Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

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Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,778
2,333
136
LOL on the idea of arming teachers. That's as hilarious as all the suggestions of turning every school into some impregnable castle. Teachers already are buying supplies, where's the money going to come from, is the NRA going to donate funds? Raise taxes! Every politician can't wait to get behind that one.

It's already difficult to find good teachers to take relatively low pay, put up with asinine curriculum decisions in some states, deal with parents and school admin alike, and then also deal with difficult students. Now we are going to get them to take down active shooters... The only ones teaching now are those that really love it despite all that, or ones that can't do anything else--and you'll be losing a bunch of the first group if you start asking them to fucking pack heat. But that's all a-ok for the GOP, who would love to gut public education. I wonder if the teachers of all the private Christian schools will need to carry, or if they'll have the money to spend on actual protection (whatever that is worth).

I work at a university with a security dept. After our active shooter talks which we'd have once a year, someone would always ask if they could bring their shootin iron to work. Nope, said security every year. We want to be the only ones with guns around here. Ah, the disappointment in my coworkers' eyes at that pronouncement, and the relief in mine...

I'm sure the teachers are looking forward to the inevitable lawsuits they'll get for tasing or shooting some kid, probably after missing the one they were aiming at. For fuck's sake. I'm sure good ol Mrs Brown I had in 7th grade, who looked like she'd need help to lift a book, is going to be able to accurately and quickly tase some active shooter, assuming she didn't faint first.

We have officially entered Monty Python land if this is ever considered seriously. If teachers had actual lethal guns that would be the time I'd home school, personally (though mine are in college anyway at this point). It's way more likely some kid or shooter would just take it away from most teachers vs they'd actually use it effectively.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,995
18,344
146
Teachers have already sacrificed their lives to protect children. There are many incidents of teachers sacrificing their lives by placing their bodies between the shooter and their students. I would never EXPECT a teacher to become armed, but I wouldn't deny them the opportunity. The ability to fire back at an attacker might significantly change the situation both tactically AND from a deterrence perspective.

We should pay them extra if they CHOOSE to become armed/trained. Absolutely. Pay them more than LEOs.

Anyhow, this is all "band-aid" fixes and doesn't solve the violence problem in America. We can do this, and it may help, but this isn't the solution.

What solution would you propose?

Edit: imagine a teacher harms a student while firing back at the gunman, smh, this country is fuct up man
 
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Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,778
2,333
136
Current estimates of civilian guns per capita, according to this wiki article, which to be fair is 2017.

Aus: 14.5
USA: 120.5

Next on the list after us:
Falkland f-ing Islands at 62. Yemen is #3 at 52.8

It drops off a lot after that.

America is definitely leading the way in the "more guns == more safety" experiment. Hey, we are doing it so the rest of you don't have to If the Aussies are looking over at the US and saying "hey, get me some of THAT!" and beefed up their gun ownership since 2017, so be it.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,683
24,997
136
I think if gun owners were required to carry all of their guns with them at all times, it would cut down on the gun fetish thing. Guns are a lot heavier in real life than in video games.
Nah, they would just get bigger rascals with enough built in places to attach them all.

insert family guy "everyone to your rascals" meme here
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,683
24,997
136
Wieambilla would like a word. Yes, very rare case, but it happened.
Compared to the rate in the US? It would be a VAST improvement. The point that maybe you missed is that mass shootings have become extremely rare there after they took action but in the US our lack of action has translated into world leading rates of mass casualty events outside of war zones.
 
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snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
8,088
5,084
146
Agreed. I don't even want school resource officers at schools. When you hire a cop or 2 to work at a school, they just end up policing the children instead of protecting them.

I do think that teachers should be allowed to become trained and carry (if they wish). Is this the best solution? NO!!! Is it a bandaid at best? Yes! We need to address the underlying issues with gun violence, but unless or until those are addressed, I can't help but think I'd want to be armed if I were a teacher and I encountered a school shooter. There is also a deterrent value to the thought that some teachers might be armed. There is a reason that none of these mass shootings happen at police stations.

Remember when you were in school, you had that one (or two or three) teacher with the snaggletooth, or weird limp, or talked funny, that every kid ruthlessly made fun of and never respected, and it clearly made the teacher upset? Allowing them to bring guns to school sounds like a great idea...

The underlying issue with gun violence is that there are too many guns owned by too many people who have no business owning them. The cat's out of the bag; society has ruined gun ownership for the responsible gun owners. More gun owners is only going to make the problem worse.
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski
Nov 17, 2019
11,291
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^^^ 'Now, Jenny, remember we musn't tell anyone about our special after school sessions, must we' (said while patting a bulge under his arm).

'No, Mr Jordan, I understand' replies Jenny meekly and with eyes averted towards the floor.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,937
766
136
Remember when you were in school, you had that one (or two or three) teacher with the snaggletooth, or weird limp, or talked funny, that every kid ruthlessly made fun of and never respected, and it clearly made the teacher upset? Allowing them to bring guns to school sounds like a great idea...

When I was in school there was literally nothing preventing snaggletooth or weird limp from bringing a gun to school and doing what you think they will do if they get upset. There isn't much preventing them from doing so today as well. Nobody is going to just hand them a gun and say "go get dem bad boys, snaggelz". There is a precedent of mental evaluation and training that has a pretty good track record with teachers who are currently armed. School resource officers? Not so much.

The underlying issue with gun violence is that there are too many guns owned by too many people who have no business owning them. The cat's out of the bag; society has ruined gun ownership for the responsible gun owners. More gun owners is only going to make the problem worse.

The underlying issue with gun violence is that there are people who want to use them to kill people. Removing guns removes a method of killing. It doesn't remove the murder from a man's heart.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,937
766
136
How’s their gun deaths trending

Their gun deaths were trending down before the ban. The trend continued after the ban. The ban didn't actually remove that many guns. Maybe 20%, and most of those were rimfire (peashooters) or shotguns. ALL OF THOSE were by people who willingly obeyed the law. Not your prime suspects for lawbreaking murderers.

Currently? There are now more guns owned in Australia than before their "ban". Their gun murder rate has remained low despite the large increase in guns.

During the same timeframe, gun ownership in America increased. The federal assault rifle ban was allowed to expire. Yet the gun murder rates in America decreased in similar amounts to those in Australia.

Based on the data, I strongly suspect that there are more influential variables and influences to gun murder rates that number/type of guns owned.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,662
4,136
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The underlying issue with gun violence is that there are people who want to use them to kill people. Removing guns removes a method of killing. It doesn't remove the murder from a man's heart.
We could work on fixing society to be better, so people don't want to kill others, AND remove the best tool for the job from easy reach.
 
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