"In Virginia at the age of 13, you can buy a revolver at a supermarket."

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GeezerMan

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2005
2,145
26
91
From the second amendment foundation on the web


Many Gun control advocates cite statistics that seem to show an epidemic of children dying due to gun-related violence. On the surface, 4,000 children dying per year is a very disturbing trend. However, one must delve into the statistics to realize that these gun-control advocates are misleading the public. The definition of children used when finding these statistics includes people 20 years old or younger, and some groups actually use the age 23 as a cut-off for a child. Using these misleading definitions, the numbers are about 11 killed per day. Of course, if you use what most people consider to be children as a cutoff - say ten years old - the number drops to .4 deaths per day. While still not perfect, it is a far sight better than the 11 that gun-control advocates want people to believe. Why is there such a huge difference? When including the upper ranges of the teenage bracket, gun deaths jump. This is due in large part to gang related violence. Also, it includes the majority of the people who constitute the very dangerous and often lethal drug trade. Imagine a drug deal going bad, and one party shooting another. According to gun control advocates, this constitutes a "child" who died due to firearm wounds. Or, maybe a methamphetamine dealer gets into a shootout with police, and loses. Again, this would be cited as a "child," for purposes of scaring soccer moms everywhere.

According to John Lott, the number of children, nine and under, who died from accidental gunshot wounds in 1996 was 42. Compare that with the 2,404 who died that year in car crashes, 805 who drowned, or 738 that died of burns. When viewed in that light, guns are not the child safety hazard many would have you believe. Not to mention, of course, that guns can be used to defend those very same children, and that they will statistically make the house safer for them to live in. (Seven Myths of Gun Control, pg 120)

 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

In this case he was deemed a threat, but the law stated only those sent to a hospital could not possess guns. Change that law to include anyone deemed a threat, and add a provision that would allow the future lifting of that restriction by another judge.

Had this law been in effect MAYBE this would have been stopped. Of course the guy might have just gone out and bought a gun illegally or stolen a gun etc.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: highwire
I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen. If there was even the threat of a few armed and disciplined youngsters, or even oldster for that matter, to intervene, this event would NOT have happened. People have been drugged by the media, et al, to be passive, particularly when the actor is a person of color. The Wichita massacre is an example.

A passive and disarmed population in the middle of a tragic multicultural experiment is a bad combination.

I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen
You didn't have the judgement nor maturity to carry a lethal weapon at that age.


thats total bullsh*t. I have more trust my 13 year old daughter with my 30-30 than i ever would with 99% of the posters in this board.
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: highwire
I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen. If there was even the threat of a few armed and disciplined youngsters, or even oldster for that matter, to intervene, this event would NOT have happened. People have been drugged by the media, et al, to be passive, particularly when the actor is a person of color. The Wichita massacre is an example.

A passive and disarmed population in the middle of a tragic multicultural experiment is a bad combination.

I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen
You didn't have the judgement nor maturity to carry a lethal weapon at that age.


thats total bullsh*t. I have more trust my 13 year old daughter with my 30-30 than i ever would with 99% of the posters in this board.

My daughter could ring the targets at roughly 50 yards with my 22 when she was 9. My son can occasionally hit them at 70 yards and hes 6.

I would trust my daughter with a firearm and shes 10 now. I would not however trust my 6 year old.

Point is its more who the kid is and how they were taught as opposed to the age. I know 30 year olds today I wouldnt trust with a damn BB gun.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: highwire
I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen. If there was even the threat of a few armed and disciplined youngsters, or even oldster for that matter, to intervene, this event would NOT have happened. People have been drugged by the media, et al, to be passive, particularly when the actor is a person of color. The Wichita massacre is an example.

A passive and disarmed population in the middle of a tragic multicultural experiment is a bad combination.

I was a well trained rifleman at the age of thirteen
You didn't have the judgement nor maturity to carry a lethal weapon at that age.
Not necessarily true.

Some of us were trained in the use of firearms and the responsibility that goes along with them.

People do actually use weapons for survival and food. Grocery stores are not on every block in some parts of this country, let alone the rest of the world.

I started shooting gophers with my Dad when I was 6, shot my first pheasant (on "the fly") at 9, and my first big game (an antelope and later that year a deer) at 12. It was a trophy antelope and the horns are hanging on the wall behind me.

Of course, I live way out in the boonies, but I had a pick-up truck, a .22 and a .410 and was driving around hunting varmits and game birds by myself on a regular basis since I was age 9.

