Inception looking very promising **POSSIBLE SPOILERS INSIDE**

[MJinZ]

Ah I think I figured it out. Cobb and his wife aged in a dream because they (or him) accepted it as reality while Cobb did not age in the last scene compared to Saito who accepted it as his reality and said he forgot through the "passage of time."

Well actually, Cobb did age significantly. Not many people were paying attention probably but I was trying to figure out how Saito looked like a friggin Zombie while Cobb basically looked the same.

Cobb had grey hairs and a more raggedy face, but on the whole he looked very very similar.

I mean, thinking about it, it was 40+ 50 = 90 year old Saito. 30+50 = 80 year old Cobb.

The mental disconnect for me is that the Saito OK, maybe could pass for 90 but there is no way Cobb could pass for 80. He was maybe 50 something.

So I did not understand the time discrepency (if there was one), or simply an oversight of the directors, or even Leo DiCaprio's vanity that he did not want to appear that old.

 

[lokiju]

Exactly - if you die, you're lost in Limbo. Therefore, Cobb went into Limbo (to go after Fischer), not "level 4". Or rather Level 4 is Limbo and there is no Level 5.

Fischer definitely didn't just die and go into another level of dreaming lol... he went into Limbo.

Cobb went after that, that's the only way that makes sense.

Now how he entered Limbo without killing himself in Level 3 is a stretch, but I assume it's because by dreaming so deeply, he can achieve Limbo as he had already been there before.

You know what? I'm with you now. There is a disconnect there.

I really can't think of anything that was laid out in the movie that could or would explain it so I guess its going to be one of those things that either never gets answered or gets answered in a directors cut blu-ray.

The ONLY thing I could guess is that since the gun shot happened in level one, once he actually died in level 3, it still had some unexplained result on time in limbo for him versus the others. If so that was never explained that I caught.

 

[MJinZ]

You know what? I'm with you now. There is a disconnect there.

I really can't think of anything that was laid out in the movie that could or would explain it so I guess its going to be one of those things that either never gets answered or gets answered in a directors cut blu-ray.

The ONLY thing I could guess is that since the gun shot happened in level one, once he actually died in level 3, it still had some unexplained result on time in limbo for him versus the others. If so that was never explained that I caught.

I don't remember how Saito died exactly but I actually think he died on Level 1 by loss of blood in the van, which subsequently killed all of his level 2 and level 3 incarnations.

 

[lokiju]

I don't remember how Saito died exactly but I actually think he died on Level 1 by loss of blood in the van, which subsequently killed all of his level 2 and level 3 incarnations.

Right, that's what I was getting at. Maybe that's the root cause of the huge age differences.

 

[Regs]

Well actually, Cobb did age significantly. Not many people were paying attention probably but I was trying to figure out how Saito looked like a friggin Zombie while Cobb basically looked the same.

Cobb had grey hairs and a more raggedy face, but on the whole he looked very very similar.

I mean, thinking about it, it was 40+ 50 = 90 year old Saito. 30+50 = 80 year old Cobb.

The mental disconnect for me is that the Saito OK, maybe could pass for 90 but there is no way Cobb could pass for 80. He was maybe 50 something.

So I did not understand the time discrepency (if there was one), or simply an oversight of the directors, or even Leo DiCaprio's vanity that he did not want to appear that old.

Nah, everything is for a reason in this movie. Notice how Cobb was wearing a wedding ring in some scenes and others he was not. Obviously evidence from real world to fake.

 

[jellyrole]

This movie was amazing!

 

[MovingTarget]

I had one too many flashbacks to Hofstadter and Gödelian self-reference watching this film. Should've called it A Fugue of Dreams.

 

[MJinZ]

Right, that's what I was getting at. Maybe that's the root cause of the huge age differences.

That doesn't make sense when you consider that time has to travel at the same relativistic rate at each level (this is assuming humans have relatively similar brain function capabilities). For example, in Level 1, 2 and 3, one person's time does not travel faster than another (they would be like Spiderman or Superman really). This all has to do with the explanation of how minds work faster in dreams.

Thus, Cobb's Limbo time travels at the same rate as Saito's Limbo time. If Cobb entered Limbo first, it would stand to reason that Saito's time in Limbo can't be more than Cobb's.

Of course, if Saito was like a bajillion times smarter than Cobb, he could have experienced hundreds of years of aging in Limbo (he would project his own age on his own face based on his own perception of time), that would actually make sense lol. All of this while Cobb only experienced like 10 or 20.

