In the USA do people still run around with a confederate flag?

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: YoshiSato
Them traitors who wave the confederate flag should be shot for what they are.

TRAITORS!. You LOST THE WAR, GET OVER IT.









BTW do you know the nazi flag has been outlawed in Germany.

We have freedom of speech and expression. You're sounding like you don't know enough about the flag.

Germany is not a good role model when it comes to freedom.

Not everyone who puts the flag on his car supports slavery. It is Southern pride to many. I've seen Europeans wear it, Asians wear and people all over the world wear it. To some it is a symbol of rebellion.

Asians? I guess freedom of speech does give you the ability to make stuff up.

I've seen. Other people have seen it. Read a book, or two. Read up on the flag before you sound ignorant.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Wow... Only on ATOT do people say that slave owners were better than Nazis...

They weren't?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: YoshiSato
Them traitors who wave the confederate flag should be shot for what they are.

TRAITORS!. You LOST THE WAR, GET OVER IT.









BTW do you know the nazi flag has been outlawed in Germany.

Good thing I don't live in germany!

 

[zerolus]

I've seen hillbillies with the confederate flag before on their truck... while listening to rap/hip-hop

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Wow... Only on ATOT do people say that slave owners were better than Nazis...

Actually, you'll hear that all throughout an educated society.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Wow... Only on ATOT do people say that slave owners were better than Nazis...

I will recycle a post from another thread here and say that not only did one have to pay for the slave (western civ book says around $1800 in the mid 1800s currency for a field worker, non artisan) but one also had to pay for housing, food, and other expenses to protect the investment. Also, the major slave owners were capitalist businessmen and it was not in their best of interests to subject them to extreme abuse or starve them to the point of being unproductive or die (and lose their investment).

BTW, adjusted for inflation, how much is $1800 in 1850 currency now?

If they had hired some impoverished free southerners to work in the fields and perform artisan work (rather than importing slaves), most southerners would not have been impoverished as badly as they were. Hence one of the reasons I am completely against slavery and would have been against it back then as well.

To lump all southerners into a group of slave owners is just wrong and it shows how stereotypical one can be. The majority of southerners did not own slaves and the vast majority that had slaves did not own many. But, the few ones that held 100+ slaves were the ones with all the money and political power.

Whites were not the only ones to use slaves:Q

Black Americans continued to hold slaves through the Civil War. In 1860, some 3,000 blacks owned nearly 20,000 black slaves. In South Carolina alone, more than 10,000 blacks were owned by black slaveholders.

 

[Maximilian]

Ok then.... so its overall a bad flag as many associate it with slavery, but not on the same level as the swastica which is associated with... everything...bad.

I actually have a confederate flag, it looks nice and has similarities with the union jack of britain. I dont support slavery though, unless its called "forced labour" and applied to prisoners. They should be put to good use, we already pay to have them locked up, why not have them locked up mining coal instead. Productive plan Everyone wins

 

[Excelsior]

Well, not much else to be said in this thread, eh?

 

[mobobuff]

Well, I can't speak for the entire USA, but I can certainly speak for Western Michigan. Here, if you're flying a Confederate flag, you're most likely openly racist and in a low income bracket.

It's an avatar for different things in different areas. In my area I dislike the people who display them because I hate what it stands for in this area. If you try to call me a hypocrite for hating someone I don't know, then I must express that around this area there are only small towns, and in a small town you know everyone. I've talked to these people, and they'd be glad to tell you they're openly racist.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Well, I can't speak for the entire USA, but I can certainly speak for Western Michigan. Here, if you're flying a Confederate flag, you're most likely openly racist and in a low income bracket.

It's an avatar for different things in different areas. In my area I dislike the people who display them because I hate what it stands for in this area. If you try to call me a hypocrite for hating someone I don't know, then I must express that around this area there are only small towns, and in a small town you know everyone. I've talked to these people, and they'd be glad to tell you they're openly racist.

I must say, I find it odd that someone would be flying the confederate flag in Western Michigan.

 

[mobobuff]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Well, I can't speak for the entire USA, but I can certainly speak for Western Michigan. Here, if you're flying a Confederate flag, you're most likely openly racist and in a low income bracket.

It's an avatar for different things in different areas. In my area I dislike the people who display them because I hate what it stands for in this area. If you try to call me a hypocrite for hating someone I don't know, then I must express that around this area there are only small towns, and in a small town you know everyone. I've talked to these people, and they'd be glad to tell you they're openly racist.

I must say, I find it odd that someone would be flying the confederate flag in Western Michigan.

That's because you're from an area where its meaning is entirely different (more accurate to its origins) from the meaning it has here. Those who fly it here probably couldn't tell you the flag's true history, they're just raised in an ignorant family that passes down ignorant and illfounded beliefs.