 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Originally posted by: highwire
A passive and disarmed population in the middle of a tragic multicultural experiment is a bad combination.

On this thought, it?s not a matter of being multicultural more than a prevailing sickness we endorse. The VT killer had an apparently long history of being disturbing, mentally ill, and taking anti-depressants. The dugs, I think, play a major role in damaging the mind, as well as our mishandling of those who are ill.

There is no reason he should have been able to purchase a firearm, perhaps anyone who has been given anti-depressants should not be allowed to. It is clear to me that anyone who takes them is a danger to themselves and others.

As for the topic at hand, no minor should be allowed to buy one.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Genx87
Why should we grant the govt such a right to deem which lawful citizens are allowed to own a gun?

Well, the VT gunman had been involuntarily committed to the psych ward for emotional disturbance, which made him ineligible to purchase any type of firearm. Edit: Oops, looks like I was wrong. Do you think it's reasonable that persons suffering from mental illness are generally prohibited from purchasing guns? I'm all for CCW permits, & generally support the right to bear arms, but it doesn't make much sense (imho) to allow certain persons to legally purchase/own a gun.


There is a difference between deeming certain individuals such as criminals or mentally unstable people unable to own guns and having people provide a reason for "needing" a gun.


 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: shira
Originally posted by: highwire
If there was even the threat of a few armed and disciplined youngsters, or even oldster for that matter, to intervene, this event would NOT have happened.
Nonsense. The shooter clearly expected to die. The shooter was irrational (just listen to the videos) and the threat of others intervening would have had no effect.

I predict that if every single person in the U.S. 18 and older carried a firearm, the firearm-related death-rate in the U.S. would skyrocket. Just think of how many volatile incidents would be transformed from mere shouting matches (or fisticuffs) to the use of deadly force.

Anyone who thinks "more firearms" is the answer is deluded.

Take a look at the conceal and carry situation. They are safer than law enforcement when it comes to firing their guns.

This lie about allowing more people to carry guns will equal a wild wild west situation has been proven false over and over when conceal and carry laws are enacted and the people carrying the guns are very safe.


 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: spittledip
People lives should prevail over rights. People are more intent on keeping their "rights" protected than the lives of others. That is what it comes down to. Making gun laws tougher should not be such a battle if it means the possibility of saving lives.

edit: I don't think banning all guns is the answer b/c protection against criminals is an excellent reason to own a firearm.

Clearly banning guns is just as suspectible to putting more lives at risk. For instance is just one person had a gun at VT, this could have ended without the loss of life. Instead the shooter knew in a gun free zone he had little worry about being shot himself and unloaded on these defenseless people.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Genx87
Why should we grant the govt such a right to deem which lawful citizens are allowed to own a gun?

Well, the VT gunman had been involuntarily committed to the psych ward for emotional disturbance, which made him ineligible to purchase any type of firearm. Edit: Oops, looks like I was wrong. Do you think it's reasonable that persons suffering from mental illness are generally prohibited from purchasing guns? I'm all for CCW permits, & generally support the right to bear arms, but it doesn't make much sense (imho) to allow certain persons to legally purchase/own a gun.


There is a difference between deeming certain individuals such as criminals or mentally unstable people unable to own guns and having people provide a reason for "needing" a gun.

I need a gun because of all the UFO sightings in my area.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.

Like the VT killer, after he blew his face off and killed 32 others. The mentally ill should not have the means to kill in mass so readily accessible.

I?m all for upholding the rights of responsible people, to obtain CCPs and what not.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Genx87
Why should we grant the govt such a right to deem which lawful citizens are allowed to own a gun?

Well, the VT gunman had been involuntarily committed to the psych ward for emotional disturbance, which made him ineligible to purchase any type of firearm. Edit: Oops, looks like I was wrong. Do you think it's reasonable that persons suffering from mental illness are generally prohibited from purchasing guns? I'm all for CCW permits, & generally support the right to bear arms, but it doesn't make much sense (imho) to allow certain persons to legally purchase/own a gun.


There is a difference between deeming certain individuals such as criminals or mentally unstable people unable to own guns and having people provide a reason for "needing" a gun.

I need a gun because of all the UFO sightings in my area.


Denied

-Smoking Man
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
In Alabama you need 3 people to vouch for you.

Who vouched for Cho, or is that not part of Virginia law?