 

[ghostman]

I think I understood most of the story regarding Fischer, but there were some points I didn't quite get regarding Cobb and Mal.

Cobb knew the "inception" could be done because he had done it to Mal, his wife, when they were in limbo. This was because Mal had started to believe limbo was real. Cobb planted the idea that the world they live in was not real and that they had to kill themselves to escape this world. Unfortunately, when the two woke up, Mal continued to believe her world was not real and killed herself in reality.

A. Is this correct? If so, isn't the idea that Cobb planted actually the truth? They WERE in a fake world and killing themselves was necessary to escape it. Mal just couldn't recognize it anymore. Is that still considered "inception" if the planted information is real?

B. What exactly was the purpose of Cobb breaking into Mal's safe (in the dollhouse)? He broke in, picked up the top and spun it.

C. When in the limbo state, Cobb and Mal eventually woke up by lying down on the train tracks, correct? Why were they still young looking when they were on the tracks? They spent 50 years together in limbo and a scene showed two old folks walking. But Cobb and Mal were still youthful when they lied down on the tracks.

D. Limbo is a state when you've "died" in your dreams, but too sedated to wake up. How does killing yourself in limbo help? Cobb and Mal lied down on the tracks, Saito and Cobb (presumably) shot themselves to wake up from limbo. If killing yourself wakes you up from limbo, why not kill yourself sooner?

 

[Aikouka]

He stayed alive for longer in the lower Dream states because time is "slower" there. So if he'd die in 1 minute in Level 1, he'd die in 1 minute times some multiplier in Level 2 and that'd chain further into Level 3. They show you all the action that occurs between the slight jumps back to Level 1 (with the van falling). If I remember correctly, the van falling from the bridge into the river is only 10 seconds.

 

[MJinZ]

I think I understood most of the story regarding Fischer, but there were some points I didn't quite get regarding Cobb and Mal.

Cobb knew the "inception" could be done because he had done it to Mal, his wife, when they were in limbo. This was because Mal had started to believe limbo was real. Cobb planted the idea that the world they live in was not real and that they had to kill themselves to escape this world. Unfortunately, when the two woke up, Mal continued to believe her world was not real and killed herself in reality.

A. Is this correct? If so, isn't the idea that Cobb planted actually the truth? They WERE in a fake world and killing themselves was necessary to escape it. Mal just couldn't recognize it anymore. Is that still considered "inception" if the planted information is real?

Yes, Cobb planted the truth. You can plant truths , it doesn't need to be false information.

B. What exactly was the purpose of Cobb breaking into Mal's safe (in the dollhouse)? He broke in, picked up the top and spun it.

Mal's safe was a corner of her mind where the top stopped spinning, even though it was supposed to continue spinning because the reality was in fact not real.

Cobb started it spinning again.

Now Mal looks at her totem in the corner of her mind and realizes that this reality was not real.

It's assumed that Mal obviously knew Limbo was not reality *in the beginning*, but eventually Mal wanted to stay in Limbo and convinced herself that it was reality. Thus, why Cobb had to perform an inception on her to break her own self delusion.

C. When in the limbo state, Cobb and Mal eventually woke up by lying down on the train tracks, correct? Why were they still young looking when they were on the tracks? They spent 50 years together in limbo and a scene showed two old folks walking. But Cobb and Mal were still youthful when they lied down on the tracks.

That's either a discrepency by the producers, or just artistic license because Cobb is telling the story. He told the story of when they grew old (using the old images) and then telling the story of when they got back to reality (by improperly using youthful images).

D. Limbo is a state when you've "died" in your dreams, but too sedated to wake up. How does killing yourself in limbo help? Cobb and Mal lied down on the tracks, Saito and Cobb (presumably) shot themselves to wake up from limbo. If killing yourself wakes you up from limbo, why not kill yourself sooner?

Again, a good point. Actually, I don't think it's killing yourself that matters, it's the "kick" that gets you out of Limbo.

Remember Ariadne jumped off the building and the falling sensation was what kicked her back to Level 3, indicating that they just needed a strong kick to escape Limbo.

But of course, that doesn't really explain why the whole story ran with the assumption that Limbo was so dreaded. It seemed like it was easy enough to get out of.

