This is relatively new ground in modern times and it threatens this nation on a number of fronts.

At the same time, there are some in the DNC that want to moderate from the more socially-minded.

Is this the beginning to a true 3-party system with far-right, a middle, and far-left parties? Could be. That may be a good thing but it may be a bad thing. IMO, extremism on any side is bad. Moderation is the key which is why many up here find the Republican party reprehensible these days.


Ok this is scary...twice in one day I completely agree with conjur

Funny how that now that the election is over with and the partisianship is out of the way how a really good discussion happens. Don't you think so?

The problem with a third party is the lack of funding. They really don't have a snowflakes chance in hell until they can compete with the two major parties. I personally think that the campaigne finance laws should be thrown out the windo and we should start all over. No corporate donations, only money from individuals. Every dime spent should be accounted for as to it's origin. How hard can that really be to do?

Then a third party would have a more level playing field on which to compete. Then I would hop on their bandwagon and maybe we could get some good, common sense poiticians elected. That is one of the big reasons why I am such a Rabid Bush Hater. His Daddies connections brought him everything he needed to defeat McCain, who should have been the parties canidate IMO. I'm really tired of having the best president that money can buy. We have a lot of really good people in this country and the choice we get is always the guy who raised the most campaign funds?? In Bush's case, it's like a dynasty. I wonder when one of his other brothers will be running?

Doesn't anybody else see how out of control this has gotten?

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: bamacre

I only wish. I'm a Republican (and a Christian) and I have voted for 3rd party candidates the past two elections. Both parties have been complete turn-offs for me. Bush is an idiot, and a dangerous one at that. His dad was at least intelligent and cautious with his actions.

So your vote has been useless, good for you :roll:

Keep rolllin with the herd there good buddy. "OMG gotta vote repub or demo because their the only ones that count!!"

well ya, as long as you and everyone else share that outlook, of course votes will be wasted.

I think he's just upset that a Christian Republican doesn't like Bush. I don't fit into that stereotype he like to bring up, and it's killing him.
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
1EZduzzit:

What really pissed me off about this last election was how the Libertarian and Green candidates were left out of the debates even after petitioning to be included.

Hey, they may have been looney, but they have should have the opportunity to be looney on national TV just like Bush and Kerry.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
1EZduzzit:

What really pissed me off about this last election was how the Libertarian and Green candidates were left out of the debates even after petitioning to be included.

Hey, they may have been looney, but they have should have the opportunity to be looney on national TV just like Bush and Kerry.

It's a classic case of "Money talks and Bulls**t walks". Literally.
 
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