 

[RallyMaster]

saw one on an old lady's car

 

[montanafan]

I had one on my bedroom wall back when I was in junior high. I didn't give racism a thought. It was to show that I was a rebel.

I understand all the arguments about it being a symbol of rebellion, regional pride, heritage, etc., but it seems that most of the people you see displaying it these days are the type who embrace its message of racism.

 

[djheater]

Wow, another "Confederate Flag question, turns into civil war thread, which is promplty Godwin'd"

Stick a fork in this one boys, she's done.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: mobobuff
Well, I can't speak for the entire USA, but I can certainly speak for Western Michigan. Here, if you're flying a Confederate flag, you're most likely openly racist and in a low income bracket.

It's an avatar for different things in different areas. In my area I dislike the people who display them because I hate what it stands for in this area. If you try to call me a hypocrite for hating someone I don't know, then I must express that around this area there are only small towns, and in a small town you know everyone. I've talked to these people, and they'd be glad to tell you they're openly racist.

I must say, I find it odd that someone would be flying the confederate flag in Western Michigan.

That's because you're from an area where its meaning is entirely different (more accurate to its origins) from the meaning it has here. Those who fly it here probably couldn't tell you the flag's true history, they're just raised in an ignorant family that passes down ignorant and illfounded beliefs.

Most likely.

 

[cker]

(Rant)

I'm originally from Mississippi, and have lived in the South all my life. The Dixie banner we're talking about is the Confederate battle flag, or Rebel Flag. It means different things to different people. I have a cousin to whom it means a rich tradition of Southern heritage and the steadfast bravery of men fighting for what they think was right. I have a coworker to whom it signifies the military arm of a splinter state which wanted to institutionalize his forebears' social status as chattel.

Regardless of what you mean when you fly that flag, as a symbol it's been taken on by white supremacists and neo-nazis all over the country. Even if, like my cousin, it means heritage to you, the symbology has been poisoned. The key point to me, though, is that I can think of no other nation so dedicated to freedom of speech that it permits the open presentation and honor of a flag from a failed rebellion. While I'm Southern, I'm American and I don't think the Confederate flags have any place except in history books. The rebellion failed. If you want to show you're a rebel, get your nose pierced or dye your eyebrows or something.

I'd also take issue with the dismissive comments on Southern tactics and military cunning. The whole Civil War affair started for many reasons, not the least among them being the rising economic influence of the Southern states on the national scene. The South, though, was agricultural, with a pitiful manufacturing capacity, a minimal transportation network, and little in the way of logistical capacity to support a standing army. On top of this was the Union's naval efforts to blockade the South starting in 1861. Lee managed to hold out until 1865, and the South only really fell after the Union took up a scorched-earth approach and started putting the few urban centers of the South to the torch.

Lee was the worst possible thing that could have happened to the South in the Civil War. Without him, it would have probably been over by 1863 at latest, and the South would not have had to suffer through the Reconstruction so terribly. Not that there's much room to complain; we're just lucky that the Reconstruction didn't foment enough additional resentment and spark a followup (since we've spoken of Germany, arguably the Nazis would not have been able to seize power in Germany if it weren't for the desperate condition Germany was in after the Treaty of Versailles basically gutted the country's economy).

But to the main point -- I consider myself Southern very deeply. And as a Southerner, if there's one thing I find it impossible not to love, it's a lost cause. But for all of that, toting around a battle flag from a rebellion that was put down over 100 years ago is just ridiculous. It's like some Italian ranting that "Spartacus gon' rise again!" Besides, regardless of heritage, any government that promotes racial slavery isn't one to get nostalgic over.

(end rant)

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Babbles
Small difference?

Either you are being argumentative just to be argumentative, or you have no shred of knowledge of historical events.

I'm not going to go out and say slavery was a good thing (but I am sure some clueless knucklehead will think that) but the situation of the Antebellum south in the United States was massively different than the Nazi rise to power.

It's just utter idiocy that you would even attempt to compare the two situations.

It is a pretty small difference considering how horrible slave owners treated their slaves, and how horribly Jews were treated until they were killed. But the slaves worked their entire lives until they dropped dead from working. It's not a day/night difference.

Right, because slave owners gassed and otherwise murdered BEELEEONS of slaves and did things like make rugs out of their hair and stuff.

Yeah, slave owners are on the same level as Nazi's. Completely ignore the fact that many slave owners treated their slaves very, very well. :roll:

You're just pathetic aren't you.

The Jews and the slaves are totally different situations. You are making slavery a minor thing. Stop it.

This is what creates conflicts between whites and blacks. White people just don't understand.

As for you saying that the slave owners treated slaves very well ...