 

[MJinZ]

He stayed alive for longer in the lower Dream states because time is "slower" there. So if he'd die in 1 minute in Level 1, he'd die in 1 minute times some multiplier in Level 2 and that'd chain further into Level 3. They show you all the action that occurs between the slight jumps back to Level 1 (with the van falling). If I remember correctly, the van falling from the bridge into the river is only 10 seconds.

Right, that doesn't address anything to do with time Limbo though.

Once he got into Limbo, we need an explanation of why he apparently spent longer in Limbo than Cobb.

 

[Svnla]

I saw this earlier today. HIGHLY recommend.

The only thing I didn't like about this movie was the long drag out shooting scenes at the blizzard snow fortress. This movie was a psychological thriller, not "Die Hard XXI: Snow Fortress" IMO.

Will watch this again via another trip to the theater or DVD.

 

[destrekor]

Holy... shiiiiiiiiiit...

Just saw it a few hours ago.

Nolan is easily my favorite director. So damn consistently awesome.

 

[ElFenix]

Spoiler

obviously his wife was right. how did he get back on the plane? still a dream. the kids at the end are the ones from his memory.

 

[TechAZ]

This was the only the 2nd movie I've ever walked out on. Maybe I was too tired to get into it. /shrug

 

[tokie]

Just got back from Inception.

I am blown away at how amazing it was. Also, I found Mal extremely attractive even though she was pretty much batshit crazy.

 

[HendrixFan]

Just got back from Inception.

I am blown away at how amazing it was. Also, I found Mal extremely attractive even though she was pretty much batshit crazy.

The two usually go hand in hand.

 

[destrekor]

Spoiler

obviously his wife was right. how did he get back on the plane? still a dream. the kids at the end are the ones from his memory.

Spoiler

The plane is where it all started. Everyone entered the first dream in the airplane. After entering into the first dream, they started leaving people behind to kick them back (inside the large van was their entry-point into the second dream). In the second dream, they would only have a set amount of time (and it was the shortest amount of time to wait in comparison to the deeper dream worlds) so after swimming ashore from the sunken van, I think they only needed to wait until that dream collapsed and they woke up. So waking up on the plane is exactly where it all ended for their little adventure.
Whether they were all his projections or not is technically left up in the air at the end of the movie, but for all those characters involved, that was it.

 

[TehMac]

D. Limbo is a state when you've "died" in your dreams, but too sedated to wake up. How does killing yourself in limbo help? Cobb and Mal lied down on the tracks, Saito and Cobb (presumably) shot themselves to wake up from limbo. If killing yourself wakes you up from limbo, why not kill yourself sooner?

We're not sure they actually did shoot themselves. We see Saito reach for his gun, but then Cobb wakes up--it could mean that Saito shot himself to wake up, or more realistically he was contemplating it but then their sedative ran out of steam and so Cobb and Saito woke up naturally.

I find that to be the most realistic explanation and given the evidence, I'm sure Cobb was in real life when the story ended. The spinning top is Nolan's final tease to the audience and a reminder that the Top was what was in his wife's safe. He may be free of guilt, but she lives on in his memory

 

[ElFenix]

Spoiler

The plane is where it all started. Everyone entered the first dream in the airplane. After entering into the first dream, they started leaving people behind to kick them back (inside the large van was their entry-point into the second dream). In the second dream, they would only have a set amount of time (and it was the shortest amount of time to wait in comparison to the deeper dream worlds) so after swimming ashore from the sunken van, I think they only needed to wait until that dream collapsed and they woke up. So waking up on the plane is exactly where it all ended for their little adventure.
Whether they were all his projections or not is technically left up in the air at the end of the movie, but for all those characters involved, that was it.

Spoiler

iirc, he didn't wake up, he was just suddenly there.

 

[Svnla]

I just read Wiki and Christopher Nolan did not make any stinker/bombed movies. The lowest rated movie was The Prestige. Very impressive.

 

[Tequila]

Pretty amazing movie. I paid $4 extra for the IMAX showing and don't regret it. Great story, cast, sound and special effects.

Also got a kick watching the preview for Resident Evil: Afterlife. Damn, that better live up to the billing cause the preview blew me away.

 

[Aikouka]

I ended up buying the soundtrack for the movie the other day and it is quite nice. Surprisingly, fye actually had it for a competitive price .

 

[TehMac]

Spoiler

iirc, he didn't wake up, he was just suddenly there.

no he did open his eyes...so that suggests he had awoken.