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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,125
30,517
136
It doesn't have to be said. The overall condescension is palpable. I might provide examples if I had the time and thought it would change anything.
It doesn't have to be said, I know what everyone else is thinking. They're all thinking insane things.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,851
136
Seriously? That's a pretty dark view of humanity. I want to see us all as a whole of sorts, we "literally" are that, a race of people that hopefully will get a collective brain before we all kill each other. And certainly I'm cognizant that my truth is my own and not perfect. I wish it was, it would help my ego tremendously.

No, what I meant was that you said the problem is that some people believe one person or party has a lock on objective truth. I don't think anyone actually holds that belief.

I mean people might think that about a deity, but no person.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It's funny and increasingly tragic how each side wants to blame the other while totally absolving themselves of any accountability whatsoever. If we can't come together, the system will stay just the way it is, which no doubt suits those whom it serves. I'm betting on more of the same, guys.

Blame? I credit right wing propagandists for their intense FUD campaign spanning decades. Trump voters didn't get to be the way they are overnight or by accident, either.

He saw this assemblage of terribly disinformed, confused & bitter people as a vehicle to fulfill his ambitions & used it accordingly, just better than his Repub rivals. He captured the "Fuck You!" spirit of the Repub base & rode it to victory with more than a little help from the Repub propaganda machine, the Alt-right troll brigades & the Russians as well.
He carried off the greatest con job in the history of American politics.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,580
2,150
146
No, what I meant was that you said the problem is that some people believe one person or party has a lock on objective truth. I don't think anyone actually holds that belief.

I mean people might think that about a deity, but no person.
Okay, thanks. I think what I was trying to convey is that many individuals labor beneath the mistaken impression that their truth is much superior to that of any other, and that their chosen identities and groupings are self-evidently superior to those of others, who then can be characterized as obviously inferior.
 
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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Well, there's closer to reality and further from it.

It's a bit of a horseshoes rules situation.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,580
2,150
146
Blame? I credit right wing propagandists for their intense FUD campaign spanning decades. Trump voters didn't get to be the way they are overnight or by accident, either.

He saw this assemblage of terribly disinformed, confused & bitter people as a vehicle to fulfill his ambitions & used it accordingly, just better than his Repub rivals. He captured the "Fuck You!" spirit of the Repub base & rode it to victory with more than a little help from the Repub propaganda machine, the Alt-right troll brigades & the Russians as well.
He carried off the greatest con job in the history of American politics.
You're not all wrong, but like so many of us, you want to take half the narrative and stretch it out to cover the parts you don't want to face.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,133
30,084
146
It's funny and increasingly tragic how each side wants to blame the other while totally absolving themselves of any accountability whatsoever. If we can't come together, the system will stay just the way it is, which no doubt suits those whom it serves. I'm betting on more of the same, guys.


This is the reality of the situation:


Until the "other side" picks up its own massive, overweight pile of shit, no further, effective conversations can happen. "both sides do it!" = utter horseshit.
 
Reactions: ivwshane

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Okay, thanks. I think what I was trying to convey is that many individuals labor beneath the mistaken impression that their truth is much superior to that of any other, and that their chosen identities and groupings are self-evidently superior to those of others, who then can be characterized as obviously inferior.

You merely promote the notion that objective truth doesn't exist, something Trump exploited masterfully. All bullshit artists do the same thing, whether they're selling Arizona oceanfront, preconstruction contracts for Trump Baja or trickle down economic ideology.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,580
2,150
146
Between Crash and TLC, condescension is thick in these parts.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off that way. I'm a guy without a party. I almost feel like a guy without a country anymore. You guys don't like what I'm saying, my conservative acquaintances don't like it either. I just can't shake the feeling that things are getting worse in a positive-feedback loop kind of very bad way.

I just wish I could do something about it.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,580
2,150
146
You merely promote the notion that objective truth doesn't exist, something Trump exploited masterfully. All bullshit artists do the same thing, whether they're selling Arizona oceanfront, preconstruction contracts for Trump Baja or trickle down economic ideology.
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
I'm sorry, I don't mean to come off that way. I'm a guy without a party. I almost feel like a guy without a country anymore. You guys don't like what I'm saying, my conservative acquaintances don't like it either. I just can't shake the feeling that things are getting worse in a positive-feedback loop kind of very bad way.

I just wish I could do something about it.
It's your shit tone I don't like, as I said.

You're above it all with a great view of the whole thing and it's so messy beneath you... and your perspective offers no answers. So why should we care what you have to say, especially given your shit tone?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.

I don't think you're a bullshit artist. I think you've decided to be a committed centrist, and in order to do that, you've had to convince yourself of something that isn't really true, the notion that both sides are roughly the same. As someone who has proven himself more than capable of criticizing liberals and democrats, having done so on a near daily basis for going on 10 years on P&N, I can tell you that both sides are most assuredly not the same. For example, there is far more willingness among liberals to question stories and information which confirm their beliefs than there is with conservatives. Both sides are overly credulous to such information, but conservatives are many fold worse.

Eski is right. It's time that people who view themselves as centrists and independents start to acknowledge this. It doesn't make you a "liberal" to acknowledge such a thing. It just makes you correct.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.
When you talk a lot and say nothing you are aptly described as such.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,125
30,517
136
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.
They are not difficult to find.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,580
2,150
146
It's your shit tone I don't like, as I said.

You're above it all with a great view of the whole thing and it's so messy beneath you... and your perspective offers no answers. So why should we care what you have to say, especially given your shit tone?
You shouldn't. I'll take my "shit tone" and move on down the road. I don't think I'm the right person to articulate what I believe needs to be said.

I do appreciate the opportunity to be heard, though. Thanks.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,125
30,517
136
You shouldn't. I'll take my "shit tone" and move on down the road. I don't think I'm the right person to articulate what I believe needs to be said.

I do appreciate the opportunity to be heard, though. Thanks.
We understand what you think you are trying to say just fine. Nobody gives a shit right now what problems the Democrats have because many of them are false, whether they are projections or just completely fabricated. Many of the problems that are true are fucking petty and/or superficial, especially compared to the problems with the GOP right now. Mostly though, people don't give a shit because at this point in time, Democrats have almost no power, so any problems they may have do not matter. They are irrelevant. The only people discussing them are distracting from the actual problems we are all facing today, at this very moment, so at worst you are a complicit bag of shit willfully helping the GOP to fleece the shit out of America, or at best you are a useful idiot unwittingly helping the GOP to fleece the shit out of America.
 
Reactions: jackstar7

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.

I can absolutely appreciate what you're saying and the blame game certainly plays a role in identifying with one party over the other but what I am seeing a lot of these days is "Country over Party". Yes it's the Left screaming it the loudest currently but this isn't blame, the evidence is abundant. The shift is real. Dems are fairly grossed out by their representation but remain progressive. Make America Great Again infers it's not now but once was. The Republican Party is openly and unapologetically asking for the people to regress without debate or obstruction. By definition progress is moving forward.

Can't We All Just Get Along... sadly, the answer is no. It can't be overlooked that many progressives were shocked, rightly or wrongly, to discover so many of the opposition's point of view is so far from their own. I honestly cried when Trump won, not because of him but because I had obviously insulated myself to the degree of hate that would elect this man.

The Parties have worked together better in the past... worse and worse as time marches on but this truly isn't the time to make concessions. Democracy is on the line and the right side though possibly uncomfortable with it are opting for complicity.

To engage in a conversation such as the one you are trying to initiate or instigate the Left will absolutely have to see evidence that the right is standing up for Democracy. I believe the Left can still see the center line but the right has turned its back to it.
 
Reactions: jackstar7

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Objective truths DO exist, it's just that they're a bit difficult to find in political discourse. I'm sorry you seem to see me as a "bullshit artist." Ironically, I view myself as exactly the opposite. I know I'm wrong about some things, but I promise not to intentionally lie to anyone here.

It wasn't intended to be taken that way. Had you put "truth" in quotes I'd have understood you better.
 
Reactions: crashtech

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I can absolutely appreciate what you're saying and the blame game certainly plays a role in identifying with one party over the other but what I am seeing a lot of these days is "Country over Party". Yes it's the Left screaming it the loudest currently but this isn't blame, the evidence is abundant. The shift is real. Dems are fairly grossed out by their representation but remain progressive. Make America Great Again infers it's not now but once was. The Republican Party is openly and unapologetically asking for the people to regress without debate or obstruction. By definition progress is moving forward.

Can't We All Just Get Along... sadly, the answer is no. It can't be overlooked that many progressives were shocked, rightly or wrongly, to discover so many of the opposition's point of view is so far from their own. I honestly cried when Trump won, not because of him but because I had obviously insulated myself to the degree of hate that would elect this man.

The Parties have worked together better in the past... worse and worse as time marches on but this truly isn't the time to make concessions. Democracy is on the line and the right side though possibly uncomfortable with it are opting for complicity.

To engage in a conversation such as the one you are trying to initiate or instigate the Left will absolutely have to see evidence that the right is standing up for Democracy. I believe the Left can still see the center line but the right has turned its back to it.

The Repub base is so confused, fucked up & frustrated that all they can say is "Screw You!" to the ROTW. Their leadership rendered them that way with relentless agitprop coupled with top down class warfare. They also stupefied & turned off a lot of people with endless conspiracy theory & innuendo about Hillary & the Dems. Witness the ongoing efforts of the Bernie bots.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Okay, thanks. I think what I was trying to convey is that many individuals labor beneath the mistaken impression that their truth is much superior to that of any other, and that their chosen identities and groupings are self-evidently superior to those of others, who then can be characterized as obviously inferior.
You're wasting your breath in here dude. Many of the left in here will jump over you if you even imply they might have some faults or made some poor decisions in the political domain. If you are a lefty as well you will be branded a traitor or some sort of GOP sycophant. You will be called all sorts of nasty names and be subjected to personal attacks as well. This is the same left that allegedly promotes freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Clearly though they are a bunch of authoritarian tools without the first clue about how the world really works outside of their tiny, closed minds.

So don't bother. Stay clear of their political circle jerk.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
You're wasting your breath in here dude. Many of the left in here will jump over you if you even imply they might have some faults or made some poor decisions in the political domain. If you are a lefty as well you will be branded a traitor or some sort of GOP sycophant. You will be called all sorts of nasty names and be subjected to personal attacks as well. This is the same left that allegedly promotes freedom of speech and freedom of thought. Clearly though they are a bunch of authoritarian tools without the first clue about how the world really works outside of their tiny, closed minds.

So don't bother. Stay clear of their political circle jerk.
Yeah but freedom to be rambling, ignorant, hateful, automatons pushes the limits. Do programmed beings have freedoms? But even still you prove regularly, Ignorance gonna ignoRant and there's nothing any of us can do about it. That's a win for you I suppose.

I bolded those words 'cause I wanted to. It was fun!
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
Yeah but freedom to be rambling, ignorant, hateful, automatons pushes the limits. Do programmed beings have freedoms? But even still you prove regularly, Ignorance gonna ignoRant and there's nothing any of us can do about it. That's a win for you I suppose.

I bolded those words 'cause I wanted to. It was fun!
You bolded the words because it describes your lame attempts to engage me, newb. But you're a complete moron with zero class and no style whatsoever. You should sit back and learn from some of the old-timers in here instead of posting your spittle-filled tripe. It might serve you well in the future but I really don't see much hope for you. You seem to lack any real response talent whatsoever.

Laterz homez.
 
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