I think I'm just going to barf ...

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Nik
They're absolutely nowhere near being similar. The idea ... I'm dumbfounded. I really am. How the hell can you equate the two? You... jesus. :disgust:

Let's see... loss of heritage, torn from families, beaten, raped, killed, forced labor, almost complete loss of human dignity, based almost always on racism and prejudice.

These people here don't understand that.

People here are actually saying that slave owners were nice people who treated their slaves nicely.

What is going on?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: raildogg
You're just pathetic aren't you.

The Jews and the slaves are totally different situations. You are making slavery a minor thing. Stop it.

This is what creates conflicts between whites and blacks. White people just don't understand.

As for you saying that the slave owners treated slaves very well ...

I think I'm just going to barf ...

I'm not making slavory a minor thing. However, compared to the fvcking holocaust, slavory was a walk in the park.

Whites just don't understand? Understand WHAT? Understand that blacks continue, to this day, to push the slavory issue that ended more than a hundred fvcking years ago? Are there any slaves alive today? No. Are there any slave owners alive today? No. Are there any people alive who's parents were slave owners or slaves? No. Quit bringing up the goddamn slavory issue because it's IN THE FVCKING PAST. It's DONE WITH. Settled. Finished.

Also, you can't seem to read very well. I said "many." The word "many" does not imply any certain percentage, much less imply all of them. Did you fail out of public school or something?

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: raildogg
You're just pathetic aren't you.

The Jews and the slaves are totally different situations. You are making slavery a minor thing. Stop it.

This is what creates conflicts between whites and blacks. White people just don't understand.

As for you saying that the slave owners treated slaves very well ...

I think I'm just going to barf ...

I'm not making slavory a minor thing. However, compared to the fvcking holocaust, slavory was a walk in the park.

Whites just don't understand? Understand WHAT? Understand that blacks continue, to this day, to push the slavory issue that ended more than a hundred fvcking years ago? Are there any slaves alive today? No. Are there any slave owners alive today? No. Are there any people alive who's parents were slave owners or slaves? No. Quit bringing up the goddamn slavory issue because it's IN THE FVCKING PAST. It's DONE WITH. Settled. Finished.

Also, you can't seem to read very well. I said "many." The word "many" does not imply any certain percentage, much less imply all of them. Did you fail out of public school or something?

Typical American. Looking at what they see and not looking at what isn't apparent.

A walk in a park? Generation after generation having their basic rights taken away is a walk in a park? Shame on you. Yes, I read that. Even when compared to the holocaust, this in no way is the term you just used.

I don't blame blacks for using this issue. You have to remember that whites have kept blacks down up until the 1960s, not 100 years ago. In the South, they are still being held back in certain places.

It just means that misery goes from one generation to the other with very little improvement. Blacks have to work that much harder than others to "catch up". Many cannot do it.

Slavery happened and America should be ashamed of that. Forever.

It was only recently where open racism was gotten rid of and laws were changed. It was only recently that state sponsored racism was abolished. Don't tell me it was hundreds of years ago or even a hundred years ago. Racism is still here in this country.

But go on and preach to us, from Oregon, how much of a walk in the park slavery was ...

 

[imported_Mike]

I wouldn't waste your time with Nik, unless your time is worthless.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Nik
They're absolutely nowhere near being similar. The idea ... I'm dumbfounded. I really am. How the hell can you equate the two? You... jesus. :disgust:

Let's see... loss of heritage, torn from families, beaten, raped, killed, forced labor, almost complete loss of human dignity, based almost always on racism and prejudice.

These people here don't understand that.

People here are actually saying that slave owners were nice people who treated their slaves nicely.

What is going on?

Don't group all of us together here.

I never once said that slave owners were nice people or that they treated their slaves nicely.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: raildogg
You're just pathetic aren't you.

The Jews and the slaves are totally different situations. You are making slavery a minor thing. Stop it.

This is what creates conflicts between whites and blacks. White people just don't understand.

As for you saying that the slave owners treated slaves very well ...

I think I'm just going to barf ...

I'm not making slavory a minor thing. However, compared to the fvcking holocaust, slavory was a walk in the park.

Whites just don't understand? Understand WHAT? Understand that blacks continue, to this day, to push the slavory issue that ended more than a hundred fvcking years ago? Are there any slaves alive today? No. Are there any slave owners alive today? No. Are there any people alive who's parents were slave owners or slaves? No. Quit bringing up the goddamn slavory issue because it's IN THE FVCKING PAST. It's DONE WITH. Settled. Finished.

Also, you can't seem to read very well. I said "many." The word "many" does not imply any certain percentage, much less imply all of them. Did you fail out of public school or something?

Typical American. Looking at what they see and not looking at what isn't apparent.

