Incomprehensible mass shooting happens again

[Zorba]

Meet the Uvalde 9-member SWAT team for a town of 13,000:

Town budget:

All 16:

At least the pussies have camo, so they can feel like real men while they let kids bleed out.

 

[ivwshane]

Cops are so fucking worthless. I'm sure they'll all get medals, but they should all be shit canned. Send the message that pussy cops will not be tolerated, especially when kids are bleeding out.

I can only recall one school shooting were the cops actually stopped the active shooting. Every other case they've just waited for the gunman to run out of will.

Imagine fire fighters that refuse to go into a burning building until it was done burning. Actually, the last week of school, my daughter's school had an AC unit burn up and set of the smoke alarms. Fire department was there inside in full gear in less than 10 minutes. Thank god they didn't ask the police to come, the school would've burned to the ground.

Let’s be honest here, cops not being heroes isn’t the issue, they are only human and you can’t expect anyone to put their life on the line. The issue really is that we expect cops, teachers, or whoever the fuck else gun nutters want to put in schools, to be these heroes in the first place. It’s a ridiculous and unrealistic expectation that’s used to ignore real solutions.

 

[Meghan54]

Why Australia has had only one mass shooting since 1996

Australia’s government banned automatic and semiautomatic guns, created a national firearms registry, and made a 28-day-long waiting period for gun purchases.

www.fastcompany.com

And if you say it won't work here, you just choose to be ignorant.


And this is soooo damned true:

Analysis: States with the most gun violence share one trait

There's one thing that is indisputable in the available data on gun violence: Where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths. This is true despite Texas Gov. Greg Abbott's attempt to explain away gun deaths by comparing them to gun violence in Chicago.

www.cnn.com

 

[Maxima1]

No you just aren’t comprehending the nuances between the two studies and keep trying to compare the two as if they are the same but with different results. Aka a lack of reading comprehension.

Nah, I'm the one noting the nuances. For example, the issue on the competing theories on gun ownership suicide shown in the article I linked or how impulsive people have less intent, and there is a significant portion of long-term suicidal people. The stat you want to defend comes across very unreasonable because the UK is quite close to the US for suicide (with similar mental illness rate) despite gun ownership being not nearly as widespread and much more restricted. Culture being significantly different (UK is not the only one) as a defense sounds like horseshit when that factor of owning supposedly raises risk by 10x. The more reasonable conclusion is many suicides in the US would be substituted if the guns were taken away. It would be lower, but not to the extent suggested by 10x for all households with gun ownership.

 

[Zorba]

Let’s be honest here, cops not being heroes isn’t the issue, they are only human and you can’t expect anyone to put their life on the line. The issue really is that we expect cops, teachers, or whoever the fuck else gun nutters want to put in schools, to be these heroes in the first place. It’s a ridiculous and unrealistic expectation that’s used to ignore real solutions.

I agree with you. Except cops are paid and equipped to protect the public, which they almost always wuss out in doing. Driving around handing out speeding tickets and busting people for a minor amount of drugs doesn't justify their pay or cost. Love how they all got in their soldier cosplay outfits to stand around and yell at parents.

The only real solution is banning semi-auto guns. A more realistic improvement is raising the minimum age to at least 21 and holding any one that doesn't properly store their guns liable.

 

[Brovane]

Let’s be honest here, cops not being heroes isn’t the issue, they are only human and you can’t expect anyone to put their life on the line. The issue really is that we expect cops, teachers, or whoever the fuck else gun nutters want to put in schools, to be these heroes in the first place. It’s a ridiculous and unrealistic expectation that’s used to ignore real solutions.

If you are not willing to risk your life as Police Officer to stop a school shooting in progress then you should seek a different profession.

 

[m8d]

Let’s be honest here, cops not being heroes isn’t the issue, they are only human and you can’t expect anyone to put their life on the line. The issue really is that we expect cops, teachers, or whoever the fuck else gun nutters want to put in schools, to be these heroes in the first place. It’s a ridiculous and unrealistic expectation that’s used to ignore real solutions.

They knew what they were getting into when they joined the police force. If they're scared for their lives then they need to find a new line of work.

 

[sandorski]

There is a difference between what should have happened here vs whether Here should have happened.

 

[MrSquished]

They knew what they were getting into when they joined the police force. If they're scared for their lives then they need to find a new line of work.

If they could beat up unarmed BLM protestors and shove an old guy to the ground, they all of a sudden get balls. Fuck the blue line.

 

[ivwshane]

I hear you all and we’d like to think that we pay them well enough to put their lives on the line but by putting that expectation on people with guns we are creating an environment where the “good guys” shoot first. Cops are not heroes they are regular people and when we put unrealistic expectations on them we set them up for failure which is why they lack serious training in handling more challenging situations.

