In the market for a cargo van or truck + cargo trailer (6/15/17 bump)

[Ns1]

8/3/17

So everytime I'm finally ready to drive up with cash the vans get sold first. I'm off to do this once again tomorrow, unless the van is sold first.

This time the van in question is a 2003 E-350 v10. Will I regret the fuel economy of the v10 over a v8? This won't be a daily driver and I'm really doing this in anticipation of buying a trailer in the future. A v8 would be sufficient for my cargo trailer needs, but might be under powered for a travel trailer.

Decisions decisions...

7/7/17 update

Guys I need your advice: I'm fairly close to buying a 2012 Chevy Express 3500 Passenger van. Based on the feedback from this thread and others, I wanted the passenger van for the rear A/C for dogs. HOWEVER, I have recently found out that the 2012 has rear passenger side curtain airbags. I would need to remove these or disable them from the system in order to build out the back.

So now my options become: buy the passenger van and remove the rear airbags, buy a cargo van and install a rear A/C option, or buy an older passenger van that doesn't have rear airbags (or other related safety enhancements).

Thoughts?

unverified post from some other forum:

On the newer Chevy AND TRANSIT passenger vans, per Van Specialties, they run throughout the length of both sides of the vans on the passenger models and can't be worked around safely for top cutting/modification.

6/15/17
So we were about to buy a newer van, but all our money is going to vet bills so we had to scrap that real quick. Any comments on these two vans?

2002 Chevy Express 2500

2000 Chevy Express 3500


OP:

I have never owned a truck, nor have I ever pulled a trailer. Yet I find myself at a point in my life where I need a truck and a trailer regularly.

Use cases:
- Set up info booth at various events, 1-3 canopies + supporting equipment
- Transport dogs (10+ travel kennels after installing some type of ventilation solution; need to transport 10-15 dogs total)
- Long distances (From AZ -> WA possible, maybe even further)

We rented a van for last weekend's event. I accidentally got this van a year ago and said we'd never need something so big. Damn things change quick.

It became rapidly apparent that to transport this many dogs we need a proper multi dog kennel system or consistently sized travel kennel w/tie down; we just have so much stuff that stacking becomes necessary.

While renting makes sense financially, since we can't customize the interior it makes the interior space very inefficient for our purposes. Our choices are now a cargo van or cargo trailer.

What's easier to customize the interior of, a cargo van or cargo trailer?

This is "only" 10 dogs:

//photobucket links removed

 

[NutBucket]

I don't get your last comment. If a van fits your need better then why get a truck + trailer? Plus a van could pull either of those trailers.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't get your last comment. If a van fits your need better then why get a truck + trailer? Plus a van could pull either of those trailers.

I've never pulled a trailer, and I'd prefer keeping it that way. With a trailer, you always have an extra 'thing' to keep track of behind you, and it affects parking, and maneuvering in tight areas. You also pay more in tolls. If it were me, I'd think of outfitting a truck/van with the required racks to haul what's needed, and go with a trailer as a last resort.

 

[Meghan54]

I don't get your last comment. If a van fits your need better then why get a truck + trailer? Plus a van could pull either of those trailers.

The question then becomes.....have you ever driven one of those vans? I have, for about 6 months straight, and they're horrid. I bought one on the premise you're suggesting and it lasted 6 months with me before I got rid of it. The wheel well intrudes into the driver's foot space so badly you have to contort yourself to have both feet in the foot "well". Unloaded, it rode significantly worse than an unloaded pickup, such as my Silverado I currently own. It was noisier...engine shares the passenger compartment vs. a pickup's engine entirely forward of the firewall. Gas mileage was worse, both empty and loaded because the van's heavier than a comparable pickup.

I'd take the truck any day over that van, or pretty much any similar full-sized van, as the OP suggested.

That said, OP, consider a few things. Personally, I'd look for a truck that's been fairly unmolested. I know they're hard to find, but I'd trust a maintained "stock" pickup over one that's had some "performance" mods done to it....such as the Toyota's K&N filter--in my mind one of the worst examples. Its Flowmaster muffler will drone noticeably, esp. when towing, and its peak of droning will always be right at that speed that you want to drive down the highway. Never fails. Lived with one for a little, hated it in the end and was glad it was gone.