A walk in a park? Generation after generation having their basic rights taken away is a walk in a park? Shame on you. Yes, I read that. Even when compared to the holocaust, this in no way is the term you just used.

I don't blame blacks for using this issue. You have to remember that whites have kept blacks down up until the 1960s, not 100 years ago. In the South, they are still being held back in certain places.

It just means that misery goes from one generation to the other with very little improvement. Blacks have to work that much harder than others to "catch up". Many cannot do it.

Slavery happened and America should be ashamed of that. Forever.

It was only recently where open racism was gotten rid of and laws were changed. It was only recently that state sponsored racism was abolished. Don't tell me it was hundreds of years ago or even a hundred years ago. Racism is still here in this country.

But go on and preach to us, from Oregon, how much of a walk in the park slavery was ...

You're black, aren't you?

State sponsored racism is abolished? hahaha. Ever heard of Affirmative Action? That's legal discrimination/racism, and it's favoring everyone but the whites.

If all you're going to do is take what I say out of context and babbling on with your self-perpetuating close minded nonsense, then have it your way. I have better things to do than argue with someone like you.

Sleep well, though. Dream of the almighty under-privilaged black man overtaking and destroying whitey!

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: raildogg
You're just pathetic aren't you.

The Jews and the slaves are totally different situations. You are making slavery a minor thing. Stop it.

This is what creates conflicts between whites and blacks. White people just don't understand.

As for you saying that the slave owners treated slaves very well ...

I think I'm just going to barf ...

I'm not making slavory a minor thing. However, compared to the fvcking holocaust, slavory was a walk in the park.

Whites just don't understand? Understand WHAT? Understand that blacks continue, to this day, to push the slavory issue that ended more than a hundred fvcking years ago? Are there any slaves alive today? No. Are there any slave owners alive today? No. Are there any people alive who's parents were slave owners or slaves? No. Quit bringing up the goddamn slavory issue because it's IN THE FVCKING PAST. It's DONE WITH. Settled. Finished.

Also, you can't seem to read very well. I said "many." The word "many" does not imply any certain percentage, much less imply all of them. Did you fail out of public school or something?

Typical American. Looking at what they see and not looking at what isn't apparent.

A walk in a park? Generation after generation having their basic rights taken away is a walk in a park? Shame on you. Yes, I read that. Even when compared to the holocaust, this in no way is the term you just used.

I don't blame blacks for using this issue. You have to remember that whites have kept blacks down up until the 1960s, not 100 years ago. In the South, they are still being held back in certain places.

It just means that misery goes from one generation to the other with very little improvement. Blacks have to work that much harder than others to "catch up". Many cannot do it.

Slavery happened and America should be ashamed of that. Forever.

It was only recently where open racism was gotten rid of and laws were changed. It was only recently that state sponsored racism was abolished. Don't tell me it was hundreds of years ago or even a hundred years ago. Racism is still here in this country.

But go on and preach to us, from Oregon, how much of a walk in the park slavery was ...

You're black, aren't you?

State sponsored racism is abolished? hahaha. Ever heard of Affirmative Action? That's legal discrimination/racism, and it's favoring everyone but the whites.

If all you're going to do is take what I say out of context and babbling on with your self-perpetuating close minded nonsense, then have it your way. I have better things to do than argue with someone like you.

Sleep well, though. Dream of the almighty under-privilaged black man overtaking and destroying whitey!

No, I'm not black. Thank you for your assumptions.

I've been called a white racist, a neo-con and finally a black. I love it though. But what if I were? What would that change? How would this argument be any different?

And the black man cannot destroy whitey because he controls everything in America.

*waits patiently for you to bring up Dick Parsons or the President of BET ...

AA is basically the government admitting its mistakes and is now embarrasingly trying to correct the problem the incorrect way by creating more hostility.

You're a whiney dude aren't you?

Continue to assume that anyway who doesn't feel this way is automatically black, a hippie or some other group you have something against. Or don't have something against but lump into that group anyway.

Oh, want to have that argument about that hispanic teen who got beat up by those two white guys?

Oh right, if only he had not kissed the girl they wouldn't have to severely beat him up ...

 

[Conky]

Without reading any of this thread, I want a confederate flag tattoo as my very first(and probably last) tattoo.

I like the idea because, 1) It's cool. 2) people and the media tell me I should hate white people or people who like white people, 3) I met a really cool old black man who was totally pissed that people had perverted the confederate flag into a racist thing and was proud to see that flag. I think that last reason really did it for me.

Plus, I love the south... I was never meant to live in the arctic of Chicago. I met a very wise man once... he said that one can not control where they are born but where they die is up to them. I hope to die in a very warm place. :beer: