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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,736
40,168
136
C'mon Dump, prove you and Flynn aren't full of shit. De-classify the tapes of Flynn and Kislyak and put all this 'fake news' to rest so you can get back to all that winning.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
3,130
136
You mean I can't express my opinion without you wanting me to leave?

Your ilk is precisely what has become wrong with this forum. 'Feel free to express your opinion, so long as it aligns with the majority in here. If not, leave, mofo.'

Congrats on proving my point so well. /thumbsup

Edit: btw, I probably despise Trump more than you do. But pointing at a douche while being a douche does people little service.

hey dumbass, you came in this thread and attacked posters in it and the P&N forum in general without even saying a word about the actual topic of the thread.

you then complain when a mirror is put in front of your face.

do you really not see your problem here?
 
Reactions: UberNeuman
Feb 4, 2009
35,245
16,713
136
Lots of nervous tweeting this morning from the deflector in chief. Wonder what the big deal is?

I read Lynch is going into the Senate (the less Trump friendly) Comittee to talk about what was known about Flynn and when it was communicated to team Trump
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Along with Trump, his adherents, and a large percentage of the lefties in here.

Man, P&N has become so unhinged it isn't even funny any more. The morons that now infest this place are as scary, or even scarier, than Trump, only on the opposite end of the spectrum. The scary part is, like Trump, they don't even seem to realize it.

This sub-forum has gone to complete shite.
Interesting in that it's barely that.

The name calling absolutely occurs but I find beyond that the majority of the people on this forum take a lot of pride in informing themselves and giving reasoned statements or opinions. I have also seen that the conservatives who deign to grace us with their presence rarely want to engage in reasonable conversation and resort to name calling as well, often right out of the gate. They generally spew talk that is divisive of the nation (US) and in the world and come with no hope to convert through reason but to hate and taunt and belittle. Of course they are met with like responses.

I would willingly have an intellectual conversation with someone who opposes my beliefs but I have rarely run across the conservative on this forum willing or even capable... they mostly stick to their anger and name calling. But then anyone who starts from a place of segregation, self-interest at any cost and a lack of empathy because the feels are stupid, would find it difficult to interact with an intellectual perspective.

No one wants to be told they are wrong but many of the conservatives who come here seem to implode and become more unintelligible as they continue when they are told they are wrong. Many of the regular users here appear instead to take the challenge of being told they are wrong not only with name calling but with an abundance of corroborating materials from reputable sources.

I said all of the above to get to this conclusion... I love this forum. It is not shite, weirdo!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Along with Trump, his adherents, and a large percentage of the lefties in here.

Man, P&N has become so unhinged it isn't even funny any more. The morons that now infest this place are as scary, or even scarier, than Trump, only on the opposite end of the spectrum. The scary part is, like Trump, they don't even seem to realize it.

This sub-forum has gone to complete shite.

It's been awhile, huh?

First off, I think it's a mistake to accept qliveur's assessment of anybody's sanity.

It's also a mistake to think that some of the opinions here are scarier than Trump simply because they have no power & likely never will. Trump, otoh, wields enormous power.

It's interesting to note how you've defended most things conservative for years, even as your compatriots have charged further right the whole while. Where did you think they were headed other than Trumpistan?

Why Conservatives Are Still Crazy After All These Years | Rolling Stone
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
If I were well-aligned with conservative views overall, I would stifle even moderated viewpoints. I am much more cautious here making posts which align with conservatives and have many times received attacks rather than dialog when I do so. Even if you restrict yourself to flaming radical blowhards, you communicate danger to those who might not be so radical. I think this place would benefit from a lot more tact.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Sally Yates is delivering right now, you should watch.
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,694
8,897
146
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.
You realize the clearances Flynn had through the Obama admin pale in comparison to what should have been done before he was appointed NSA right? And that they didn't fire him when they found out but waited almost three weeks until the story was leaked? Even then they Blamed It on the left as some kind of liberal witch hunt by the media? That he participated in several sensitive briefings and meetings before he was fired and after Yates informed them? That they lied about what they were told by Yates? It wasn't a casual heads up it was the strictest concern that he was severely exposed?
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

That's some funny stuff right there. Are you vying for Spicer's job?
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,245
16,713
136
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

Are you insane? Took them 18 days to fire him plus nearly all of that time he was sitting in on Security meetings. Obama Fired him in 2014, its customary that Generals keep their security clearance. Flynn even was warned by the Military that he can't take money from Foreign Governments friendly or unfriendly (essentially I can't remember the exact words)
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
You realize the clearances Flynn had through the Obama admin pale in comparison to what should have been done before he was appointed NSA right? And that they didn't fire him when they found out but waited almost three weeks until the story was leaked? Even then they Blamed It on the left as some kind of liberal witch hunt by the media? That he participated in several sensitive briefings and meetings before he was fired and after Yates informed them? That they lied about what they were told by Yates? It wasn't a casual heads up it was the strictest concern that he was severely exposed?

The 3 week delay is... interesting, given that Flynn got dumped only after the story leaked... at which point the Admin went on a witch hunt for "national security leakers"...

The doublespeak in that is astounding.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.
Ya just hear things how you want to hear them eh? Tell me, have you ever received a genuine compliment in your life? If so please share so that I might laugh at the real intent of the words and how you perceived them. Come on, play along it'll be fun!
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
3,130
136
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

quite a bit actually, like the details and timing of her meetings in the White House with Trump's legal council. she also destroyed Ted Cruz, it was quite satisfying to see that soulless partisan hack get destroyed. if it were not for the leaks to the Washington Post, Michael Flynn would still be the National Security Advisor. most of the Republicans, with the exception of Ben Sass and Lindsey Graham, completely ignored the subject of today's hearing, and that was Russia attacking our electorate.

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

so Trump ignored Obama's warning to not hire Flynn because his opinion didn't matter and now it suddenly does? straight bullshit right there. the simple fact is that the security clearance that Flynn had did not qualify him to be the National Security Advisor. there are literally thousands of people with the very same clearance and by your Trump logic, they were all qualified to be the NSA. it's bullshit and reality is that it was Trump who was responsible for the vetting of Michael Flynn.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

and he didn't have the access to the ongoing FBI investigation that Yates did and her response was not the same.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
It's been awhile, huh?

First off, I think it's a mistake to accept qliveur's assessment of anybody's sanity.

It's also a mistake to think that some of the opinions here are scarier than Trump simply because they have no power & likely never will. Trump, otoh, wields enormous power.

It's interesting to note how you've defended most things conservative for years, even as your compatriots have charged further right the whole while. Where did you think they were headed other than Trumpistan?

Why Conservatives Are Still Crazy After All These Years | Rolling Stone
I don't defend conservatives. I berate liberals. I am conservative in very few ways. I'm a liberal in many, many ways, and was liberal long before most of the college boys and millennials that infest this place from top to bottom.

The problem here is that the lefties in the forum can't take any sort of criticism because they are so cock-sure and absolutely self-righteous. They are the mirror image of their perceived enemies yet don't realize it. I despise what the left has become. As such I will continue to berate them as I see fit because they deserve it. Will it change anything? Of course not. The self-righteous have no desire to change because they perceive no need to do so. So post on, Jhhnn. No doubt you see no need to change anything.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
I don't defend conservatives. I berate liberals. I am conservative in very few ways. I'm a liberal in many, many ways, and was liberal long before most of the college boys and millennials that infest this place from top to bottom.

The problem here is that the lefties in the forum can't take any sort of criticism because they are so cock-sure and absolutely self-righteous. They are the mirror image of their perceived enemies yet don't realize it. I despise what the left has become. As such I will continue to berate them as I see fit because they deserve it. Will it change anything? Of course not. The self-righteous have no desire to change because they perceive no need to do so. So post on, Jhhnn. No doubt you see no need to change anything.

All you're doing is berating those that speak out instead of discussing the merit of that being spoke of...

Must be rough white knighting the indefensible.....
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
All you're doing is berating those that speak out instead of discussing the merit of that being spoke of...

Must be rough white knighting the indefensible.....
Speak out? lol. Yeah, you guys are such outspoken rebels. Trump is a douche, a moron, an idiot? You don't say? What other gems of undiscovered knowledge do you have to present? Are there any barn doors you haven't taken aim at yet?

Get over yourselves. That's the message I'm sending. But you and some others in here don't seem to get it.

Don't focus on Trump. Who fugging cares? He'll continue to step on his own small manhood. Focus on the ills of the left and fix them, then boot the moron out the next election. That is how the ship will be righted.
 
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Reactions: Azuma Hazuki

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,220
605
126
Here is a conservative account of this mini-history. He documents facts (and facts only) separately which is helpful to make up your own minds as to whether there is smoke. I do appreciate that there is someone who keeps track of this sort of thing.

http://www.redstate.com/diary/truefreak/2017/04/20/trussian-timeline-whats-factspeculation/

TO START, THE FACTS

IN 2013, the FBI and other agencies discovered the presence of three Russian spies working to recruit Carter Page, a former Gazprom employee and advisor. While the success of that effort is unclear, Page has affirmed he is “US Person 1.”

IN AUGUST 2015, surrounded by a cloud of rancor, Roger Stone left the trump campaign after only a couple of months. Stone, later admitting contact with the primary hacker in the election scandal, had been a personal friend of trump’s going back three decades. Stone is also a lobbying partner of Paul Manafort, marking an early connection to Manafort, long before his official employment by the campaign.

IN DECEMBER 2015, Page travelled to Russia, and again in 2016, slamming US foreign policy, sanctions, and praising Russia’s energy potential. During the winter, Britain’s GHCQ and other foreign agencies in Australia, Estonia, Poland and Germany began intercepting communications that involved trump’s name and the coming election. They forwarded this information to the US authorities. Page’s speech in July 2016 was noteworthy because the FBI already had him on their radar from 2013 and this new intel, and he was the subject of a FISA warrant based on credible suspicions and intercepts, combined with his history. Incidentally, Page also seemed to know the name of Rex Tillerson as an option for Secretary of State, many months before America did, and presumably trump himself. Tillerson had just entered retirement after a long, successful career at Exxon. He had spent years advocating for the repeal of sanctions on Russia which killed a $500 billion oil field they’d been working on with Russian oil company, Rosneft, and previously served as board director for a Russian/Exxon oil company based in the Bahamas. Page praised Tillerson’s unique status of “Official Order of Friendship,” the highest Russian honor a foreign citizen can receive from the president.

IN MARCH 2016, Moscow instructed state backed media outlets, including former Michael Flynn employer RT, to publish more trump-friendly stories. March 29, Paul Manafort officially joined trump campaign.



IN JUNE 2016, a Russian think tank, the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, staffed by intelligence officials appointed by President Vladimir Putin issued a report concluding that a trump victory was in their county’s best interest. The report outlined a detailed social media campaign that would employ the use of websites and bots to sway voter impressions.

IN JULY 2016, the GOP convention, organized in large part by Paul Manafort, made several changes to the party platform, including a major alteration in Ukraine policy. No one has claimed credit for these changes. At this same convention, several trump officials met with Russia’s top diplomat, Sergey Kislyak, presumably in a social setting. However, no one disclosed these meetings, despite Russian intervention being a major story at the time. This same month, trump looked to the cameras at a press conference and invited the Russian government to hack more emails and find Hillary’s “missing 33,000 emails.”

IN SEPTEMBER 2016, then-Sen Sessions met again with Kislyak, and discussed “several issues,” which included Ukraine policy and sanctions. Note that Sessions, although a Senator, had no other interests in Russia, and was not chairman of the committee he claimed to be communicating for. Nothing else was determined. This same month, ABC reported that Russian hackers were targeting digitized voter registration systems. In fact, the FBI issued a warning to all state election offices that hackers were trying to break through, and had succeeded in some places. These intrusions went into voter information, not actual voting equipment.

In October 2016, a second document by the Russian intel think tank advocated a switch to amplifying the rumor of voter fraud, when it was assumed Clinton was going to win. The timing of Trumps insistence on this is probably coincidental, but still odd.

In December 2016, post-election, trumps son in law, Jared Kushner, and future NSA chief Michael Flynn met with several Russian officials, and had discussions regarding sanctions, Ukraine policy and other geopolitical issues. These meetings happened at trump tower. Neither man disclosed these meetings, although if they were innocuous, you wonder why. Kushner also met with the head of Vnesheconombank, a Russian bank, led by a former Russian security officer, which had been financing the Rosneft/Exxon deal years earlier, and is currently under US sanctions. These events were observed by US intel doing work on foreign agents.