I agree with you. Except cops are paid and equipped to protect the public, which they almost always wuss out in doing. Driving around handing out speeding tickets and busting people for a minor amount of drugs doesn't justify their pay or cost. Love how they all got in their soldier cosplay outfits to stand around and yell at parents.

The only real solution is banning semi-auto guns. A more realistic improvement is raising the minimum age to at least 21 and holding any one that doesn't properly store their guns liable.

If you are not willing to risk your life as Police Officer to stop a school shooting in progress then you should seek a different profession.

They knew what they were getting into when they joined the police force. If they're scared for their lives then they need to find a new line of work.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Apparently the shooter was firing outside the school for 12 minutes prior entering?? I can’t get past the paywall.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1530002142483841030

 

[eelw]

.

The only real solution is banning semi-auto guns. A more realistic improvement is raising the minimum age to at least 21 and holding any one that doesn't properly store their guns liable.

What would it take to get the gun manufacturers liable? And not that tiny settlement recently. Something to bankrupt them

 

[Maxima1]

...

Ah, just remembered another good example with Australia's 1996 gun ban.

New gun ownership figures revealed 25 years on from Port Arthur

www.sydney.edu.au

• The proportion of Australian households with a firearm has fallen by 75 percent in recent decades.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0004867419872815

Now scroll down to graph of suicide rate over time. I'll go with the real world over studies that are easily confounded.

 

[Moonbeam]

His argument revolves around, criminals can defeat so it’s an inconvenience. Like yeah, no shit, that’s the whole point. What law abiding citizen has a compelling need to not be inconvenienced by the things he listed? There are none.

Since I may have made a mistake about what you and he are referring to as inconvenience let me see if I can get clarity. I see nothing about the two legislative efforts that passed the house that should be blocked for being inconvenient, but I feel the NY gun laws like the ones in California are absurd and intended to introduce as much inconvenience to owning a so called military style rifle as they can.

For one thing the AR 15 is a shitty weapon for killing people. It wasn't intended for that. Militarily, it was made to suppress enemy fire. It is also being abandoned by the military today. They are moving to a weapon with better killing power.

So if you are saying nothing inconvenient about trying to keep guns out of the hands of the hands of the crazies, I'm all for inconveniencing them, but what liberals at state level today are aiming for, are creating inconveniences only for law abiding gun owners. They do not care at all that for those willing to carry defensively, they can't outside the home and at home bring a knife to a gun fight. They can't practice self defense like so many people do in strong 2nd amendment states. You are putting all of the best offensive and defensive weapons, one and the same thing, in the hands of conservatives and it looks to me like, politically, they are feeling their oats. That may turn out to be liberal suicide by gun.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

No, I want one that reads the constitution as written and as every court in the US did until 2008.

Good luck. Whole bunch of conservatives want one who reads the constitution as written as of 1972. Legislation from the court bench is trash, always has been.

 

[Leeea]

which is why they lack serious training in handling more challenging situations

This is not always not the case.

Ex:
Gilroy CA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/07/29/multiple-people-reportedly-injured-shooting-california-food-festival/

A suspect with a weapon of war purchased out of state murdered 3 people before being cut down by Gilroy PD with handguns.


Average police officer salary Uvalde TX: $37,000
Average police officer salary in Gilroy CA: over a $100,000
( https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=gilroy&q=police+officer&y=&s=-gross&page=1 - look at the total pay column )


It is a matter of priorities. What is more important:
Low Taxes for the 1%?
Investing in ones own community?


As long as republicans have their way mass shootings are going to happen. But communities can reduce the number of dead if they want to.

 

[Maxima1]

Trying to pretend there's anything remotely 'scientific' about comparing suicide rates between completely different countries and societies is absurd. Comparisons of global suicide rates like that say nothing at all about the topic at hand.

You'd need to look at the effect of changes in the availability of means, within a given society/nation.

There's evidence that easy access to the means of suicide has an effect on overall suicide rates.

E.g. the switch from "town gas" to natural gas in the domestic gas supply here appeared to reduce the suicide rate.

I don't see anything wrong with comparison to other countries although there are better countries to look at than SK and Japan. A magnitude difference in risk factor for ownership is ludicrous, however. We can just compare US gun ownership and firearm suicides. Gun ownership is around 30-something to 40 in probably mostly rural shitholes, yet firearm suicide is just about half of total suicides.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/business/wonkblog/suicide-rates/

Separating out the role of guns in facilitating these suicides, in relation to an array of psychological and cultural factors, is difficult. One way to estimate the impact, according to experts on guns and suicide, is to analyze the U.S. suicide rate in comparison with similar countries.

Nobody knows what would happen if firearm availability in the United States resembled levels of other developed countries. But there’s widespread agreement among experts that the suicide rate would decline significantly. To illustrate this point, we calculated what would happen to the U.S. suicide rate if the percentage of suicides involving firearms were similar to that of four other Western countries (Australia, Canada, France and Britain) for which data is available.

Fifty percent of Americans who commit suicide do so with a gun. In our hypothetical, we assume that figure is just 9 percent — the average level of those four other Western countries. We then assumed the remaining 41 percent would try to commit suicide by other methods, such as suffocation or poisoning. Because none of these methods is as lethal as a gun, fewer people would succeed at committing suicide than if they used firearms. Of course, in reality, it’s possible some people in this 41 percent would not attempt suicide otherwise; we assume they all do to keep our estimate conservative.

We calculate that the total suicide rate would decline by 20 to 38 percent, depending on the alternative methods used. (You can read more about our methodology, which was endorsed by three top suicide and guns experts.)

 

[TheVrolok]

Nah, I'm the one noting the nuances. For example, the issue on the competing theories on gun ownership suicide shown in the article I linked or how impulsive people have less intent, and there is a significant portion of long-term suicidal people. The stat you want to defend comes across very unreasonable because the UK is quite close to the US for suicide (with similar mental illness rate) despite gun ownership being not nearly as widespread and much more restricted. Culture being significantly different (UK is not the only one) as a defense sounds like horseshit when that factor of owning supposedly raises risk by 10x. The more reasonable conclusion is many suicides in the US would be substituted if the guns were taken away. It would be lower, but not to the extent suggested by 10x for all households with gun ownership.

Except that's literally not what the data shows. You keep drawing conclusions and calling them reasonable when they're anything but. What you really should be saying is "this conclusion FEELS right to me." Unfortunately, though, being comfortable with a conclusion can have little correlation with it being logically sound.

You're arguing against "guns dramatically increase risk of successful suicide" by arguing "guns don't cause suicide as much as I think they should!" It's not just a strawman, it's an emotional anecdote about a strawman. I know you see those arguments as equivalent or "basically the same" but they aren't at all.

 

[Exterous]

Really not sure what we’re paying many cops for at this point.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529891557817589761

I'm not sure why everyone is so hard on the cops here. They had their hands full dealing with an unruly and emotional mob of unarmed parents who were trying to interfere with a crazed person's expression of constitutionally guaranteed gun rights

She said she was one of numerous parents who began encouraging—first politely, and then with more urgency—police and other law enforcement to enter the school sooner. After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for intervening in an active investigation.

Ms. Gomez described the scene as frantic. She said she saw a father tackled and thrown to the ground by police and a third pepper-sprayed. Once freed from her cuffs, Ms. Gomez made her distance from the crowd, jumped the school fence, and ran inside to grab her two children. She sprinted out of the school with them.

Videos circulated on social media Wednesday and Thursday of frantic family members trying to get access to Robb Elementary as the attack was unfolding, some of them yelling at police who blocked them from entering.

I can't even imagine watching police on the scene do nothing for an hour while a gunman could be killing your children unimpeded inside a building

 

[TheVrolok]

I'm not sure why everyone is so hard on the cops here. They had their hands full dealing with an unruly and emotional mob of unarmed parents who were trying to interfere with a crazed person's expression of constitutionally guaranteed gun rights





I can't even imagine watching police on the scene do nothing for an hour while a gunman could be killing your children unimpeded inside a building

It's very possible I would have been shot by police in these circumstances.

 

[Zorba]

Good luck. Whole bunch of conservatives want one who reads the constitution as written as of 1972. Legislation from the court bench is trash, always has been.

So you believe the second amendment has nothing to do with protecting a free state, being part of a militia, and allows any and all types of guns to be owned without restriction?

But somehow other weapons, like brass knuckles, aren't protected...

I'm pretty sure a semi auto ban would be in line with Heller, any ways.

 

[HomerJS]

Posting from Australia... the answer is no. But Australia never had your scale of indigenous resistance in colonisation, nor have we had a civil war, nor the religious overtones with its first settlements.

America is weird. A bible in one hand. A gun in the other. Oil and water. How the fark you guys somehow manages to mix the two is incomprehensible to the rest of the outside world.

My knowledge of the history of America is woeful, so my apologies if I have stepped on toes.

This country needs more doses of truth about itself.

 

[Kaido]

Not sure when our timeline forked into the dystopian future but YIKES

 

[TheVrolok]

Not sure when our timeline forked into the dystopian future but YIKES

View attachment 62191

Jesus Christ.

 

[Brovane]

I hear you all and we’d like to think that we pay them well enough to put their lives on the line but by putting that expectation on people with guns we are creating an environment where the “good guys” shoot first. Cops are not heroes they are regular people and when we put unrealistic expectations on them we set them up for failure which is why they lack serious training in handling more challenging situations.

I agree with Beau. "Nothing else is acceptable"

Let's talk about cops waiting outside, Rule 303, and the way....