Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
I'd really rather not walk down this very well-trodden path, but I would like to point out that you're basically saying that the solution to a supreme court that makes decisions on the fly is to get a different supreme court to make new decisions on the fly that support what you want. That's what got us into this shitstorm to begin with.

Does that include pump-action shotguns? So everything single action or manual reload. Might be workable from a technical standpoint (assuming no asshat neckbeards find a technical way around it) but you've got an absolute nightmare of a hill to climb to get it. 400m guns in america, at least half are double-action, probably closer to 90% if you're gonna throw pump shotguns in there.

And what's super fun about that is any attempt to get better results in more fighting, more sickness, and more death. Every attempt to dig upward just results in digging downward.
So, play the same game that the other team has been playing for 30 years? Seems like a smart move to me.

If someone else is cheating, and you're playing by the rules, they will never not cheat, and you will always lose. The best way to return to a normal game state, ironically, is to cheat worse.

So yes, Dems need to be ruthless and take every possible and miniscule advantage and make republicans wish they never tried being underhanded in the first place. Then we can return to a normal system of good faith arguments and compromise.

Is it in line with democratic principle? Not at all. But Republicans aren't operating with any principles other than accruing power, so the idea that we're breaking democracy is a flawed one. It's already been broken.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
So, play the same game that the other team has been playing for 30 years? Seems like a smart move to me.

If someone else is cheating, and you're playing by the rules, they will never not cheat, and you will always lose. The best way to return to a normal game state, ironically, is to cheat worse.

So yes, Dems need to be ruthless and take every possible and miniscule advantage and make republicans wish they never tried being underhanded in the first place. Then we can return to a normal system of good faith arguments and compromise.

Is it in line with democratic principle? Not at all. But Republicans aren't operating with any principles other than accruing power, so the idea that we're breaking democracy is a flawed one. It's already been broken.
Hardball by Dems from this point until the election would look like.

Republicans don't give a damn about your children. They care about fetuses
The pro-life Republicans voted NO on baby formula for poor people during the shortage.
Republicans care more about taking money from the NRA then the lives of your children
Republicans think stopping gun safety reforms is more important then your children being killed in school

The US is the only country with this problem because we have Republicans.
They can't be trusted with keeping the Democracy and they can't be trusted with the safety of your children
The one thing we do know they want you to have more by outlawing your birth control.

Repeat on a loop. It has the added benefit of being true
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,843
8,432
136
Hardball by Dems from this point until the election would look like.

Republicans don't give a damn about your children. They care about fetuses
The pro-life Republicans voted NO on baby formula for poor people during the shortage.
Republicans care more about taking money from the NRA then the lives of your children
Republicans think stopping gun safety reforms is more important then your children being killed in school

The US is the only country with this problem because we have Republicans.
They can't be trusted with keeping the Democracy and they can't be trusted with the safety of your children

Yep. If you're the only side playing by the rules, then you're always going to lose.

"When they go low, we go high we fill the trench with gas and light it on fire"
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Nope, my argument is every gun owner believes themselves to be responsible until they aren't. The thousands who kill themselves each year with their guns believed as you do until they blew their brains out.

Ergo, you're a dumbass.

And the number of people who fall into that bracket is a tiny tiny percentage of gun owners... dumbass.

I also fail to see how a suicide is in any way comparable to what happened in Texas. If someone blows their brains out my level of care is zero. It's a crime against himself. Not comparable at all. I'm not for gun control as a means to lower suicide rates.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,625
12,757
146
So, play the same game that the other team has been playing for 30 years? Seems like a smart move to me.

If someone else is cheating, and you're playing by the rules, they will never not cheat, and you will always lose. The best way to return to a normal game state, ironically, is to cheat worse.

So yes, Dems need to be ruthless and take every possible and miniscule advantage and make republicans wish they never tried being underhanded in the first place. Then we can return to a normal system of good faith arguments and compromise.

Is it in line with democratic principle? Not at all. But Republicans aren't operating with any principles other than accruing power, so the idea that we're breaking democracy is a flawed one. It's already been broken.
Then we should stop kidding ourselves that we're even in a democracy of any form, and simply vote in a dictator that agrees with our ideals. We'll have a civil war, one side will win, and we'll move on with whatever's left of our country until climate change kills us all.

You can't dig out of a hole by digging deeper.

I guess there's always the 2A solution, though most won't have the stomach for it.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Really? You think so do you?
You can't name a single time in your life that you did something out of character?

You think that you are a static being that never changes? That your beliefs today are the same as they were 10 years ago, and will be the same 10 years from now? You think you understand why you do the things you do? You (like everyone else) are not even very good at knowing your own motivations. More often than not you do something and then rationalize why afterwards. Your idea about who you are is probably not even that close to what others know of who you are based on your actual actions. It is impossible to objectively observe yourself.

Not that involved using a firearm as a result, no. Absolutely not.

And I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks quite frankly.
 
Reactions: iRONic

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
And the number of people who fall into that bracket is a tiny tiny percentage of gun owners... dumbass.

I also fail to see how a suicide is in any way comparable to what happened in Texas. If someone blows their brains out my level of care is zero. It's a crime against himself. Not comparable at all. I'm not for gun control as a means to lower suicide rates.
Suicide affects families and friends, not just the person who killed themselves.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
Yep. If you're the only side playing by the rules, then you're always going to lose.

