That's a touchy one though, if Trump starts pardoning people who are about to be indicted over their conduct with a hostile foreign power he probably dramatically increases his own chances of impeachment. Additionally if they were pardoned wouldn't that void their 5th amendment protections so they could be compelled to testify?
I guess it depends on how damning the 'flipping' information would be, but pardoning people seems to have a lot of negative consequences as well.
If that were to happen how many republicans would stand by his side?
My guess is, probably enough such that the Senate would never vote to remove him from office, even if he's impeached by the House. Their argument will be that the pardon power is granted by the Constitution, so using it can't be obstruction of justice.
Trump does things that other POTUSes would never do, consequences be damned. I suppose it could increase his chance of impeachment, in theory, but with this Congress it doesn't seem likely. So far as them being compelled to testify, sure, if they can no longer incriminate themselves. Yet they'd probably just lie. They are friends and allies of Trump. They have no reason to ever implicate him unless it is to save their own skins, and the pardon takes care of that.
Trump does things that other POTUSes would never do, consequences be damned. I suppose it could increase his chance of impeachment, in theory, but with this Congress it doesn't seem likely. So far as them being compelled to testify, sure, if they can no longer incriminate themselves. Yet they'd probably just lie. They are friends and allies of Trump. They have no reason to ever implicate him unless it is to save their own skins, and the pardon takes care of that.
A
I'd be amazed if Trump ever survives these investigations. But then he is mercurial, he is a fighter and he lies better than anybody I've ever known in my lifetime.
Any day now . . .
We should really have a thread betting on how long it takes the progressive left to start blaming the lack of indictments on big corporations and International Jewry.
Mueller won't lay down the hammer until he has completed all investigations which include collusion, obstruction of justice, money laundering and anything else he comes across.
it may not even be this year, i'd say 2018 is far more likely.
btw, this isn't a "progressive left" issue, treason affects every American.
See, when you guys throw around the treason word I'm no longer sure whether it's Trump Derangement Syndrome or like all those kids discussing the coming zombie apocalypse, where everything that happens is evidence of a massive coverup but in the end, they don't really believe it.Mueller won't lay down the hammer until he has completed all investigations which include collusion, obstruction of justice, money laundering and anything else he comes across.
it may not even be this year, i'd say 2018 is far more likely.
btw, this isn't a "progressive left" issue, treason affects every American.
See, when you guys throw around the treason word I'm no longer sure whether it's Trump Derangement Syndrome or like all those kids discussing the coming zombie apocalypse, where everything that happens is evidence of a massive coverup but in the end, they don't really believe it.
See, when you guys throw around the treason word I'm no longer sure whether it's Trump Derangement Syndrome or like all those kids discussing the coming zombie apocalypse, where everything that happens is evidence of a massive coverup but in the end, they don't really believe it.
Wait - so EVERYBODY who doesn't believe that Trump conspired with Russia to win the election is guilty of treason?i absolutely believe there was collusion between several in team Trump and Russia based on all the publicly known facts. you either don't believe collusion happened or you're guilty of treason, it's just that simple.
the only derangement i see is those who continue to support Trump, despite reality and facts (not just Russia collusion)
Wait - so EVERYBODY who doesn't believe that Trump conspired with Russia to win the election is guilty of treason?
Dang, those zombie apocalypse kids suddenly look sane and sensible.
Way to keep the spirit of the Hitler Youth alive by displaying your willingness to sacrifice your "parents and plenty of other relatives" to the purity of the cause.treason - the crime of betraying one's country
EVERYBODY who voted for Trump is guilty of exactly that, whether they realize it or not. btw, that includes my parents and plenty of other relatives.
not sure what your zombie apocalypse obsession is though.
Just for grins and giggles: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
I know posting the actual legal definition of treason is useless to those in the throws of Trump Derangement Syndrome, but for the rest of us it's worth noting that maybe a quarter of the nation firmly believes that the other three-quarters is guilty of a crime for which the penalty is potentially death. Even having suffered through eight years of Obama Derangement Syndrome with probably an equal percentage of our population, which exceeded Bush Derangement Syndrome and even Reagan Derangement Syndrome, that's sobering. Especially given that these deranged individuals extend the definition of our enemies to include nations with which we are nominally at peace, when it's politically advantageous to do so.
18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
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Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)
Way to keep the spirit of the Hitler Youth alive by displaying your willingness to sacrifice your "parents and plenty of other relatives" to the purity of the cause.
Listen guys I didn't vote Trump nor do I see it being possible that I'd ever vote Trump on his current course but do I think people who voted for Trump are treasonous? He'll no, this is exactly the type of dissent the Russians wanted to happen to President Hillary Clinton.
It already existed.Listen guys I didn't vote Trump nor do I see it being possible that I'd ever vote Trump on his current course but do I think people who voted for Trump are treasonous? He'll no, this is exactly the type of dissent the Russians wanted to happen to President Hillary Clinton.
Listen guys I didn't vote Trump nor do I see it being possible that I'd ever vote Trump on his current course but do I think people who voted for Trump are treasonous? He'll no, this is exactly the type of dissent the Russians wanted to happen to President Hillary Clinton.
I hate to bring up nazis but I can't think of a better example. When Hitler rose to power and Germanys citizens okayed what he did and continued to support him through the war, in hindsight were they traitors? Does not getting in the way and voting/supporting politicians whose policies allowed for Hitler's rise and allowed their fellow citizens to be killed by government make them traitors? If not then what would you call people who not only allowed Hitler to happen but also supported politicians that enabled the nazi party to rise to power and to kill off other political parties?
I'm not interested in waiting for the next Hitler to start killing people before I say, "whoa! That's going too far", are you?
What's happening now is a real attack on our democracy.
We have a party that is actively rigging elections to ensure they maintain power.
We have a party that is actively trying to stifle science and education.
We have a party that purposely failed to do its duty to confirm or deny a supreme court justice.
We have a president that is actively demonizing groups of people (Muslims, illegal immigrants).
We have a president who won't even acknowledge that a foreign government tried to meddle in our election.
We had a presidential candidate who questioned our election's integrity when it looked like he was going to lose.
We have a president who actively demonizes the press which is a safe guard to ensuring our democracy is legitimate.
We have businesses who support the above and who are actively pushing propaganda and lies and reinforcing the above president.
Worst of all, we have a large populace who supports the above uncritically.
If you don't call the above attack on our democracy treason, then I'm not sure what you would call it.
Make no mistake, the alarm bells are ringing.