*edit

I confused the laws of buying a gun and getting a CCP.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Genx87
Why should we grant the govt such a right to deem which lawful citizens are allowed to own a gun?

Well, the VT gunman had been involuntarily committed to the psych ward for emotional disturbance, which made him ineligible to purchase any type of firearm. Edit: Oops, looks like I was wrong. Do you think it's reasonable that persons suffering from mental illness are generally prohibited from purchasing guns? I'm all for CCW permits, & generally support the right to bear arms, but it doesn't make much sense (imho) to allow certain persons to legally purchase/own a gun.


There is a difference between deeming certain individuals such as criminals or mentally unstable people unable to own guns and having people provide a reason for "needing" a gun.

I need a gun because of all the UFO sightings in my area.


Denied

-Smoking Man

WTF does -Smoking Man mean?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.

Like the VT killer, after he blew his face off and killed 32 others. The mentally ill should not have the means to kill in mass so readily accessible.

I?m all for upholding the rights of responsible people, to obtain CCPs and what not.

One guy flips out and the sky is falling? Fear is a terrible thing, maybe you should see a psychiatrist about that.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Genx87
Why should we grant the govt such a right to deem which lawful citizens are allowed to own a gun?

Well, the VT gunman had been involuntarily committed to the psych ward for emotional disturbance, which made him ineligible to purchase any type of firearm. Edit: Oops, looks like I was wrong. Do you think it's reasonable that persons suffering from mental illness are generally prohibited from purchasing guns? I'm all for CCW permits, & generally support the right to bear arms, but it doesn't make much sense (imho) to allow certain persons to legally purchase/own a gun.


There is a difference between deeming certain individuals such as criminals or mentally unstable people unable to own guns and having people provide a reason for "needing" a gun.

I need a gun because of all the UFO sightings in my area.


Denied

-Smoking Man

WTF does -Smoking Man mean?

Come on baby, X-Files.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_Smoking_Man
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.

Like the VT killer, after he blew his face off and killed 32 others. The mentally ill should not have the means to kill in mass so readily accessible.

I?m all for upholding the rights of responsible people, to obtain CCPs and what not.

One guy flips out and the sky is falling? Fear is a terrible thing, maybe you should see a psychiatrist about that.

What don't you agree with, you want the mentally ill to have access to guns?
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
1
0
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.

Like the VT killer, after he blew his face off and killed 32 others. The mentally ill should not have the means to kill in mass so readily accessible.

I?m all for upholding the rights of responsible people, to obtain CCPs and what not.

One guy flips out and the sky is falling? Fear is a terrible thing, maybe you should see a psychiatrist about that.

What don't you agree with, you want the mentally ill to have access to guns?

As far as I can see everyone is menatally ill in one form or degree to another. Your going to have to have a better definition then that, because if a seriously mentally ill person is dangerous they can lock him up right now.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
What don't you agree with, you want the mentally ill to have access to guns?

As far as I can see everyone is menatally ill in one form or degree to another. Your going to have to have a better definition then that, because if a seriously mentally ill person is dangerous they can lock him up right now.
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

That's the specific detail, to include a definition that fits both Cho AND the Columbine killers. You get put on those drugs and they cause mental problems on their own which lead to suicide ? which can lead to homicide just as easily.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
The only law that should change after this is to change the mentally ill provision to include ANYONE deemed mentally ill or a threat to themselves by a judge.

More than that, anyone prescribed anti-depressants. Weren't the columbine killers also on them?

There ya go, pass a law like that and then people who suffer from depression won't seek treatment.

The only restrictions should be on people who have commited a crime involving a gun.

Like the VT killer, after he blew his face off and killed 32 others. The mentally ill should not have the means to kill in mass so readily accessible.

I?m all for upholding the rights of responsible people, to obtain CCPs and what not.

One guy flips out and the sky is falling? Fear is a terrible thing, maybe you should see a psychiatrist about that.

What don't you agree with, you want the mentally ill to have access to guns?

The problem with this is 1. who decides what class of mentally ill should be denied guns, 2. Who is going to keep the data base? And if someone is prescribed meds, how do you get around doctor/patient priveledge as far as reporting?

It's a nice idea, but so is world peace. In reality, it just isnt possible.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Originally posted by: highwire
A passive and disarmed population in the middle of a tragic multicultural experiment is a bad combination.

You mean that sh!t scribbled on the Statue of Liberty?
 
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