"When they go low, we go high we fill the trench with gas and light it on fire"
But is it really necessary? When the other side is doing such horrible things, it’s enough without sinking to their level. As much as people keep saying the orange monkey got 11 million more votes. 15 million extra decided to vote against him. As long as Dems ride the gun regulations, hopefully it gets the wasn’t planning to vote in the midterm people. Maintaining seats important thing.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
Suicide affects families and friends, not just the person who killed themselves.
But it’s not just that. Okay teen suicides are majority solo. But adults are murder suicides. Jaded lover. Angry coworker.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,843
8,432
136
But is it really necessary? When the other side is doing such horrible things, it’s enough without sinking to their level. As much as people keep saying the orange monkey got 11 million more votes. 15 million extra decided to vote against him. As long as Dems ride the gun regulations, hopefully it gets the wasn’t planning to vote in the midterm people. Maintaining seats important thing.

I'm not suggesting we stage a coup or invade the Supreme Court. I'm suggesting we use the same dirty political tricks/tactics that they have over the last ~30 years. Senate flips to GOP in '24 and a SCOTUS seat comes up that they won't vote on? Well, they declined their "advise and consent" option so the nominee is good to go. Won't vote on a cabinet appointment? Recess appointment FTW. Subpoena comes in? Nah, don't think I will today.

But fucking stop being polite to these absolute monsters. Call them what they are. Civil discourse doesn't work when it's one sided.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,804
136
There is a lot of people that don't follow safe practices when driving. No, not everyone is a good driver.
I see people everyday on their cell phone talking/txt when driving despite that fact that this practice increases risk and it is against the law.
However I know that I personally lower my risk when operating vehicle by not using my phone when driving.
My actions directly contribute to how safe driving is for me. It cannot reduce the risk to zero but it can reduce the risk.


I'll take it a step further and say that the majority of people are VERY BAD drivers based on observation.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,812
10,346
136
But is it really necessary? When the other side is doing such horrible things, it’s enough without sinking to their level. As much as people keep saying the orange monkey got 11 million more votes. 15 million extra decided to vote against him. As long as Dems ride the gun regulations, hopefully it gets the wasn’t planning to vote in the midterm people. Maintaining seats important thing.
if trump hadn't bungled covid so badly, he 100% would have won.

edit: also, as much as the vote delta between biden and trump was in the multiple millions of votes, in terms of winning the election, it was only a handful in key states. switch THOSE votes, and biden loses. so the actual margin of winning was much, much smaller than the popular vote differential indicates
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,576
7,637
136
If someone else is cheating, and you're playing by the rules, they will never not cheat, and you will always lose. The best way to return to a normal game state, ironically, is to cheat worse.

Same principle as nuclear brinkmanship.
They have to believe you're willing to strike, or the deterrence does not exist.
We arm ourselves by playing the same game as the Republicans.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
And the number of people who fall into that bracket is a tiny tiny percentage of gun owners... dumbass.

I also fail to see how a suicide is in any way comparable to what happened in Texas. If someone blows their brains out my level of care is zero. It's a crime against himself. Not comparable at all. I'm not for gun control as a means to lower suicide rates.

It's an example of how having a gun makes you less safe. you willfully ignorant foot.
 
Reactions: iRONic

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
It's an example of how having a gun makes you less safe. you willfully ignorant foot.

I'm not convinced that owning guns makes me less safe. You can argue that as a nation that embraces guns that we are less safe than nations with lower gun ownership but me personally? I don't think I'm less safe for having a gun in the home considering that I am the only one with access to or any desire to access them. I have seen no proof to sway me otherwise. You can't just say that because other people kill themselves that I am more likely to kill myself. It's a ridiculous argument.

Which is more ignorant, the foot or the foot who argues with it? I am the right foot, you are the wrong foot.
 
Reactions: Brovane

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
I'm not convinced that owning guns makes me less safe. You can argue that as a nation that embraces guns that we are less safe than nations with lower gun ownership but me personally? I don't think I'm less safe for having a gun in the home considering that I am the only one with access to or any desire to access them. I have seen no proof to sway me otherwise. You can't just say that because other people kill themselves that I am more likely to kill myself. It's a ridiculous argument.

Which is more ignorant, the foot or the foot who argues with it? I am the right foot, you are the wrong foot.
What evidence would you accept that would show you are less safe for owning a gun?
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,843
8,432
136
I'm not convinced that owning guns makes me less safe. You can argue that as a nation that embraces guns that we are less safe than nations with lower gun ownership but me personally? I don't think I'm less safe for having a gun in the home considering that I am the only one with access to or any desire to access them. I have seen no proof to sway me otherwise. You can't just say that because other people kill themselves that I am more likely to kill myself. It's a ridiculous argument.

Which is more ignorant, the foot or the foot who argues with it? I am the right foot, you are the wrong foot.

Guns in the home doubles your risk of being killed, and triples your risk of suicide.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M13-1301
 
Reactions: dainthomas

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,689
25,000
136
I'm not convinced that owning guns makes me less safe. You can argue that as a nation that embraces guns that we are less safe than nations with lower gun ownership but me personally? I don't think I'm less safe for having a gun in the home considering that I am the only one with access to or any desire to access them. I have seen no proof to sway me otherwise. You can't just say that because other people kill themselves that I am more likely to kill myself. It's a ridiculous argument.

Which is more ignorant, the foot or the foot who argues with it? I am the right foot, you are the wrong foot.

But you are more likely to kill yourself as a gun owner. Maybe not more likely to attempt suicide than then general population but use of a fire arm in a suicide attempt dramatically increases the chances of it being a successful suicide attempt. There is a reason why the gun lobby shits its pants at research into how guns affect people.
 
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