The Dodge does scream its red. RED. And I'm more of a GM truck fan, anyway, so take my critiques of Dodge, Ford, Toyota, etc., with a grain of salt.

Look for a crew cab. Only. With your use pattern, esp. with dogs, you'll regret any other cab configuration. Sometimes I wish I'd gotten an extended cab instead of the reg. cab my truck has, but I do love my truck.

A crew cab config. will probably cost a few hundred pounds in trailer tow capacity but will prob. give you a little higher cargo capacity in return.

But you wanted to know about towing. I recreationally tow, currently have a 17' Javelin F&S w/115 Johnson on the back and a 6 x 10 single axle Pace enclosed trailer, similar to the one in your advert. I've towed for a few decades, so some thoughts.

Let's use my truck, an '03 Silverado, which is a reg cab, reg. box (6.5') truck with a 5.3L V-8 and 3.73 rear axle. It has a tow capacity of 8400#. It has a GVWR of 6100#. (GVWR=Gross Vehicle Weight Rating--includes the vehicle's curb weight + passengers + cargo capacity.)

GM rates the truck at its max. tow capacity with a driver and passenger in the cab. Different manufacturers include or exclude a passenger in tow capacity calculations, and it can make a difference.

And that's because every pound of cargo you put into the tow vehicle beyond how it was rated decreases your tow capacity by an equivalent amount.

Or, as my owner's manual puts it:

"Maximum trailer weight is calculated assuming the driver and one passenger are in the tow vehicle and it has all the required trailering equipment. The weight of additional optional equipment, passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from the maximum trailer weight."

Next, you have to consider tongue weight, the weight put on the hitch by the tongue of the trailer. The tongue weight of the trailer should, as a general rule, be 10-15% of the total loaded trailer weight. So, for instance, a trailer that weighs 4000# fully loaded should have a tongue weight of 400-600#.

Now, the tongue weight is directly carried by the vehicle, so it is cargo load and must be accounted for. But I'd think it'd only become significant if you plan on towing loads approaching max. rating of the vehicle. Still, it has to be accounted for when loading the vehicle...it directly impacts the load capacity of the vehicle. Don't ask me how one tows a trailer at my truck's max. tow capacity, though. Have never figured that out.

But I tend to deduct 20% from listed tow capacities to arrive at what I feel comfortable towing on a vehicle. That gives me some cargo capacity and some "safety" room.

As for the tow vehicle, if it doesn't have a separate, auxillary transmission fluid cooler installed, to that. I also recommend upgrading the brake pads to a more aggressive type pad vs. the typical ceramic pads out there. I'm currently running EBC yellow stuff truck pads in front, Hawk LTS pads on the rear. Much better initial bite than most other pads I've used and takes a lot more to fade the EBC's.

Dual axle trailers pull better/straighter/don't dance/sway as much as single axle trailers.

Practice before going out. The trailer will cut corners and if you're not familiar with that, you may end up cutting the wrong corner too closely. Requires a tad different driving, like wider turns, etc.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Both trailers in the op are overpriced by a $1000. An enclosed dual axle trailer offers far more utility. You need to pay attention to balancing your load and proper tire pressure on the trailer. It's not a matter of filling it up and hitting the road whichever trailer you choose. I pulled a 14 foot enclosed trailer with a Chevy G10 van for years with very few problems. A decent frame mounted hitch as opposed to a bumper pull makes a world of difference.

 

[Ns1]

I don't get your last comment. If a van fits your need better then why get a truck + trailer? Plus a van could pull either of those trailers.

Comfort? At a 10k budget, that'll get me a 2007ish Chevy express 2500 with 150k miles that's not super beat up. Seems like with that same budget, I can get a lot more trailer/truck and it would be easier to allocate the truck/trailers to my various businesses.

It's also way easier to drive a truck than a large cargo van IMO, but I've never towed so hence this thread.