IN JANUARY 2017, trump announced his cabinet picks, including – Shockingly? – Tillerson for Sec of State and Wilber Ross for Commerce Sec. Ross was a business partner of the principal owner of Russia’s largest oil company, Rosneft. He was also vice chairman of Bank of Cyprus, the bank long suspected of helping to launder billions in Russian oligarch money. Both of these cabinet secretaries have personal, financial interest in sanctions being lifted. Tillerson alone has over $200 million in Exxon stock. This same month, Erik Prince, brother of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, met with a Russian envoy, facilitated by the Prince of the United Arab Emirates. The intent was to establish a back channel of communication between the world leaders. It was also at this time the DOJ informed the trump team that Flynn had been picked up in December on intercepts of foreign calls, discussing sanctions. Flynn adamantly denied this. He continued to operate as the National Security Advisor, despite the trump team knowing of his dishonesty. Flynn resigned weeks later, but only after an incessant news cycle begun by a Washington Post story revealing the dishonesty.

IN FEBRUARY, Attorney General Sessions recused himself from any investigations after it was revealed that he met twice, once publicly, and privately with Russia’s top diplomat during the election, despite denying contact during his confirmation hearings. He admitted the sloppiness of his answers, and apologized, before recusing himself. He also confirmed they discussed Ukraine “and other issues,” but not the election. The story of Russian propaganda was a major story at the time of their meeting, but Sessions says it never came up.

IN MARCH, House Rep David Nunes, as chairman of the House Intel cmte, was called to the White House late at night to review intel regarding which government agents looked into trump investigations. The next day, he returned to the White House to “reveal” to the president what he had discovered… at the White House. The oddity of the ordeal led to his recusal from the House investigation into trump’s Russia connections. Yes, for those that are counting, that’s one firing/resignation and two high ranking recusals after only a month of the presidency. At the end of the month, testimony at a senate intel cmte hearing reveals that intel agencies observed the Russian campaign to include hacking leaks favorably to trump, dozens of fake news websites, instruction to state media to run trump-friendly stories, and a concerted social media effort both through hyper targeting of anti-Clinton propaganda and thousands of paid bots to roam Twitter and Facebook to support trump and attack Clinton.

IN APRIL, Ukraine media and elected leadership reported confirmation of not only a financial ledger, but also bank transactions previously denied by Paul Manafort for lobbying work he had done on behalf of Russian interests in Ukraine election influence. After initially denying it, he now admits the transactions occurred but dismissed the implication of a connection to the election. Some articles reveal that Manafort waged a lobbying effort for months, including personal visits, phone calls and letters delivered to trump, wanting to be part of the trump campaign.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

dealing honestly with the reality on the ground: I have come to find that GOPers or those who call themselves conservatives aren't really interested in that. Or they simply have no idea how to work with facts that contradict their core beliefs. This is why you guys are terrified by science.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,218
10,875
136
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.
Two weeks later, and he sat in on Putin's and Trump's phone call. It's obvious you and the Trump administration know zilch about vetting. It's really sad that the go to excuse for this amateur hour administration is it's always Obama's fault. Talk about taking responsibility. To quote "Sad"
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Sally Yates is delivering right now, you should watch.
People who expect these things to happen overnight are ignorant of history.

Watergate took 2 years. It's only been 100 days.


Okay, so this is the functional equivalent of the "$5 gas is coming" thread where it's something that may happen at some undetermined future point but you have no evidence or reason to believe it's going to happen imminently and it's just as likely it never will. Just want to level-set the thread properly as aspirational wish "indictments are coming? (I hope)" rather than actual news (e.g. Trump will be indicted this Friday).

After all, when the OP started off the thread with "It may get reported in the MSM soon. It's extensive enough that through the line of succession, it may be Orrin Hatch" you could see where one could be a tiny bit skeptical. Although if we see a Watergate style event and subsequent inauguration of Orrin Hatch then I'll gladly come back here and eat my words.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Speak out? lol. Yeah, you guys are such outspoken rebels. Trump is a douche, a moron, an idiot? You don't say? What other gems of undiscovered knowledge do you have to present? Are there any barn doors you haven't taken aim at yet?

Get over yourselves. That's the message I'm sending. But you and some others in here don't seem to get it.

Don't focus on Trump. Who fugging cares? He'll continue to step on his own small manhood. Focus on the ills of the left and fix them, then boot the moron out the next election. That is how the ship will be righted.

So you want to enable him. Great work, you raging liberal.
 
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