 

[Triumph]

Pulling trailers is fun, and not going to dissuade you, but one thing to remember if you are driving alot, is that your mileage REALLY goes to shit. If you're buying it intended to drive from Arizona to Washington, you'll be stopping every 200-250 miles to fill up. Just something to consider versus getting a cargo van. There's a lot of cool things to be said for a Chevy Express or even something like a Ford Transit Connect. But that probably wouldn't work for something as large as dog kennels.

 

[Ns1]

Transit connect-size vans are no longer suitable for us. I'd have to get a trailer still and they can only tow ~2k pounds.

If I buy a truck I can also theoretically use it as a DD. Sorry I'm not using a cargo van as a DD.

 

[Fenixgoon]

motivated seller!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nc88_ZEfxg

 

[Triumph]

Well the type of trailer is simple. If you want to secure cargo, get enclosed. If you want to load and unload large items often, like cars, mulch, junk, etc get open trailer. It's so much easier to tie things down and move yourself around with an open trailer. With enclosed you first have to really figure out "will it fit", and then you're crawling around and over and under things inside a dark box, squeezing between the walls trying to get to tie down points.

And enclosed is harder to back up because visibility, but that shouldn't dissuade you - learning to back up is part of the responsibility that comes with buying a trailer.

I don't know a thing about dogs, but pulling them around in an open trailer sounds like a bad idea?

 

[Ns1]

Updated w/ use case pictures

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I'd buy a used Pentastar equipped Grand Caravan with Stow and Go or remove all rear seats for a flat floor. It will be a comfortable travel cruiser, much more so than a Chevy Express.

If you remove the seats, you can then use the stow and go space for more cargo

I'd then customize with creating a two layer storage system with custom shelves. I'd put all non-living cargo on the floor and then put the crates on the 2nd level

If that still is not enough space - look at a "tall van". Ford Transit, Nissan NV, Dodge ProMaster. If your budget is unlimited - Mercedes Sprinter Diesel.

 

[Ns1]

I'll take another look at the Dodges

Sprinter is too baller but the Mercedes Metris Worker cargo van looks perfect. I'm actually going to contact them to see what their commercial leases are like.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I'll take another look at the Dodges

Sprinter is too baller but the Mercedes Metris Worker cargo van looks perfect. I'm actually going to contact them to see what their commercial leases are like.

Ballin - http://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Merced...ash=item33cbc6eb91:g:l~YAAOSw3utY4my7&vxp=mtr

 

[Ns1]

Yeah that's way too much. A base model is 24k msrp and gets something like 25mpg and can tow 5k

 

[jlee]

I would go for the van. If you're transporting animals in Arizona, you need to be really damn sure that you don't have an AC failure in your trailer (not to mention you need a trailer with AC).

 

[Ns1]

bump. update in OP.

 

[NutBucket]

I'd go for the cheaper one but the rust spots above the windshield concern me a bit.

 

[Ns1]

7/7/17 dilemma.

 

[lxskllr]

I'd remove the bags, or maybe simply pull the fuses if it's that easy. It sometimes is.

 

[Ns1]

The bags go from front to back. Meaning if I remove the rear side curtain airbags I lose the front side curtain airbags.

So I think I'm going to leave it alone and build around it....

 

[pbroussard]

Check some of the rental places they typically sell 1-2 year old vehicles for good prices. Guy I work with got a ram Promaster 2500 for 17K a year or so ago, huge and gets pretty decent milage for something big.

 

[Ns1]

The van I'm looking at is 10.5. Cheapest promaster I found was 18. Cheapest high roof transit I found was 24.

Cheapest sprinter I found was like 15k with 250k miles.

Also funny story, I rented a promaster city from enterprise. Took it up north and back, managed to turn on the CEL and it bricked on me just as I got home.

 

[Yuriman]

My 2 cents:

I drive a 2016 Express 2500 (4.8 v8) for work. I dunno what others are getting on about with legroom for the driver, seems pretty spacious to me. It doesn't handle terribly well, isn't particularly quiet, but the seats aren't half bad and it has more than adequate power. The transmission has very sensible gearing - I've had a couple of tanks in excess of 20mpg, with ladders on the roof, just by seting the cruise control to 55. Without ladders you might get as high as 23-25mpg on the highway.

 

[Ns1]

v8 or v10....